List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[HereComesJuddy]

I worry about our lack of midfield depth. I believe you need at least 2 - 3 solid back ups.

Were you worried about it at the start of our 2024 season? Or just now???

 

[HarryFlashman]

Might be drawing a long bow but I wonder if this is LM way of forcing more games into Binns, Lord, Wilson, Moir etc.

Your strength can become your weakness. Despite our injuries, we put solid players out there every week last year. But it meant the young guys didn’t get much game time to see their worth.

Voss won’t have any choice next year but to play youngsters at times and maybe that is the big picture the LM are looking at.

I like it. We were going nowhere and this gives us a chance to get some nice surprises coming through.

I hope you’re right. We need to do it, it’s an absolute fantasy that Crippa, Cerra, Walsh & Hewett are some sort of elite midfield that is awesome when fully fit.

It’s slow - it was contested, side ways shuffling, backwards traveling mess. Worked for a little patch then was woefully exposed.
Throwing Doc into didn’t help either.
We need rotations, young hungry players attacking the play & the opposition!

Baffling to me how people expect change by keeping the same formula.

I have full faith we have the kids to impact - we can carry there development Crippa is a ****ing beast, Cerra/Doc/Acres won’t let them get “beat up on”. This isn’t the bad old days, we have mature gun players to help the kids.

We just have to be brave enough to give them a chance to shine.
Every player does not need to be a gun mid all game - just impact & help out when we need it.

People have forgotten when we 100% just had to win a CBA, who did we throw in there - Eddie ****ing Betts & he use to deliver! Sure as hell he wasn’t a mid thou.

Let’s find out what the list can do, the answer could be pleasantly surprising.

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

I’m not fully convinced Opium isn’t a troll…

I'm in agreeance with a lot he says.
If some of the contracts handed out recently had have been more realistically conservative, the traded players and delistings may have been significantly different.
And for those expecting improvement to come from within to take us to the Holy Grail, I hope you are right. Injuries will have a say in this again despite a new fitness guru....we are Carlton after all.
And you need to add two or three best 22 every season to advance your cause....as per Kevin Sheedy! The best teams from this season have for the best part achieved this. Guess we got Haynes though!

 

[Wickzki]

Carroll wants senior games and another club is offering him that. They weren't prepared to trade so we look after the player and let him go.

10 players in total. 4 constantly injured players, 3 rookies who never got a game and didn't look likely to. 2 regular best 22 players but not in our top dozen, and 1 fringe/depth midfielder.

It won't be the difference between winning or losing.

Our B&F disagrees with "none of our top dozen."

Availability is paramount. The club said this ar the conclusion of the season. On a per game basis Kennedy may not have been "top dozen" but overall finished tenth.

I'd love to know who we're replacing our depth with .

It's gone from a strength to a question mark.

 

[Wickzki]

How many times do you want it not to work before you decide that we need to refresh things?

I can't even imagine a parallel universe where having/not having Jack Carroll on our list moves the needle in any shape or form. I liked the bloke and hoped that he might step up but he is very vanilla.

We've cut depth and haven't done very much to replace it.

Where is the lie in that argument?

It takes a list to win a premiership.

We didn't need Carroll to be a "difference maker" or a "needle pusher " all we need from those spots is loyal foot soldiers and at his worst he fits that descriptor.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Might be drawing a long bow but I wonder if this is LM way of forcing more games into Binns, Lord, Wilson, Moir etc.

Your strength can become your weakness. Despite our injuries, we put solid players out there every week last year. But it meant the young guys didn’t get much game time to see their worth.

Voss won’t have any choice next year but to play youngsters at times and maybe that is the big picture the LM are looking at.

I like it. We were going nowhere and this gives us a chance to get some nice surprises coming through.

Thats pretty much exactly what Austin said the intention was this off season. Paraphrasing of course but he did say its all about creating opportunities for the kids

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

We've cut depth and haven't done very much to replace it.

Where is the lie in that argument?

It takes a list to win a premiership.

We have plenty of depth in every position bar KPD and Small + Key forward. Carroll and Kennedy departing is the least of our issues

 

[bigblueboy]

Did WC seriously want Owies instead of Carroll?

 

[tarczonandjane]

I just think we are shaping the demographics of the list away from big bodied and slow midfielders.

I like Jack Carroll more than many on here. But the club clearly think Lord has gone past him, Ben Campo offers something similar, and pick 3 and Billy Wilson provide a point of difference.

 

[Opium]

We've cut depth and haven't done very much to replace it.

Where is the lie in that argument?

It takes a list to win a premiership.

This is spot on

We moved on good players who played their roll well. Owies and Kennedy and replaced them with nothing?

We haven't addressed our lack of speed across the ground yet we lost very handy solid players. Our only gain is Haynes.

 

[El Topo]

I’m not fully convinced Opium isn’t a troll…

Poor form positing this on a discussion forum, all Opie has done is rate the playing list differently to many here

 

[carlton_99]

We've cut depth and haven't done very much to replace it.

Where is the lie in that argument?

It takes a list to win a premiership.

We didn't need Carroll to be a "difference maker" or a "needle pusher " all we need from those spots is loyal foot soldiers and at his worst he fits that descriptor.

You don't think Lord (only 2 games in 24') can cover Carroll and Pick 3 cover Kennedy? Then have Ben Camperoeale as that next tier of midfield depth.

 

[JJBagger]

Poor form positing this on a discussion forum, all Opie has done is rate the playing list differently to many here

Nothing to do with the way they rate the playing list. The poster is always nit picking and finding ways to discredit either Voss or the club as a whole. So much so that I would describe it as “troll like”

 

[JJBagger]

I'm in agreeance with a lot he says.
If some of the contracts handed out recently had have been more realistically conservative, the traded players and delistings may have been significantly different.
And for those expecting improvement to come from within to take us to the Holy Grail, I hope you are right. Injuries will have a say in this again despite a new fitness guru....we are Carlton after all.
And you need to add two or three best 22 every season to advance your cause....as per Kevin Sheedy! The best teams from this season have for the best part achieved this. Guess we got Haynes though!

The lions literally added kids from the draft, and by your logic, that turned them from a team that perpetually flopped late in finals series, to an overwhelming premier. We are adding multiple kids this off season, how do you know they aren’t the answer?

 

[tarczonandjane]

This is spot on

We moved on good players who played their roll well. Owies and Kennedy and replaced them with nothing?

We haven't addressed our lack of speed across the ground yet we lost very handy solid players. Our only gain is Haynes.

I think the speed is meant to be Binns and Wilson (plus pick 3), and probably Lord being quicker than Carroll and Kennedy.

Yes… you could shoot holes through that logic. But I think that’s the way the club is viewing it.

I certainly think we could have better addressed the pace issue if we had have kept picks 12 and 14. But it is what it is.

 

[Tjblues]

We moved on good players who played their roll well. Owies and Kennedy and replaced them with nothing?

We haven't addressed our lack of speed across the ground yet we lost very handy solid players. Our only gain is Haynes.

I understand what you’re saying by I’ll try to counter this point.

We’ve had a very similar list for 2/3 years now. Its shown itself to be a finals worthy list, but not a grand final/premiership list.

The guys who have moved on (Carroll, Kennedy, Owies) all would have played senior footy at points in 2025, but we’ve seen that the sum of it doesn’t add up to us winning #17.

So we need to make some changes, Owies and Carroll are out of contract, Kennedy had trade value, so they become the ones to replace. They are also 3 guys who don’t fix our speed problem.

There’s no guarantees that these moves make us better, but we’ve seen enough to know they probably won’t be the difference between a 6-10 finish and a 1-4 finish

It’s a risk, but it’s a risk worth taking from my view

 

[lopezz]

This is spot on

We moved on good players who played their roll well. Owies and Kennedy and replaced them with nothing?

We haven't addressed our lack of speed across the ground yet we lost very handy solid players. Our only gain is Haynes.

But thats not the point. These players are good but not going to take us forward. We have told them our requirements and they have chosen to find other opportunities. Are you saying we should be selfish and hold these players purely so that we have them as back up?

Doesn't seem like going forward when we will have 4 + 3 list spots to fill and can do that with talented youth.

 

[BigFrizz36]

We've cut depth and haven't done very much to replace it.

Where is the lie in that argument?

It takes a list to win a premiership.

We didn't need Carroll to be a "difference maker" or a "needle pusher " all we need from those spots is loyal foot soldiers and at his worst he fits that descriptor.

Since the start of last season we have added pick 3 (who will be a midfielder), Cooper Lord, and Ben Camporeale. Every chance that all three play a fair few games next year. They replace Kennedy and Carroll. I love Matty Kennedy but it was clear that we need more pace in the midfield. Jack Carroll was either sub or subbed out in a lot of games and it was decided (either rightly or wrongly) that we needed to upgrade his spot.

I'm happy that we don't lose by replacing Kennedy and Carroll with pick 3, Lord and Camporeale in the short term and particularly in the long term. That's what I referred to when I mentioned refreshing the list.

But the real improvement should come from Cerra not being hamstrung and Walsh not suffering the delayed problems with his back. If that happens then look out.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Our depth next year is the health of the squad

 

[Wickzki]

I'm happy that we don't lose by replacing Kennedy and Carroll with pick 3, Lord and Camporeale in the short term and particularly in the long term. That's what I referred to when I mentioned refreshing the list.

But the real improvement should come from Cerra not being hamstrung and Walsh not suffering the delayed problems with his back. If that happens then look out.

The average number 3 pick plays 9 games. You're expecting a lot more than the norm expecting him to replace one of the few on our list that played a full complement of games.

Long-term, absolutely.

If Lord can replicate Carroll's 2024 that would be a success because again long-term the potential is probably higher.

Not sold on what Ben will do next year but there's a sizable gap between your average #3 pick and Kennedy.

In the short term I think we take half to a full a step back on that transaction and gain significantly in the long run but the team needs a boost for 2025 that they're just not going to reasonably get.

Cerra and Walsh being healthy is a monumental difference but both have injury histories that demand we have depth coverage.

 

[Opium]

I understand what you’re saying by I’ll try to counter this point.

We’ve had a very similar list for 2/3 years now. Its shown itself to be a finals worthy list, but not a grand final/premiership list.

The guys who have moved on (Carroll, Kennedy, Owies) all would have played senior footy at points in 2025, but we’ve seen that the sum of it doesn’t add up to us winning #17.

So we need to make some changes, Owies and Carroll are out of contract, Kennedy had trade value, so they become the ones to replace. They are also 3 guys who don’t fix our speed problem.

There’s no guarantees that these moves make us better, but we’ve seen enough to know they probably won’t be the difference between a 6-10 finish and a 1-4 finish

It’s a risk, but it’s a risk worth taking from my view

I understand. We're hoping our improvement comes from players like Wilson, Lord, Binns and Moir.

Whilst I agree they need to be given every opportunity with more senior exposure. We need to be realistic as well. If they play 8 -10 games next season they've done well.

We got rid of three important/ depth players for essentially pick 38.

Not a great outcome imho when other clubs are strengthening their list.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'm just sitting here wondering if Carroll delisting means they're gonna throw the Cow into the middle over pre season? Got half backs coming out our ears, would love to see him in there as that hard tackling presence with a booming kick.

Cripps
Walsh
Cerra
Hewett/Lord
Cowan
Smith/Draper/FOS/Lalor

That would be an extremely exciting midfield and provide some versatility/rotations to keep everyone fresh.

+Doch, Elijah, Fog etc to chop out when needed

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I understand. We're hoping our improvement comes from players like Wilson, Lord, Binns and Moir.

Whilst I agree they need to be given every opportunity with more senior exposure. We need to be realistic as well. If they play 8 -10 games next season they've done well.

We got rid of three important/ depth players for essentially pick 38.

Not a great outcome imho when other clubs are strengthening their list.

A necessary evil. Unfortunately thats just the way list management goes sometimes, Hawthorn booted Mitchell and O'Meara from their team to open up opportunities and its paid dividends. We'd be hoping the same will occur as we bring in some talented kids next year to replace the known quantities who couldn't shift the needle for us.

 

[bluesDeluxe]

I love some of these cut players over the last couple of weeks BUT .... Carlton are serious. We have had enough. I don't know why we persisted with some for so long, but we did and now we are rectifying it.

Quarter of our list ... GONE. The ones that have been or will be picked up by another club ... well, those clubs weren't going to come-a-calling with any trade offer. That's how big the risk is for them and/or how highly these players are rated elsewhere.

Let nobody become too comfortable having a casual game with their mates. Maybe this cleanout will cause the commitment of a couple of others to waver, but if that is what it takes for the rest of the squad to go 'oh shit, they are serious', then what a win for the club.

Every time we sack a coach, we know that the tail is wagging the dog because you can't cut a whole team. But, though many were low hanging fruit, a few have been shocks and players the fans wanted to keep. What a ****ing deep cut for a team who made finals for two years running after a decade out. I stand and applaud the Carlton Football Club for having the balls to wake up the staff, players and fans from their slumber. No more being nice and friendly ... do your friggin' jobs and win football games. The professional players at the club will be loving this.

I think I have to do my part and sign up after ending my automatic rollover.

Carlton Football Club ...

The weak will self select out

 

[JJBagger]

The average number 3 pick plays 9 games. You're expecting a lot more than the norm expecting him to replace one of the few on our list that played a full complement of games.

Long-term, absolutely.

If Lord can replicate Carroll's 2024 that would be a success because again long-term the potential is probably higher.

Not sold on what Ben will do next year but there's a sizable gap between your average #3 pick and Kennedy.

In the short term I think we take half to a full a step back on that transaction and gain significantly in the long run but the team needs a boost for 2025 that they're just not going to reasonably get.

Cerra and Walsh being healthy is a monumental difference but both have injury histories that demand we have depth coverage.

This year, the number 3 pick won’t be an average number 3 pick. This is a crop as ready as any I’ve ever seen to play next year. Lawson Humphries was a pick in the 70’s and ended up a key part of a team that made a prelim this year. It’s all about how you utilise them as much as anything