List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[JJBagger]

I understand. We're hoping our improvement comes from players like Wilson, Lord, Binns and Moir.

Whilst I agree they need to be given every opportunity with more senior exposure. We need to be realistic as well. If they play 8 -10 games next season they've done well.

We got rid of three important/ depth players for essentially pick 38.

Not a great outcome imho when other clubs are strengthening their list.

You’ve simplified this way too much. Our list is only not stronger if no one develops. Having Cerra and Walsh available for a full pre season and season makes up for anything we’ve lost with Kennedy and Carroll. Plus if we can develop some of the younger guys, as well as get improvement from the 3rd to 6 year players, it’ll be fine

 

[Lace_Out]

I understand the Marchbank, Cuningham and Martin delistings. 11 games total combined. All three very injury prone. You can replace that with ease.

I understand the delistings of Akuei, M Carroll, S Durdin and Mirkov. They're all either injury prone, lacked development or both. Sorry lads, all the best.

I understand the Owies decision as much as it hurts.

I begrudgingly accept the Kennedy trade

The way I look at it, Carroll aside, we've already cut 3 players off the team - Owies and Kennedy who were best 22 and the trio of injury prone who gave you half a season.

In totality, it's 9 list spots total.

We've gutted the list of depth which was our strength in our run to the preliminary final in 2023.

Re-signing Jack Carroll was an absolute no brainer.

It's just dumb. A step too far.

Sounds like the club are expecting others to be ahead of him from rd 1, or close to. And perhaps they feel they've seen his ceiling.

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[Lace_Out]

10 changes so far. Who would have thought


PS if someone had of offered a bag of chips for Young it would have been 11

I like it too. We desperately needed a list regeneration.

Backs up what someone was telling me (one of Sayers best mates). In fact it puts an apostrophe on it.

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[Yubby]

I can see both perspectives as its a fine line between depth that has experience, that will challenge players in the best 22 to be on top of their game to retain their spot, and give fresh talent a look in and pathway. I don't hate the changes or like them but it is these tough decisions that often set the good clubs apart. I imagine we will bring in a bit more experience through the rookie draft and preseason supplement scheme to balance things back out.

 

[BigFrizz36]

The average number 3 pick plays 9 games. You're expecting a lot more than the norm expecting him to replace one of the few on our list that played a full complement of games.

Long-term, absolutely.

If Lord can replicate Carroll's 2024 that would be a success because again long-term the potential is probably higher.

Not sold on what Ben will do next year but there's a sizable gap between your average #3 pick and Kennedy.

In the short term I think we take half to a full a step back on that transaction and gain significantly in the long run but the team needs a boost for 2025 that they're just not going to reasonably get.

Cerra and Walsh being healthy is a monumental difference but both have injury histories that demand we have depth coverage.

The last 10 pick 3's have been;

2014 Angus Brayshaw - 21 games in 2015
2015 Callum Mills - 22 games in 2016
2016 Hugh McCluggage - 18 games in 2017
2017 Paddy Dow -20 games in 2018
2018 Isaac Rankine - 0 games in 2019
2019 Luke Jackson - 6 games in 2020
2020 Will Phillips - 16 games in 2021
2021 Finn Callaghan - 5 games in 2022
2022 Harry Sheezel - 23 games in 2023
2023 Jed Walter - 14 games in 2024

I didn't do the list to make a point but rather to show the class of the players involved. Take Rankine out , who was injured for most of 2018 with a hip injury and hamstrings, allow a bit for Jackson being a young ruckman and Walter being a KPD and it's not too hard to see a 15 game minimum player in 2015 coming in. That's Carroll replaced then.-

 

[HarryFlashman]

I understand. We're hoping our improvement comes from players like Wilson, Lord, Binns and Moir.

Whilst I agree they need to be given every opportunity with more senior exposure. We need to be realistic as well. If they play 8 -10 games next season they've done well.

We got rid of three important/ depth players for essentially pick 38.

Not a great outcome imho when other clubs are strengthening their list.

You’re right that the return on the 3 players is minimal but u also answered your own question with the depth - it’s coming from Wilson/Moir/Binns/Lord.

12 & 14 vs 3 is going to be a debate for years - especially given that the comparable range will be 12-18.
Any of those 7 players develops as a gun the argument will seem solid.
But in this draft, with the way the top 4 are projected, their ceiling is taken as higher.

The bet is 1 of the 4 will be better than 2 of the 7 - that’s a line ball bet with odds against pick 3 - but u throw in the higher ceiling & that all the top 4 is rated so highly, it’s a safer play to take the pick 3 option.
It’s dicey either way - but I really believe they think they will land a gun with 3.

How we use our depth I think is the kicker - IMO they have to be given the opportunity early, if they succeed we will look like geniuses, but if they don’t, they have time in the 2s to grow & work up to another crack.

If we don’t give them the opportunity and then need coverage through the season we could be exposed badly.

Big difference between a young player having confidence shown in them VS needing them to step up to cover with a bare shelf behind them. Completely different level of pressure to perform.

We need to improve in a number of facets of the game, list management & player development being a big one - we haven’t done it well of late.

 

[HarryFlashman]

The last 10 pick 3's have been;

2014 Angus Brayshaw - 21 games in 2015
2015 Callum Mills - 22 games in 2016
2016 Hugh McCluggage - 18 games in 2017
2017 Paddy Dow -20 games in 2018
2018 Isaac Rankine - 0 games in 2019
2019 Luke Jackson - 6 games in 2020
2020 Will Phillips - 16 games in 2021
2021 Finn Callaghan - 5 games in 2022
2022 Harry Sheezel - 23 games in 2023
2023 Jed Walter - 14 games in 2024

I didn't do the list to make a point but rather to show the class of the players involved. Take Rankine out , who was injured for most of 2018 with a hip injury and hamstrings, allow a bit for Jackson being a young ruckman and Walter being a KPD and it's not too hard to see a 15 game minimum player in 2015 coming in. That's Carroll replaced then.-

Nice data to back the argument

 

[Faz 2000]

Jack Carroll is a confusing one. Pick 41 four years back, 20-odd games and most of the this year. What has he not done? Or why are we NOW convinced he can’t do it?

That’s what the sort of pick we got Kennedy for buys you. Feels like we delist a hell of a lot of our second and third rounders after getting exactly **** all out of them.

 

[Warsaw]

Jack Carroll would gave been on the bare minimum salary wise. It's not salary cap related , it's just list spot related. We've allowed ourselves 4 picks at the draft (pick 3, 38 and Camporeale brothers) . And that's after adding Haynes to the list and upgrading Boyd.

If it’s purely about list positions are we allowed to say the quiet part aloud?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Not worried about Carroll at all. He has never proven he is actually capable of playing as a full time mid anyway so we don’t even know if we have lost true midfield depth or just someone who can fill a hole but is miles off the pace at AFL level.
Personally if we are getting that short that we need more then someone to just run through there (Doc, Hollands, Fogarty types) then I don’t think adding Carroll is going to help us win games anyway. I’d prefer to go back to tagging someone and play Cinc.

 

[HarryFlashman]

If it’s purely about list positions are we allowed to say the quiet part aloud?

Is the quiet bit - why the **** haven’t we paid out and booted Fantasia & kept Carroll if it’s about list spots?

It could be we just let him go to somewhere else where he’s more likely to get a game

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Our B&F disagrees with "none of our top dozen."

Availability is paramount. The club said this ar the conclusion of the season. On a per game basis Kennedy may not have been "top dozen" but overall finished tenth.

I'd love to know who we're replacing our depth with .

It's gone from a strength to a question mark.

We had players down for various reasons including injury, but I'd have Cripps, Walsh, Curnow, McKay, TDK, Newman, Weitering, Saad, McGovern, Cerra, Acres, Docherty ahead of Chugga, but sure, it is all opinion, and maybe I could have said top 8/9/10, but I really just mean our A grade players (by pedigree or talent, not necessarily 2024 form).

I love Kennedy and I defended him at every turn. Consistent, honest footballer with some strong traits. The one paced midfield was part of the reason we failed in the end, and Kennedy left to play midfield more often.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Is the quiet bit - why the **** haven’t we paid out and booted Fantasia & kept Carroll if it’s about list spots?

It could be we just let him go to somewhere else where he’s more likely to get a game

100% he is leaving to get more games elsewhere, just like Kennedy did. If he gets picked up as a DFA, we can be proud of the club looking after players' welfare.

 

[ctwenty1]

Good luck to Jack with his career after us.

Tbh never really saw enough to think he would make it.

Right call, and I am not meaning it to be harsh

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

all those lamenting depth or lack of...we still have the same number of players and now won't have 6 unusable constantly injured guys and 3 unusable project players. The depth is more likely to actually increase

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

This is spot on

We moved on good players who played their roll well. Owies and Kennedy and replaced them with nothing?

We haven't addressed our lack of speed across the ground yet we lost very handy solid players. Our only gain is Haynes.

This replaced them with nothing line is beyond disingenuous

 

[zeeCFC]

We should really push to turn Lemmey into a defender. He's built his body up now, he's a good kick and seems like a smart footballer. He'll also play many more games than waiting for Harry or Charlie to get injured and hope we actually play him instead of playing SOS or Pitto and TDK