List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[JustOneTime]

No club will be anointing guys that have been in the system barely a year without producing greater output/consistency and or already being an exceptional talent

But, like previous years, we are already replacing the likes of Cerra, Newman, Hewett

Just like Williamson should replace Newman, Dow replacing any mid apart from Cripps, etc, etc

When it doesn't happen, the coach has no idea, our development is crap, we aren't fit, etc. Then a new preseason and every is great

It's a merry-go-round

Totally get it. Some on that really small sample size have even elected to put in Moir at their own whim. A classic example on barely been in the system a year.

Moir is a watch and earn a spot. Not gift him a spot.

 

[BlueNath]

I have seen several posts on here about Hewett and how others can take his role. Then I see people suggesting Lord, Jagga, Hollands, Cowan, Ben etc. can fill that role (for various reasons such as to make us faster). So I thought I’d just give a quick overview of how VFL (and assumably AFL) coaches setup stoppages. If anyone on here has the privilege to see how AFL coaches approach stoppage work in the inner sanctum (or also have VFL experiences), please give us your insights also.

Lets talk clean slate… Think the Tassie devils and their recruiters and coaches getting together to discuss what is needed in an ideal world for that very first bounce of the footy in game 1. It would be:
1x Striker mid
1x Engine mid
1x Defensive mid

To give those of you who are unaware a quick synopsis of what coaches mean when they talk about these role types, they are:

Striker mid: TYPICALLY... offensive weapon (break through defensive walls), explosive, clean, attacking mentality, decisive, physical (bigger/stronger bodies), high impact, higher kick ratio, high I50 ratio, kick goals, get tired easier so rest forward or lower TOG. 20 disposals is typically all they need to have influence on the game.

Engine mid: TYPICALLY... endurance athletes (high TOG), creative, high IQ, agility and/or speed (but not explosive), good two-way runners (get back to defend and help with transition), high handball to kick ratio, moderate meters gained, less physical (usually lots of loose ball gets). 30 disposals is typical for a good game.

Defensive mid: TYPICALLY... many of the engine mid attributes (but with maybe slightly less skill), anchors the midfield, good size/strong, defensive mindset and positioning, high tackle count, balanced handball to kick ratio, disrupts oppo setups, clamps a player, blocks/creates space, usually around 15-20 disposals while disrupting the opposition is a great game.

When you dont have the mix of these players midfields can sometimes look out of balance or one-paced. So having a gun in each of these role types is (generally speaking) the ideal scenario for match day coaches.

Now lets talk reality… Not every team has this mix of players available, and certainly not all the time, because of various factors such as injuries, suspensions, match-day rotations etc. etc. So what is a coach to do?

The quick one I want to cover off first is the Striker role. Gun Striker mids are rare commodities!! Not every team has one, but everyone wants one (or two). In fact, when I think of guys like this only few really stand out to me... Petracca, Young, Reid, Warner, JHF, DeGoey, Heeney. I might be missing one or two, but generally most teams lack these players and either decide to just run with a 2nd Engine mid or try and pinch hit speedy guys (typically small forwards) through there throughout the match.

Engine mids are common commodities. Gun Defensive mids are less common, but many Engine mids (especially those lacking the highest levels of skill) are often tasked with performing the defensive role.

With all that established, and GENERALLY SPEAKING, if 1x Striker mid 1x Engine mid and 1x Defensive mid roles can not be obtained, coaches fall back too 2x Engine mids 1x Defensive mid role. Essentially, coaches almost always, rely on that Defensive mid role to negate the offensive threat of the opposition (player and/or positioning to guard against the ball getting in offensive space).

This brings me onto Hewett. He is widely regarded as one of the best defensive mids in the comp. All of Walsh, Cripps, Lord, Elijah, Doc, Jagga, Ben etc. play engine or offensive roles. How anyone can say any of these players can push Hewett out of the team I believe does not have a firm grasp of how centre bounce stoppage work happens and the roles that get performed in there.

Take Port as an example. Have you ever seen a centre bounce with all of Butters, Rozee and JHF is there? Don’t go looking for footage, because I can tell you the answer is no… you never have. Why? Well JHF is a Strike mid and Butters and Rozee and Engine mids who both have a tendency to be offensive. If they don’t win the ball it would be a certain goal opportunity to the oppo every time. That is why I think Drews year was incredibly underrated. In fact, all good defensive mids go relatively unheralded compared to their other mids.

I look at the two grand finalists as no better examples of teams with gun defensive mids in Rowbottom and Dunkley and what they do for their teams. Everyone pumps up Heeney and Warner, but without Rowbottom, they cannot do what they do (without looking incredibly silly at times).

We have an amazing defensive mid in Hewett. I firmly believe he is best 22 if we are to go deep next year. But I am happy to have the discussions on who might take over that role. So if not Hewett, I think the question should really be phrased more along the lines of:

If not Hewett playing as the defensive mid, who else do you think could perform that sacrificial role?

I should point out that I have not mentioned Cerra (or Kennedy for obvious reasons). But I have noticed he also plays a lot more of that defensive mid role this year, especially around stoppages. I think he has copped a lot of flack. Injuries aside, I feel for him now that he has been playing the sacrificial defensive mid role more. Defence is not as sexy as offence. And Cerra was brought across for his offensive talents. But maybe Voss is grooming him as the Hewett replacement? Either way, Hewett is our best defensive mid for mine.

 

[JustOneTime]

I should point out that I have not mentioned Cerra (or Kennedy for obvious reasons). But I have noticed he also plays a lot more of that defensive mid role this year, especially around stoppages. I think he has copped a lot of flack. Injuries aside, I feel for him now that he has been playing the sacrificial defensive mid role more. Defence is not as sexy as offence. And Cerra was brought across for his offensive talents. But maybe Voss is grooming him as the Hewett replacement? Either way, Hewett is our best defensive mid for mine.

Good post. I just want to comment on this last bit.

This is exactly what happened. Cerra an attacking metres gained player and insider 50 distributor for Freo came to Carlton and through team sacrifice got the defensive role to fit in with current midfield.

He got stuck with the defensive role because everything at Carlton is about Cripps and Cripps wants the midfield attack role. And Walsh doesn't want to give up that forward running role either. So the better kick inside 50 and better metres gained offensive player is now used in unfavourable defensive circumstances. Instead we have two terrible inside 50 thinkers and kickers delivering the ball inside 50 because they are the incumbent. Voss like his predecessors are wedded to Cripps to be god almighty.

The coaches should of made a stand and told Cripps to be an extractor role which then brings in Cerra in a more attacking role. Instead they gave Cripps 'the world' role along with Walsh. Since then Cerra has had the benefit of Carlton's high performance team wrecking his body in quick time (a feat in itself) and so now it is a non equation and will take 2 seasons before he can challenge and have coaches onside for a more attacking role.

Carlton are simply slow learners. Why pay so much for Cerra as a defensive mid when there are cheaper options. We paid a price for an attacking mid and then use him the wrong way. We need to be roles based; not talent based or name based.

Some on here will say Cripps deserves 'the world' role and that is probably why we are where we are. A team of 7-9 A-graders soaking up the lime light why the rest get flamed and a really poor transition game that favours those few players (Weitering, Cripps, Acres, Walsh, Charlie, TDK, & Harry).

 

[Garters]

If Lord can get even tanner and even more ripped I’d almost have him as a Smokey for the Rising Star.

More tanned.....Thank you. Dismissed

 

[Arr0w]

Totally get it. Some on that really small sample size have even elected to put in Moir at their own whim. A classic example on barely been in the system a year.

Moir is a watch and earn a spot. Not gift him a spot.

Like many others I have picked a best 23, but if Moir struggles to cement himself, so be it and someone else will play ahead of him

I'm not offering up false analysis to justify his selection

 

[BigBreakfast]

Lots of the drills in the early footage focus on clearance and getting forward of the contest and exit out the front of stoppage. We have tended to loop out the back of contests and feed forward. This has implication on LM because it relies on quick hands and feet and forward momentum

Anyone lacking speed will fall away and clean by hand and foot will be a premium

No more get it and bomb forward to a contest as a staple, particularly out of HF and denture clearance

Important for Cowan whose work by foot in particular has been suspect

 

[Beyond Blue]

People are talking about Lord like he has blistering speed compared to Hewett

I can’t wait until the club wheels out the next round of pre season training photos….if he’s more ripped and tanned he’ll be able to walk on water…which will be a handy skill for him playing reserves football on suburban football grounds during a Melbourne winter.

 

[budgiejk]

Striker Mid, Engine Mid, etc. What a load of rubbish. Super dooper flying half back flank. Wizard forward pocket.

 

[Garters]

Striker Mid, Engine Mid, etc. What a load of rubbish. Super dooper flying half back flank. Wizard forward pocket.

And your opposing insight is...... To criticise without foundation?
On a side note, the oldman used to say, no such thing as stupid questions, just stupid people. Holds true v frequently.

 

[katmanblue]

Successful clubs allow players to develop naturally and find consistency at the lower levels, perhaps that's the strategy we should embrace too

Need to invest in the vfl side. Need better vfl listed players.

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[BlackGoanna]

I have seen several posts on here about Hewett and how others can take his role. Then I see people suggesting Lord, Jagga, Hollands, Cowan, Ben etc. can fill that role (for various reasons such as to make us faster). So I thought I’d just give a quick overview of how VFL (and assumably AFL) coaches setup stoppages. If anyone on here has the privilege to see how AFL coaches approach stoppage work in the inner sanctum (or also have VFL experiences), please give us your insights also.

Lets talk clean slate… Think the Tassie devils and their recruiters and coaches getting together to discuss what is needed in an ideal world for that very first bounce of the footy in game 1. It would be:
1x Striker mid
1x Engine mid
1x Defensive mid

To give those of you who are unaware a quick synopsis of what coaches mean when they talk about these role types, they are:

Striker mid: TYPICALLY... offensive weapon (break through defensive walls), explosive, clean, attacking mentality, decisive, physical (bigger/stronger bodies), high impact, higher kick ratio, high I50 ratio, kick goals, get tired easier so rest forward or lower TOG. 20 disposals is typically all they need to have influence on the game.

Engine mid: TYPICALLY... endurance athletes (high TOG), creative, high IQ, agility and/or speed (but not explosive), good two-way runners (get back to defend and help with transition), high handball to kick ratio, moderate meters gained, less physical (usually lots of loose ball gets). 30 disposals is typical for a good game.

Defensive mid: TYPICALLY... many of the engine mid attributes (but with maybe slightly less skill), anchors the midfield, good size/strong, defensive mindset and positioning, high tackle count, balanced handball to kick ratio, disrupts oppo setups, clamps a player, blocks/creates space, usually around 15-20 disposals while disrupting the opposition is a great game.

When you dont have the mix of these players midfields can sometimes look out of balance or one-paced. So having a gun in each of these role types is (generally speaking) the ideal scenario for match day coaches.

Now lets talk reality… Not every team has this mix of players available, and certainly not all the time, because of various factors such as injuries, suspensions, match-day rotations etc. etc. So what is a coach to do?

The quick one I want to cover off first is the Striker role. Gun Striker mids are rare commodities!! Not every team has one, but everyone wants one (or two). In fact, when I think of guys like this only few really stand out to me... Petracca, Young, Reid, Warner, JHF, DeGoey, Heeney. I might be missing one or two, but generally most teams lack these players and either decide to just run with a 2nd Engine mid or try and pinch hit speedy guys (typically small forwards) through there throughout the match.

Engine mids are common commodities. Gun Defensive mids are less common, but many Engine mids (especially those lacking the highest levels of skill) are often tasked with performing the defensive role.

With all that established, and GENERALLY SPEAKING, if 1x Striker mid 1x Engine mid and 1x Defensive mid roles can not be obtained, coaches fall back too 2x Engine mids 1x Defensive mid role. Essentially, coaches almost always, rely on that Defensive mid role to negate the offensive threat of the opposition (player and/or positioning to guard against the ball getting in offensive space).

This brings me onto Hewett. He is widely regarded as one of the best defensive mids in the comp. All of Walsh, Cripps, Lord, Elijah, Doc, Jagga, Ben etc. play engine or offensive roles. How anyone can say any of these players can push Hewett out of the team I believe does not have a firm grasp of how centre bounce stoppage work happens and the roles that get performed in there.

Take Port as an example. Have you ever seen a centre bounce with all of Butters, Rozee and JHF is there? Don’t go looking for footage, because I can tell you the answer is no… you never have. Why? Well JHF is a Strike mid and Butters and Rozee and Engine mids who both have a tendency to be offensive. If they don’t win the ball it would be a certain goal opportunity to the oppo every time. That is why I think Drews year was incredibly underrated. In fact, all good defensive mids go relatively unheralded compared to their other mids.

I look at the two grand finalists as no better examples of teams with gun defensive mids in Rowbottom and Dunkley and what they do for their teams. Everyone pumps up Heeney and Warner, but without Rowbottom, they cannot do what they do (without looking incredibly silly at times).

We have an amazing defensive mid in Hewett. I firmly believe he is best 22 if we are to go deep next year. But I am happy to have the discussions on who might take over that role. So if not Hewett, I think the question should really be phrased more along the lines of:

If not Hewett playing as the defensive mid, who else do you think could perform that sacrificial role?

I should point out that I have not mentioned Cerra (or Kennedy for obvious reasons). But I have noticed he also plays a lot more of that defensive mid role this year, especially around stoppages. I think he has copped a lot of flack. Injuries aside, I feel for him now that he has been playing the sacrificial defensive mid role more. Defence is not as sexy as offence. And Cerra was brought across for his offensive talents. But maybe Voss is grooming him as the Hewett replacement? Either way, Hewett is our best defensive mid for mine.

Not sure labelling them in boxes of striker, engine and defensive is anything more than a passing fad. And you do this with a hint of arrogance. Reality is some players are quicker, others kick it further, some or taller or more agile etc etc.

Our midfield will run as a team defence. We will need some run, spread, agility and kicking around our captain. They will all have different roles from time to time depending on matchups etc.

Who we wrap around Cripps is solid debate and will likely be fluid in the early parts of the season. The issue with having Cripps as our dominant mid is that he lacks speed so we need to be careful that we don’t roll out a group that can’t keep the pace with the likes of Sydney etc.





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[Dunna Heartknee]

I have seen several posts on here about Hewett and how others can take his role. Then I see people suggesting Lord, Jagga, Hollands, Cowan, Ben etc. can fill that role (for various reasons such as to make us faster). So I thought I’d just give a quick overview of how VFL (and assumably AFL) coaches setup stoppages. If anyone on here has the privilege to see how AFL coaches approach stoppage work in the inner sanctum (or also have VFL experiences), please give us your insights also.

Lets talk clean slate… Think the Tassie devils and their recruiters and coaches getting together to discuss what is needed in an ideal world for that very first bounce of the footy in game 1. It would be:
1x Striker mid
1x Engine mid
1x Defensive mid

To give those of you who are unaware a quick synopsis of what coaches mean when they talk about these role types, they are:

Striker mid: TYPICALLY... offensive weapon (break through defensive walls), explosive, clean, attacking mentality, decisive, physical (bigger/stronger bodies), high impact, higher kick ratio, high I50 ratio, kick goals, get tired easier so rest forward or lower TOG. 20 disposals is typically all they need to have influence on the game.

Engine mid: TYPICALLY... endurance athletes (high TOG), creative, high IQ, agility and/or speed (but not explosive), good two-way runners (get back to defend and help with transition), high handball to kick ratio, moderate meters gained, less physical (usually lots of loose ball gets). 30 disposals is typical for a good game.

Defensive mid: TYPICALLY... many of the engine mid attributes (but with maybe slightly less skill), anchors the midfield, good size/strong, defensive mindset and positioning, high tackle count, balanced handball to kick ratio, disrupts oppo setups, clamps a player, blocks/creates space, usually around 15-20 disposals while disrupting the opposition is a great game.

When you dont have the mix of these players midfields can sometimes look out of balance or one-paced. So having a gun in each of these role types is (generally speaking) the ideal scenario for match day coaches.

Now lets talk reality… Not every team has this mix of players available, and certainly not all the time, because of various factors such as injuries, suspensions, match-day rotations etc. etc. So what is a coach to do?

The quick one I want to cover off first is the Striker role. Gun Striker mids are rare commodities!! Not every team has one, but everyone wants one (or two). In fact, when I think of guys like this only few really stand out to me... Petracca, Young, Reid, Warner, JHF, DeGoey, Heeney. I might be missing one or two, but generally most teams lack these players and either decide to just run with a 2nd Engine mid or try and pinch hit speedy guys (typically small forwards) through there throughout the match.

Engine mids are common commodities. Gun Defensive mids are less common, but many Engine mids (especially those lacking the highest levels of skill) are often tasked with performing the defensive role.

With all that established, and GENERALLY SPEAKING, if 1x Striker mid 1x Engine mid and 1x Defensive mid roles can not be obtained, coaches fall back too 2x Engine mids 1x Defensive mid role. Essentially, coaches almost always, rely on that Defensive mid role to negate the offensive threat of the opposition (player and/or positioning to guard against the ball getting in offensive space).

This brings me onto Hewett. He is widely regarded as one of the best defensive mids in the comp. All of Walsh, Cripps, Lord, Elijah, Doc, Jagga, Ben etc. play engine or offensive roles. How anyone can say any of these players can push Hewett out of the team I believe does not have a firm grasp of how centre bounce stoppage work happens and the roles that get performed in there.

Take Port as an example. Have you ever seen a centre bounce with all of Butters, Rozee and JHF is there? Don’t go looking for footage, because I can tell you the answer is no… you never have. Why? Well JHF is a Strike mid and Butters and Rozee and Engine mids who both have a tendency to be offensive. If they don’t win the ball it would be a certain goal opportunity to the oppo every time. That is why I think Drews year was incredibly underrated. In fact, all good defensive mids go relatively unheralded compared to their other mids.

I look at the two grand finalists as no better examples of teams with gun defensive mids in Rowbottom and Dunkley and what they do for their teams. Everyone pumps up Heeney and Warner, but without Rowbottom, they cannot do what they do (without looking incredibly silly at times).

We have an amazing defensive mid in Hewett. I firmly believe he is best 22 if we are to go deep next year. But I am happy to have the discussions on who might take over that role. So if not Hewett, I think the question should really be phrased more along the lines of:

If not Hewett playing as the defensive mid, who else do you think could perform that sacrificial role?

I should point out that I have not mentioned Cerra (or Kennedy for obvious reasons). But I have noticed he also plays a lot more of that defensive mid role this year, especially around stoppages. I think he has copped a lot of flack. Injuries aside, I feel for him now that he has been playing the sacrificial defensive mid role more. Defence is not as sexy as offence. And Cerra was brought across for his offensive talents. But maybe Voss is grooming him as the Hewett replacement? Either way, Hewett is our best defensive mid for mine.

I wonder if our club has thought about giving Cincotta a go as a striker mid, he's the one on our list that closest resembles one.
This sought of move if it came off; would be pure gold.

 

[BlueTongue]

Once again Adam Cerra was leading our best and fairest when he got injured late in the season last year and ended up finishing 4th with 167 votes (more than Cripps for example).

He gets a clear run with injury and I suspect you might have a different viewpoint.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, no doubt he improves us when he's on song, but only time will tell.

 

[BlueTongue]

Carlton are simply slow learners. Why pay so much for Cerra as a defensive mid when there are cheaper options. We paid a price for an attacking mid and then use him the wrong way. We need to be roles based; not talent based or name based.

This is the crux of our whole midfield. Cripps will do what Cripps does, Walsh is shuffled between on-baller and wing, and Cerra has been forced at times to play defense to detrimental effect.

I feel Walsh needs to play wing, Cerra purely on the ball, with Hewitt. Lord will push Hewitt but I'm unsure about Jagga's Role.

He will need to put on some body mass because he'll get smashed at AFL level, no matter how good his evasive skills are, and the last thing we need is to wreck him early like we seem to have done with every other mid we've had.

 

[BlueTongue]

Since when? B-grade is usually used for a solid, dependable player, not a depth option. Moot point though given your suggestion was to play Cincotta there instead.

We've traditionally been screwed either way as, I've already noted because most, inclusive of our ruckman, run forward. We need greater defensive intensity around the ball rather than leaving it to 1 or 2.

I didn't say that Cripps needs him to get the footy. That you've taken that from what was actually said is indeed, ridiculous. I said he allows Cripps to play a more attacking role.. like Libba does for Bont.

100%. Pitto in particular, because he doesn't go forward and do damage (or even kick goals, except for 'that goal' late in the year), he needs to drop back into 'defensive holes' as Gawn does, to become more effective as a ruckman, but I fear that horse has bolted.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Not sure labelling them in boxes of striker, engine and defensive is anything more than a passing fad. And you do this with a hint of arrogance. Reality is some players are quicker, others kick it further, some or taller or more agile etc etc.

Our midfield will run as a team defence. We will need some run, spread, agility and kicking around our captain. They will all have different roles from time to time depending on matchups etc.

Who we wrap around Cripps is solid debate and will likely be fluid in the early parts of the season. The issue with having Cripps as our dominant mid is that he lacks speed so we need to be careful that we don’t roll out a group that can’t keep the pace with the likes of Sydney etc.





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I can see the validity of building midfielder personas/roles - "labelling them in boxes".

The midfield group surround the stoppages & are there to win possession & effectively use the ball forward, or negate effective use by oppo-mids.

The play is static - starting from scratch, especially at CBA's.

Team defence is secondary to midfield defence of course - first effective possession out of the middle is obviously golden - it's not called "the source" for nothing.

I also agree, Hewy is much underrated. His poise & use is awesome, albeit he lacks leg-speed. I'm hoping Lord can develop behind him in this role.

There is a need for this variation in the midfield & you can see how team's with this balance are more effective. Our team for example lacks that attacking mid - something most here have coveted through the recent draft.

Cripps is the best extractor in the comp, Walsh is one of the best gut-running mids but doesn't have the burst from stoppage or kicking efficiency. Cerra has the kicking efficiency but lacks the burst from stoppage (& had obvious fitness issues).

It's fundamental thinking about a midfield in this way - its shows is what we need, what we need to trade/draft in or further develop. I don't think it's a "passing fad" - at least for teams that want to win consistently.

The (veeeery loooong) draft conversation we had around Draper, Jagga, FOS & Langdon exemplified this - burst runner (average user) vs evasive accumulator (more inside, contest to contest) vs burst player & effective user (doesn’t get it enough) vs effective user (slow across the ground).

We discussed these players (persona's) because our need is clear & none of the available top 4 draft options presented the perfect package - burst player, breaks lines, consistent impact, brilliant user, goal kicker.

We lack a Heeney, Bont, Warner, JHF, Treloar.... type.

Who can we develop into this role?

Who could we target in a trade?

 

[DangerousD]

Hewett is the weakest link in our best 4 mids - I want the next evolution of the team & for that, u have to allow an opportunity (does have to be warranted).
Does lack of footy somehow now make Hew better than B grade? Or not slow?

There is many ways to provide opportunity to emerging players to evolve the team, resting players, rotating players, playing in different positions and developing in the VFL.

Thinking Hewett is a weak link and our 4th mid is your opinion, it doesnt make it true, in two of Hewetts season with us he has finished top 5 in our B&F, these aren’t performances of a B grade player.

 

[DangerousD]

Nonsense. If we get our midfield and game plan sorted, and remain relatively injury free the forwards will be much more effective.

You can maintain your pessimistic views of that’s what rocks your socks


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What’s pessimistic about stating four injury prone players will have to play more than they have for us, for our forward line to work effectively?

 

[DangerousD]

So we should rotate Weitering, Cripps, Harry and Charlie multiple times, for the sake of resting them and play Young, Ben, Lemmey and HOK to give them an opportunity to shine?

Yet, the last 3 premiers haven't adopted that methodology

No but we should give these players a rest when they are clearly underdone or struggling physically to give them a rest, this will give other players a chance to develop.

This isn’t a new concept, it’s do be in the big soccer leagues and the NBA.

Would Charlie for example missed the back end of the season if we had rested him for 3 weeks during the middle?

 

[budgiejk]

And your opposing insight is...... To criticise without foundation?
On a side note, the oldman used to say, no such thing as stupid questions, just stupid people. Holds true v frequently.

Labelling things that don't exist and AFL coaches (or anyone outside the Bigfooty) don't even acknowledge, probably does mean that last part of your statement does hold true mate. You're bang on.

We were short this phantom "striker" mid, why didn't we choose Draper? Because no one who makes important decisions, worries about nonsense titles that don't exist.

 

[HarryFlashman]

There is many ways to provide opportunity to emerging players to evolve the team, resting players, rotating players, playing in different positions and developing in the VFL.

Thinking Hewett is a weak link and our 4th mid is your opinion, it doesnt make it true, in two of Hewetts season with us he has finished top 5 in our B&F, these aren’t performances of a B grade player.

B&F is a flawed measurement.
Hewett is 100% a B grade player- that’s not a knock, it’s a fair assessment of his ability. That doesn’t mean his contribution is poor or not valued

He sure as hell isn’t an A grade mid.
My argument is that the best course of development for young mids is to get game time into them (if physically capable - which Lord in particular should be, especially after a solid preseason) with top tier talent to support them.

Also, giving them that opportunity when there is depth/cover behind them, this is important for a number of reasons, namely:
1. The club is backing them, they are being told that they are good enough, that confidence means the world to a young player.
2. The pressure, they aren’t coming in after an injury to a key mid, or after poor performances. It’s a completely different level of pressure to perform, they aren’t replacing the output of that player, they are bringing there own skills to the table.
3. Team performance, it’s bloody hard to break into a team winning games, we will be good and win a lot of games, let them start as part of the team and build with it.
Confidence and enthusiasm does wonders for the entire side.
Hewett won’t go backwards, his output is solid consistently.

A big, solid body providing leadership & support in the 2s to our developing players may just be more important to the team as a whole, then his output in the 1s.

We have a number of young mids now, supporting there development is key, Veteran leadership/support is crucial in talent development in all team sport.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Labelling things that don't exist and AFL coaches (or anyone outside the Bigfooty) don't even acknowledge, probably does mean that last part of your statement does hold true mate. You're bang on.

We were short this phantom "striker" mid, why didn't we choose Draper? Because no one who makes important decisions, worries about nonsense titles that don't exist.

It's just as made up as Centre Half Forward and Full Forward.

All categories and labels are theoretical constructs whose value is in creating a mental shortcut.

We used to have ruck rovers and centres, but that stopped describing useful distinctions so we stopped.

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[Arr0w]

No but we should give these players a rest when they are clearly underdone or struggling physically to give them a rest, this will give other players a chance to develop.

This isn’t a new concept, it’s do be in the big soccer leagues and the NBA.

Would Charlie for example missed the back end of the season if we had rested him for 3 weeks during the middle?

Who knows with Charlie, as it was an ankle injury and needed surgery

 

[bigblueboy]

There is many ways to provide opportunity to emerging players to evolve the team, resting players, rotating players, playing in different positions and developing in the VFL.

Thinking Hewett is a weak link and our 4th mid is your opinion, it doesnt make it true, in two of Hewetts season with us he has finished top 5 in our B&F, these aren’t performances of a B grade player.

The ship starting sinking the moment we dropped Hewett.
That action is not just about the individual, it also created broader confusion.

 

[bigblueboy]

I can see the validity of building midfielder personas/roles - "labelling them in boxes".

The midfield group surround the stoppages & are there to win possession & effectively use the ball forward, or negate effective use by oppo-mids.

The play is static - starting from scratch, especially at CBA's.

Team defence is secondary to midfield defence of course - first effective possession out of the middle is obviously golden - it's not called "the source" for nothing.

I also agree, Hewy is much underrated. His poise & use is awesome, albeit he lacks leg-speed. I'm hoping Lord can develop behind him in this role.

There is a need for this variation in the midfield & you can see how team's with this balance are more effective. Our team for example lacks that attacking mid - something most here have coveted through the recent draft.

Cripps is the best extractor in the comp, Walsh is one of the best gut-running mids but doesn't have the burst from stoppage or kicking efficiency. Cerra has the kicking efficiency but lacks the burst from stoppage (& had obvious fitness issues).

It's fundamental thinking about a midfield in this way - its shows is what we need, what we need to trade/draft in or further develop. I don't think it's a "passing fad" - at least for teams that want to win consistently.

The (veeeery loooong) draft conversation we had around Draper, Jagga, FOS & Langdon exemplified this - burst runner (average user) vs evasive accumulator (more inside, contest to contest) vs burst player & effective user (doesn’t get it enough) vs effective user (slow across the ground).

We discussed these players (persona's) because our need is clear & none of the available top 4 draft options presented the perfect package - burst player, breaks lines, consistent impact, brilliant user, goal kicker.

We lack a Heeney, Bont, Warner, JHF, Treloar.... type.

Who can we develop into this role?

Who could we target in a trade?

I’m confident we would have picked O’Sullivan if he was available. He is the point of difference player.