Player Watch #29: Will Phillips - tags N.Daicos vs Collingwood - subbed off at 3/4 time??

[LuvtheKangas]

They're meant to know whether a draft is worth trading out of or not

Sure. But read the post I responded to again.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

No. The recruiters are supposed to see talent like Serong, Kosi, Flanders, Warner, etc, and draft accordingly.

Comben aside, the 2019 draft was a massive **** up which compounded into 2020.

Taking covid out of the equation, the 2020 draft is looking to be the poorest draft year in a decade or so.



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Which wasn't known in 2019.

 

[DocSholl]

Sure. But read the post I responded to again.

I did read it, it's bemoaning the fact we stupidly traded out of a strong draft. That we couldn't foresee covid occurring doesn't negate that

 

[archereleven]

Which wasn't known in 2019.

You seem to be struggling.

The point isn't covid or the 2020 draft being shit. The point is we were in position to draft a good player and muffed it for the unknown.

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[LuvtheKangas]

You seem to be struggling.

The point isn't covid or the 2020 draft being shit. The point is we were in position to draft a good player and muffed it for the unknown.

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Yeah, I get that. Just that this wasn't your original point. And you know it.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I did read it, it's bemoaning the fact we stupidly traded out of a strong draft. That we couldn't foresee covid occurring doesn't negate that

Yeah, so it was unnecessarily negative / critical to mention the covid weakened 2020 draft, wasn't it?

My whole point, that a couple of you are missing or ignoring, is that the whinging of people here extends to criticising the recruiters for things outside their control.

It's valid to state that we traded out of 2019, which proved (in hindsight) to be a strong draft. But it's a point that's been made approximately a million times already.

 

[Themanbun]

It's a shame Sydney's inside midfield depth is so strong, because a straight swap for Braeden Campbell might be beneficial for all players and parties involved. Both similar high picks from the same draft really struggling to show their junior form.

 

[perplexed]

The pedigree and work ethic is there, so I think the best investment is giving him another year or two rather than trade him for another speculative pick 40+.

Pedigree? I'm confused. Who are his parents? Is he Duck's love child?

As for Will's work ethic, I keep hearing this mentioned as an asset. But what has he been working on? I can't think of one area where he has significantly improved since he was drafted. At the time, the only doubts about him were his lack of versatility and ability to get to contests. These remain the things holding him back. If he can't fix the second it is either through laziness or physical limitation, neither one is good.

 

[BlueandWhiteinmyBlood]

So, the recruiters were supposed to know about Covid before it happened?

LOL. The depth of whinging here is staggering.

If they just emailed Fauci, they would have.

 

[swaeney]

What you guys struggle to understand is if we didn’t take him with pick 3, he would’ve been snapped up with picks 4 or 5.

 

[LB2Snake]

You seem to be struggling.

The point isn't covid or the 2020 draft being shit. The point is we were in position to draft a good player and muffed it for the unknown.

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Pretty bizarre gamble by our club with a pick 8......was really a stupidly risky move

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Pretty bizarre gamble by our club with a pick 8......was really a stupidly risky move

Sure, and there's no disputing that at this point, the move is proving to be ill-considered. However, if you watch that video about all the successful Melbourne trade and draft moves, they skipped the first round how many years in a row? Was it 2015-2018? And every trade within that window delivered them premiership players. It's almost ironic that we traded our pick 8 to the club that had been trading out of the first round the previous 3 years. So it's not necessarily a stupid move to trade pick 8, generally speaking. But 2019 clearly wasn't the right year to do it.

 

[perplexed]

Sure, and there's no disputing that at this point, the move is proving to be ill-considered. However, if you watch that video about all the successful Melbourne trade and draft moves, they skipped the first round how many years in a row? Was it 2015-2018? And every trade within that window delivered them premiership players. It's almost ironic that we traded our pick 8 to the club that had been trading out of the first round the previous 3 years. So it's not necessarily a stupid move to trade pick 8, generally speaking. But 2019 clearly wasn't the right year to do it.

The interesting thing about Melbourne's trading then was they didn't really want pick 8. They just wanted Pickett, who they could get with a later pick, so they traded 8 back to 10 and took him there.

Whilst us trading the pick was poor in hindsight, the real crime was using four of our eight picks in 2019 and 2020 on small midfielders with little versatility. It was completely nonsensical. At most you can have two of these players in a team, though you don't really need any. For a rebuilding team it was bizarre.

 

[LB2Snake]

Sure, and there's no disputing that at this point, the move is proving to be ill-considered. However, if you watch that video about all the successful Melbourne trade and draft moves, they skipped the first round how many years in a row? Was it 2015-2018? And every trade within that window delivered them premiership players. It's almost ironic that we traded our pick 8 to the club that had been trading out of the first round the previous 3 years. So it's not necessarily a stupid move to trade pick 8, generally speaking. But 2019 clearly wasn't the right year to do it.

Yeah I get it all that completely, great summation BTW. My point is you don't gamble on a mid round pick do you? The downside is pretty disastrous and the upside is pretty minimal. I just don't think the potential upside was worth it.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Yeah I get it all that completely, great summation BTW. My point is you don't gamble on a mid round pick do you? The downside is pretty disastrous and the upside is pretty minimal. I just don't think the potential upside was worth it.

Yes you are 100% correct.

I think the difference with Melbourne trading those first round picks is that they had a plan and they knew exactly what they were getting for the pick. We didn't. When you trade pick 8 to death ride a team that had an unexpected down year in the middle of a climb back up the ladder, chances are, you're taking a hit on the pick number to begin with. And secondly, what's the plan? You can't be targetting a specific player in a future draft when you don't know what draft pick you'll receive and what range the player you are chasing is going to fall.

So to summarise and reiterate, we had absolutely no idea what we would get for pick 8 whereas Melbourne knew exactly what they were getting each time they traded a first round pick.

 

[Merlin007]

Yes you are 100% correct.

I think the difference with Melbourne trading those first round picks is that they had a plan and they knew exactly what they were getting for the pick. We didn't. When you trade pick 8 to death ride a team that had an unexpected down year in the middle of a climb back up the ladder, chances are, you're taking a hit on the pick number to begin with. And secondly, what's the plan? You can't be targetting a specific player in a future draft when you don't know what draft pick you'll receive and what range the player you are chasing is going to fall.

So to summarise and reiterate, we had absolutely no idea what we would get for pick 8 whereas Melbourne knew exactly what they were getting each time they traded a first round pick.

excellent point - the difference between trading pick for a player (a more or less known quantity) and trading picks on spec.

Maybe 3rd and 4th rounders, but never again for a R1

 

[King Corey]

Melbourne played us on a break. We were so excited about doing a deal let alone doing one that turned a profit "on paper" we took the bait.

Again, it was Melbourne who initiated the deal. That should've had us much more cautious.

 

[disco_cowboy]

Yep and he won't make it.

Book mark it

what does this mean?

 

[William Caresser]

Whilst us trading the pick was poor in hindsight, the real crime was using four of our eight picks in 2019 and 2020 on small midfielders with little versatility. It was completely nonsensical. At most you can have two of these players in a team, though you don't really need any. For a rebuilding team it was bizarre.

It was a reaction to Richmond having so many agile, quick, versatile small players in their flag sides - Prestia (175cm), Lambert (178cm), Edwards (182cm) Houli (181cm), Short (178cm), Castagna (181cm), Rioli (179cm), Baker (173cm), Bolton (176cm). Most also under 80kg. But as you point out, these shorter players need to be versatile. And at Richmond and the Bulldogs in their flag year, they were.

At the time, we had a ton of slow, unagile 189cm players weighing 90kg who couldn't cover the ground.

Our recruiters probably expected Mahony (178) and Lazzaro (180 cm) to offer versatility and agility and perhaps were hoping that Philips (180cm) and Powell (184cm) could go forward. At the end of the day though, whether you're small or big, you have to be able to play. And like it or most probably not, those small Richmond players could definitely play.

 

[pupstar]

No. The recruiters are supposed to see talent like Serong, Kosi, Flanders, Warner, etc, and draft accordingly.

Comben aside, the 2019 draft was a massive **** up which compounded into 2020.

Taking covid out of the equation, the 2020 draft is looking to be the poorest draft year in a decade or so.



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A lot of recruiters missed Warner before the Swans picked him not just ours. And that goes for any number of other players as well. Can't believe people think it's just a North thing.

 

[Epictetus]

A lot of recruiters missed Warner before the Swans picked him not just ours. And that goes for any number of other players as well. Can't believe people think it's just a North thing.

Not hanging the club for missing one here and there, obviously. That's footy.

But when you are THIS bad, it means you've missed. You've missed a lot. In every way.

 

[pupstar]

Not hanging the club for missing one here and there, obviously. That's footy.

But when you are THIS bad, it means you've missed. You've missed a lot. In every way.

I don't see it the same way as you though. Since 20-16 we have drafted at least 1 player that is still on the list that would get a game in any of the 17 other team. No better or worse than most teams.

 

[koshari]

A lot of recruiters missed Warner before the Swans picked him not just ours. And that goes for any number of other players as well. Can't believe people think it's just a North thing.

The point is all the other perties took decent players before warner, we took a bloke that woulda been avail in the rookie draft.

 

[Ether]

A lot of recruiters missed Warner before the Swans picked him not just ours. And that goes for any number of other players as well. Can't believe people think it's just a North thing.

Geez the self flagellation over Warner is stupid. No one foresaw him becoming the player he has. Even Sydney rated Stephens and Will Gould ahead of him.

 

[pupstar]

The point is all the other perties took decent players before warner, we took a bloke that woulda been avail in the rookie draft.

Not even close to being accurate. Sydney took Stephens before Warner Crows took Mcasey before Warner Cats took Stephens before Warner. Blues took Philp before Warner. Should i continue.