Play Nice 45th President of the United States: Donald Trump - Part 9 - The Shi'ites Hit The Fan (Cont. in Part 10, see OP)

[Sweet Jesus]

Joe Biden's son was involved in Ukraine, so i am sure Trump wanted an investigation to see if dad could be linked which is why further inestion is needed to see if someone did ask directly for dirt on Joe Biden which the transcript is not entirely clear but you could be right in Trump meant Joe.

Joe Biden went to Ukraine while VP and on one visit insisted on the removal of Viktor Shokin as general prosecutor. That is what Trump is referring to.

It's clear if you understand the facts.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

But from what I read even if illegal it could be allowed by the constitution.

Good thing there are two other co-equal branches of government willing to do their jobs.

 

[Chief]

Good thing there are two other co-equal branches of government willing to do their jobs.

To everyone but Trumpies it seems to be a "high crime" and impeachable.

They really need to clean up their constitution. At the moment it's like installing a temporary king.

 

[Bombermania]

Joe Biden went to Ukraine while VP and on one visit insisted on the removal of Viktor Shokin as general prosecutor. That is what Trump is referring to.

It's clear if you understand the facts.

Yes but Joe's son was on the board of a company at the centre of alleged corruption which formed part of why Joe went there.

Basically Trump is hoping Joe went there to help get the company off but that is unlikely.

 

[bourbons]

So you accept that soliciting aid from a foreign government to assist a campaign is illegal.

And Trump told Zelenskiy: "There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it. It sounds horrible to me."

He is asking the Ukrainian president to investigate his political rival.

You say "it's still fairly new" like that makes the information here less damaging.

Guessing Trump will frame it not as aid from a foreign government to assist a campaign, but just him being a good citizen and interested in stopping corruption.

Complete horsesh1t of course, but if we're basing the assessment on the language as presented in the doc (its not a transcript) that was released today, I think it falls a fair way short of iron-clad.

 

[Mick F]

But from what I read even if illegal it could be allowed by the constitution.

Alexander Hamilton set out to establish a national government and to ensure its possession of adequate powers to achieve a national purpose. His thinking was that power was to be used; but equally, it was not to be abused.

 

[Mick F]

Yes but Joe's son was on the board of a company at the centre of alleged corruption which formed part of why Joe went there.

Basically Trump is hoping Joe went there to help get the company off but that is unlikely.

As intimated by sweet Jesus the investigation into the company commenced prior to Biden Jnr joining the Board.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Yes but Joe's son was on the board of a company at the centre of alleged corruption which formed part of why Joe went there.

Huh? Biden went to Ukraine regularly because he was VP. He was the Obama administration's point man in supporting the Ukrainian government at the time.

On one such visit, he intervened and urged the removal of Viktor Shokin as general prosecutor.

Again, Trump's remarks.

"There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that. So whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me."

He refers to Biden's son in the first part but the other references to Biden are Joe Biden.

He is asking the Ukrainian president to look into Joe Biden.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

If we're basing the assessment on the language as presented in the doc (its not a transcript) that was released today, I think it falls a fair way short of iron-clad.

He asked the Ukrainian government to investigate a political rival.

Anyone claiming that is not illegal has their work cut out for them.

 

[Bombermania]

As intimated by sweet Jesus the investigation into the company commenced prior to Biden Jnr joining the Board.

Yes that is right and Biden went to push for increased efforts to crack down on corruption

Huh? Biden went to Ukraine regularly because he was VP. He was the Obama administration's point man in supporting the Ukrainian government at the time.

On one such visit, he intervened and urged the removal of Viktor Shokin as general prosecutor.

Again, Trump's remarks.

"There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that. So whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me."

He refers to Biden's son in the first part but the other references to Biden are Joe Biden.

He is asking the Ukrainian president to look into Joe Biden.

They did discuss the dismissal of the general prosecutor but as Mick F mentions there had been alleged corruption at a company in the Ukraine with later links to Biden's son, that is why Trump was hoping could lead to Joe. Trump was possibly hoping Biden did something in both cases.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

They did discuss the dismissal of the general prosecutor but as Mick F mentions there had been alleged corruption at a company in the Ukraine with later links to Biden's son, that is why Trump was hoping could lead to Joe. Trump was possibly hoping Biden did something in both cases.

What is your point?

How does any of this mitigate the obvious fact that Trump asked the Ukrainian government to investigate Joe Biden?

 

[Bombermania]

What is your point?

How does any of this mitigate the obvious fact that Trump asked the Ukrainian government to investigate Joe Biden?

You are simply looking at a slice of the story, when the whole story needs to be looked at and that includes interviewing the others named in the transcript.

 

[bourbons]

I'm not defending Trump, I am simply pointing out that Trump could say that Biden is not a rival, and the fact that Biden was VP and is seen as a leading Democrat raises questions for Biden because what is a VP doing interfering in another country's legal system.

The same thing other countries and the IMF were doing - lobbying for the removal of a prosecutor based on his dubious record re: corruption.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Instead of repeating "illegal" 20 times how about we look at the actual facts.

Ukraine official brings up Trump's personal lawyer - Guiliani. Then says they will look into the Biden prosecutor issue (which they should) - Ukraine suggests the prosecutor that let Joe Biden's son off the hook may have been politically motivated to do so...(why else would Biden threaten to withhold 1 billion dollars while they are fighting a war with Russia...it's because Biden had something on the line and even bragged about it at the 'council on foreign relations'). Ukraine official says they'll look into it and the new prosecutor is better etc. Most importantly - Attorney general Barr did not call nor is there any evidence that he was directed to call. It was a throwaway by trump when mentioning Barr with Guiliani.

Since you like facts.

How about the fact that the prosecutor was investigating this company in 2013 and basically left the investigation dormant before Biden's son started on the board in 2014. How on earth could he be let off the hook for something he wasn't there for?

How about the fact there was a coalition of governments demanding the firing of this prosecutor over a myriad of corruption issues?

How about Biden telling Ukraine they should ensure that all investigations were continued?

He didn't target someone who was going after his son. He targeted someone who was considered corrupt by many countries, and who had ceased investigating the company his son was on the board of, before he joined the board.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love some mud to stick to Biden here. He's another Hillary - Republican Lite. He will achieve absolutely nothing for the US or the World. He'll just appear statesmanlike.

 

[bourbons]

Veiled threats because we disagree?

Why not just boot me and everyone else you disagree with and convince yourself you are right about everything ?

That's kinda the point Chief was making

 

[Bombermania]

Some reading material

Self-Impeaching: On the Trump-Zelensky Conversation

The misconduct cannot be dismissed as unproven; it screams off the plain text of the White House’s own memorandum detailing the president’s phone conversation with his Ukrainian counterpart.

www.lawfareblog.com

 

[Sweet Jesus]

You are simply looking at a slice of the story, when the whole story needs to be looked at and that includes interviewing the others named in the transcript.

I'm looking at the part of the story where Trump did something illegal.

What are you looking at?

Basically, you're enthusiastically distracted from the issue of Trump's conduct.

Oh yeah, Trump did something illegal but let's look at all these other things. That's called misdirection.

 

[bourbons]

the Ukraine investigation was into Biden's son, not Joe Biden. Trump might have hoped there was a link.

Not even into his son, rather the owner of the company the son was on the board of.

Everything I've read on it indicates its just Trump searching for an angle.

 

[iBeng]

Is no one else weirded out by America giving weapons to Ukraine to fight Russia? Isn't that sort of war signaling?

 

[The Speaker]

Is no one else weirded out by America giving weapons to Ukraine to fight Russia? Isn't that sort of war signaling?

Welcome to international relations.

 

[bourbons]

Anyway, at the end of the day its not even a transcript.

Instead, it is based on notes and recollections from Situation Room officers and National Security Council staff, who are assigned to listen to and document presidential conversations.

Why the "transcript" of Trump's Ukraine call isn't a complete transcript

There could be no full transcript or recording of the controversial phone call between the two leaders July 25

www.cbsnews.com

Someone asked a while back if we know when this doc was created - very important question imo. If it was whipped up in the last few days by Trump's admin its virtually worthless.

Probably not worth speculating further until the whistleblower himself testifies.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Someone asked a while back if we know when this doc was created - very important question imo. If it was whipped up in the last few days by Trump's admin its virtually worthless.

All the more damning if the WH thought this account made Trump look good.

Oh wait, you missed that little bit here that shows Trump breaking the law.

 

[CM86]

View attachment 753403

The Speaker Did you mean to loveheart/infatuation this copy pasta?

 

[magpie_marty]

Even someone with the meanest of intellects .... a soldier who kills a combatant in a war has not committed murder per se. A CIA operative acting under lawful directions it is not corrupt.

UM I think and Aussie soldier has been charged for kicking an Iraq person of a cliff,
Anyways your missing the whole point of this convo.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Is no one else weirded out by America giving weapons to Ukraine to fight Russia? Isn't that sort of war signaling?

No. Not at all. NATO and the west broadly need to be standing up to Putin. His plan for Ukraine as a vassal buffer state is not very friendly to Ukraine or what their people want.