Play Nice 46th President of the United States: Joe Biden 2: Incidit in scyllam cupiens vitare charybdim

[spinynorman]

You keep telling us who you wouldn't vote for but offer no alternatives.

Who is your number 1 pick for US President?

I mean, I said in this quote I'd vote for Williamson over Biden. Cornel West too, as bad as his campaign has been.

It's a dire situation, no doubt, but unfortunately the Democrats are an awful party who should’ve been wound up in 1865. In an ideal world, I would've liked someone like Cori Bush to run a challenge. In this one, I might’ve made do with someone like Gretchen Whitmer.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

I mean, I said in this quote I'd vote for Williamson over Biden. Cornel West too, as bad as his campaign has been.

It's a dire situation, no doubt, but unfortunately the Democrats are an awful party who should’ve been wound up in 1865. In an ideal world, I would've liked someone like Cori Bush to run a challenge. In this one, I might’ve made do with someone like Gretchen Whitmer.

In the post of yours I quoted you said "she (Williamson) wouldn't be close to your first pick" but yet when I ask who your first pick would be, you list her. Weird.

Sounds like there is no such thing as a perfect candidate and we all have to make compromises.

 

[spinynorman]

In the post of yours I quoted you said "she (Williamson) wouldn't be close to your first pick" but yet when I ask who your first pick would be, you list her. Weird.

I meant she wouldn’t be close to my first pick in the context of “people challenging Biden for the Democratic candidacy” but acknowledge that mightn’t have been clear.

Sounds like there is no such thing as a perfect candidate and we all have to make compromises.

For sure. Thankfully I’m 1) not an American 2) in the handful of states where my vote would matter, so don’t have to go through the angst of “can I bring myself to vote for Biden in order to stop Trump?” All most of us can do is march (which I’ve been doing) and express our disgust online. I see Biden got interrupted numerous times in his latest rally by demonstrators, and hope he’s hounded by them until he changes course and/or resigns.

 

[Maggie5]

“can I bring myself to vote for Biden in order to stop Trump?”

Absolutely!

I see Biden got interrupted numerous times in his latest rally by demonstrators

Certainly handled the protesters well and also helped by his supporters drowning them out.

I thought it was great viewing.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

I meant she wouldn’t be close to my first pick in the context of “people challenging Biden for the Democratic candidacy” but acknowledge that mightn’t have been clear.



For sure. Thankfully I’m 1) not an American 2) in the handful of states where my vote would matter, so don’t have to go through the angst of “can I bring myself to vote for Biden in order to stop Trump?” All most of us can do is march (which I’ve been doing) and express our disgust online. I see Biden got interrupted numerous times in his latest rally by demonstrators, and hope he’s hounded by them until he changes course and/or resigns.

So who is your number 1 pick to run for US President?

The US is a very right wing country as a whole. Policy-wise, Biden would be a centre right Liberal party member in Australia but in the US is criticised as "far left" and still barely has any support. And you think running a further left candidate is a better proposition???

At this stage, we just need Biden to beat Trump in this election. Most Biden defenders here would never vote for his policies if he ran in Australia.

 

[spinynorman]

Absolutely!

I know in the Gaza thread we share the same horror of the slaughter being perpetrated there, and believe Biden is wrong to be providing the enormous support he has to the Israeli government in carrying this out. My view (and one shared by many voters who would notionally vote Democrat) is that this makes it impossible to support Biden, who has blood on his hands. That’s of course not the same as supporting Trump, who obviously wouldn’t be better, but more a matter of “can I be emotionally invested in Biden winning?” Given your forthright response, I’m assuming you have no such qualms, and am curious on how you reconcile that?

Certainly handled the protesters well and also helped by his supporters drowning them out.

I thought it was great viewing.

And I’m particularly curious how you reconcile this, given the protesters were demonstrating against his complicity in the slaughter of innocents. They’re obviously not Republicans or Trumpists; is your sympathy not with them moreso than with Biden?

 

[Maggie5]

I know in the Gaza thread we share the same horror of the slaughter being perpetrated there, and believe Biden is wrong to be providing the enormous support he has to the Israeli government in carrying this out. My view (and one shared by many voters who would notionally vote Democrat) is that this makes it impossible to support Biden, who has blood on his hands. That’s of course not the same as supporting Trump, who obviously wouldn’t be better, but more a matter of “can I be emotionally invested in Biden winning?” Given your forthright response, I’m assuming you have no such qualms, and am curious on how you reconcile that?

Wow, such an emotive and triggering post!
Sadly you can remain curious as you don't deserve a reply.

And I’m particularly curious how you reconcile this, given the protesters were demonstrating against his complicity in the slaughter of innocents. They’re obviously not Republicans or Trumpists; is your sympathy not with them moreso than with Biden?

Ditto!

 

[spinynorman]

So who is your number 1 pick to run for US President?

As I said, probably Cori Bush. I mean, Ilhan Omar is the person in elected US politics I admire most, but an incredibly anachronistic section of the constitution bans her from being President - it should be overturned but that doesn’t seem likely for the moment.

The US is a very right wing country as a whole. Policy-wise, Biden would be a centre right Liberal party member in Australia but in the US is criticised as "far left" and still barely has any support. And you think running a further left candidate is a better proposition???

At this stage, we just need Biden to beat Trump in this election. Most Biden defenders here would never vote for his policies if he ran in Australia.

I disagree with this line that the US is a very right wing country - it is governed by the right and so in that sense yes, but I don’t think that’s an inherent part of its being (the US was a Jim Crow nation until activist movements fought until it was no longer so).

I don’t think Biden will lose the election because he’s viewed as too left wing. I also think Sanders would’ve beaten Trump in 2016 and likely would’ve fared better than Biden in 2020 (nonetheless, Bernie has not been in any substantive way better about what’s happening to Gazans now, but then also his vision was for a mass politics that would’ve likely held him more accountable to the Democratic base, than the ongoing status quo that leaves the base accountable to their elected officials in providing adequate support).

 

[Bloods86]

So who is your number 1 pick to run for US President?

The US is a very right wing country as a whole. Policy-wise, Biden would be a centre right Liberal party member in Australia but in the US is criticised as "far left" and still barely has any support. And you think running a further left candidate is a better proposition???

At this stage, we just need Biden to beat Trump in this election. Most Biden defenders here would never vote for his policies if he ran in Australia.

I'll butt in.

Similarly, I'd say Williamson, as the most progressive candidate running (and eligible), however I'm not sure she'd do better than Biden, given she's a quieter temperament and that probably won't help against Trump.

If it's an establishment pick, probably Whitmer from Michigan. Midwest, they'll win the state anyway, but might also help in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Experienced, moreso than say Shapiro (Penn), who would have to exit in his first term, or Moore (Maryland). Beshear (in his 2nd term as Kentucky governor) might make a decent running mate, though he is on the conservative side.

I actually don't think that the US is as conservative as we make it out to be. The political system and much of the media skew the resulting nominees more conservative. Bernie was pretty popular among Dems and Independents, including some people who then voted for Trump, before the DNC and media scare campaigns kicked in and fell in behind Biden.

My non politician option, and who I actually think is a good matchup for Trump, as I've said before, is Jon Stewart. Well known, sharp, funny, good in debate mode. Yeah, he's to the left of Biden, but Trump's true fans think Biden is socialist and aren't switching anyway. Independents put off by Trump, but equally perceptions about Biden's age and inaction, might be swayed. He'd pull more left-wing votes and he has admiration from veteran and first responder groups, given his advocacy for them. Word of mouth, endorsements etc can help there. He even has some begrudging respect from conservatives over that, which may not get their vote, but could influence independents if they hear that. Someone like Whitmer as a running mate, or flip it and have Stewart as VP with the above as his priorities e.g. veterans administration.

Plus anything to piss off Tucker Carlson.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

As I said, probably Cori Bush. I mean, Ilhan Omar is the person in elected US politics I admire most, but an incredibly anachronistic section of the constitution bans her from being President - it should be overturned but that doesn’t seem likely for the moment.



I disagree with this line that the US is a very right wing country - it is governed by the right and so in that sense yes, but I don’t think that’s an inherent part of its being (the US was a Jim Crow nation until activist movements fought until it was no longer so).

I don’t think Biden will lose the election because he’s viewed as too left wing. I also think Sanders would’ve beaten Trump in 2016 and likely would’ve fared better than Biden in 2020 (nonetheless, Bernie has not been in any substantive way better about what’s happening to Gazans now, but then also his vision was for a mass politics that would’ve likely held him more accountable to the Democratic base, than the ongoing status quo that leaves the base accountable to their elected officials in providing adequate support).

Sorry, in your original reply you listed 4 different people so it wasn't quite clear who your pick was. Based on the little I know about Bush she has some good policies but sadly there is no way she would win an election in the US.

The US is as right or left wing as its policies. At the moment, by western standards it is quite right wing. He'll, even Bernie calls himself a "democratic socialist" when by our standards he'd be a run of the mill Labor politician.

Agreed, he would have been better than Hilary in 2016 but he was too left for the "far left" Democrat party machine.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

I'll butt in.

Similarly, I'd say Williamson, as the most progressive candidate running (and eligible), however I'm not sure she'd do better than Biden, given she's a quieter temperament and that probably won't help against Trump.

If it's an establishment pick, probably Whitmer from Michigan. Midwest, they'll win the state anyway, but might also help in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Experienced, moreso than say Shapiro (Penn), who would have to exit in his first term, or Moore (Maryland). Beshear (in his 2nd term as Kentucky governor) might make a decent running mate, though he is on the conservative side.

I actually don't think that the US is as conservative as we make it out to be. The political system and much of the media skew the resulting nominees more conservative. Bernie was pretty popular among Dems and Independents, including some people who then voted for Trump, before the DNC and media scare campaigns kicked in and fell in behind Biden.

My non politician option, and who I actually think is a good matchup for Trump, as I've said before, is Jon Stewart. Well known, sharp, funny, good in debate mode. Yeah, he's to the left of Biden, but Trump's true fans think Biden is socialist and aren't switching anyway. Independents put off by Trump, but equally perceptions about Biden's age and inaction, might be swayed. He'd pull more left-wing votes and he has admiration from veteran and first responder groups, given his advocacy for them. Word of mouth, endorsements etc can help there. He even has some begrudging respect from conservatives over that, which may not get their vote, but could influence independents if they hear that. Someone like Whitmer as a running mate, or flip it and have Stewart as VP with the above as his priorities e.g. veterans administration.

Plus anything to piss off Tucker Carlson.

Stewart would be a great candidate. I wish he'd run. Not sure why he doesn't.

 

[Bareth Garry]

I know in the Gaza thread we share the same horror of the slaughter being perpetrated there, and believe Biden is wrong to be providing the enormous support he has to the Israeli government in carrying this out. My view (and one shared by many voters who would notionally vote Democrat) is that this makes it impossible to support Biden, who has blood on his hands. That’s of course not the same as supporting Trump, who obviously wouldn’t be better, but more a matter of “can I be emotionally invested in Biden winning?” Given your forthright response, I’m assuming you have no such qualms, and am curious on how you reconcile that?



And I’m particularly curious how you reconcile this, given the protesters were demonstrating against his complicity in the slaughter of innocents. They’re obviously not Republicans or Trumpists; is your sympathy not with them moreso than with Biden?

It appears at least some of them are members of a group called CodePink who have the spent last year and a half justifying Russia's bombing of Ukraine (after initially mocking an invasion would happen as CIA propaganda only to then justify Putin's decision a week later), victim blaming Ukrainians as well as running cover Assad/Putin's bombings and killings of Syrians which is ongoing as we speak. A social media phenomena of the last few months has been Assad supporters in the west like CodePink who deny those atrocities in Syria happened are now posting videos of those atrocities claiming it is in Gaza.

There's legitimate and organic protests that care for all humanity and if Gaza is the red line for you or them on Biden, fine. He should have cut Israel off in my view. He should have used the weakness of Netanyahu after October 7 to say "you cannot go ahead with an invasion and kill 1 Hamas fighter for every 1000 civilians" and if Netanyahu went ahead regardless then he would be toppled internally as a pariah. He has squandered a tremendous opportunity to reorientate the politics of this region. But this group's actions and many people like that are hypocrites to the extent they are not anti-war but simply anti-west.

 

[Satan]

Stewart would be a great candidate. I wish he'd run. Not sure why he doesn't.

This
Jon Stewart will return to the Comedy Central’s The Daily Show next month, nine years after he retired from the program.

 

[Crow54]

Strong support starting to come out for Biden.

 

[BigTacoBandit]

This
Jon Stewart will return to the Comedy Central’s The Daily Show next month, nine years after he retired from the program.

Starting to (re) raise his profile...

 

[spinynorman]

Sorry, in your original reply you listed 4 different people so it wasn't quite clear who your pick was. Based on the little I know about Bush she has some good policies but sadly there is no way she would win an election in the US.

I agree she’d likely not get much (she’s not particularly well known), but then Bernie wasn’t seen as anything of note when he first announced in 2015.

I don’t like the whole “be an amateur prognosticator” thing in terms of electability. I think you can only find who speaks to your concerns and hope they speak to others (and spread the word on their behalf). I remember during the 2020 primary Nate Silver or someone of his ilk commented that Amy Klobuchar was the most electable candidate and that her polling so badly showed that wasn’t a priority to Democratic primary voters. And I thought the dissonance in that was pretty astonishing, but is the issue with people treating politics as a science.

(I also remember living in the UK during the Corbyn elections and in 2019 a campaign to “vote tactical”, advocating for Lib Dem votes. And so there were seats where they went Tory and where Labour massively outpolled the Lib Dems, who people were told were the tactical anti-Conservative vote. Basically, I think a lot of the “think tactical, not ideological” view of politics is wrongheaded.)

 

[spinynorman]

It appears at least some of them are members of a group called CodePink who have the spent last year and a half justifying Russia's bombing of Ukraine (after initially mocking an invasion would happen as CIA propaganda only to then justify Putin's decision a week later), victim blaming Ukrainians as well as running cover Assad/Putin's bombings and killings of Syrians which is ongoing as we speak. A social media phenomena of the last few months has been Assad supporters in the west like CodePink who deny those atrocities in Syria happened are now posting videos of those atrocities claiming it is in Gaza.

There's legitimate and organic protests that care for all humanity and if Gaza is the red line for you or them on Biden, fine. He should have cut Israel off in my view. He should have used the weakness of Netanyahu after October 7 to say "you cannot go ahead with an invasion and kill 1 Hamas fighter for every 1000 civilians" and if Netanyahu went ahead regardless then he would be toppled internally as a pariah. He has squandered a tremendous opportunity to reorientate the politics of this region. But this group's actions and many people like that are hypocrites to the extent they are not anti-war but simply anti-west.

I don’t know anything about CodePink but will take what you say about them on face value. That said, the majority of pro-Palestinians who are holding it against Biden would be progressive, anti-war people and, as a general rule, should be taken on face value.

 

[spinynorman]

 

[happy_eagle]

Is this supposed to be evidence of something other than a president that manages a speech impediment ?


Btw there is plenty of evidence out there of Biden being old, but this clip ain't it.

 

[Crow54]

This is the message the Dems need to get out there. Perhaps concentrate for a while more on what they've done, and less on the repulsive alternative.

 

[happy_eagle]

 

[Satan]

He is no reporter or anything else

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Sh*t is going down in Texas!

Greg Abbott uses "supreme law" of Texas to give soldiers power over Biden

Abbott and the Justice Department have been duking it out in court over a number of migrant deterrent tactics.

www.newsweek.com

Jan 24, 2024

Texas Governor Greg Abbott has declared his state's "right to self-defense," using "the supreme law of the land" to give soldiers power over President Joe Biden on immigration at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Abbott and the Justice Department have been duking it out in court over a number of deterrent tactics that the governor has tried to use to stop the surge of migrants illegally crossing into the U.S. through the southern border. The tactics have included a floating barrier across the Rio Grande and razor-wire fencing.

In the 2023 fiscal year, which ended in September, U.S. Border Patrol (USBP) had 3.2 million encounters, according to agency data. Encounter data includes USBP Title 8 Apprehensions, Office of Field Operations (OFO) Title 8 Inadmissibles and Title 42 Expulsions.

Abbott issued a statement on Wednesday criticizing Biden for violating "his oath to faithfully execute immigration laws enacted by Congress."

In his statement, Abbott said the Biden administration's failure to "protect each [State] against invasion," as stated in Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution, "has triggered Article I, § 10, Clause 3, "which reserves to this State the right of self-defense.

"For these reasons, I have already declared an invasion under Article I, § 10, Clause 3 to invoke Texas's constitutional authority to defend and protect itself. That authority is the supreme law of the land and supersedes any federal statutes to the contrary."

Abbott said that the "Texas National Guard, the Texas Department of Public Safety, and other Texas personnel are acting on that authority, as well as state law, to secure the Texas border..."

and

Biden admin responds to push to seize Texas National Guard from Greg Abbott

Democrats have urged Biden to take control of the Texas National Guard amid the latest border dispute with Abbott.

www.newsweek.com

Jan 25, 2024

White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre responded to calls for President Joe Biden to seize the Texas National Guard amid his border battle with Texas Governor Greg Abbott.

Some Democrats, including Texas Representative Joaquin Castro, have urged Biden to take Texas' National Guard under federal control if Abbott defies a Supreme Court order allowing federal agents to remove razor wire from a section of the U.S.-Mexico border.

Jean-Pierre responded to these calls during an interview on CNN Thursday morning.

"We want to make sure we get something done at the border. That's why we have been having these conversations with Senate Republicans and Democrats for the past several weeks to come up with a bipartisan agreement to deal with the border," she said.

She continued: "Look, if the governor is not interested in that—Governor Abbott is not interested in that, he wants to politicize an issue, and he's not helping communities, he actually isn't, and he's actually putting border patrol agents in harm's way by doing what he's doing. I'm not going to speak to any actions that the president might take, might not take, but we have been very clear about it."

Calls for Biden to federalize the Texas National Guard come amid a surge in tensions between Biden and Abbott over the U.S.-Mexico border. Abbott and other Republicans have blamed Biden's approach to immigration for an uptick in migrants seeking asylum at the border. Texas has constructed razor-wire along the border, prompting legal action from the Biden administration, which argued the state lacks the legal authority...

 

[GreyCrow]

Why didnt Abbott build a wall?

Anyway Abbott hasnt got a leg to stand on

 

[jatz14]

I know in the Gaza thread we share the same horror of the slaughter being perpetrated there, and believe Biden is wrong to be providing the enormous support he has to the Israeli government in carrying this out. My view (and one shared by many voters who would notionally vote Democrat) is that this makes it impossible to support Biden, who has blood on his hands. That’s of course not the same as supporting Trump, who obviously wouldn’t be better, but more a matter of “can I be emotionally invested in Biden winning?” Given your forthright response, I’m assuming you have no such qualms, and am curious on how you reconcile that?



And I’m particularly curious how you reconcile this, given the protesters were demonstrating against his complicity in the slaughter of innocents. They’re obviously not Republicans or Trumpists; is your sympathy not with them moreso than with Biden?

Because voting on a single issue is almost always a mistake.

No realistic candidate is going to have a substantially different policy on Gaza, and no realistic candidate is going to have a materially different affect on the progress of the war.

So, if I have an interest in something else, such as, resisting the spread of fascist like policy in the US, I shouldn't support the candidate most likely to affect that outcome, because of his policies on Gaza.

If there was a candidate with a chance of winning, who could end the war, and roll back Trumpism, sure, has my support.


Because as I see it, the current options on the table are.

Stop Trump, but not stop the war and,
Not stop Trump, not stop the war.

Option 1 for me.

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