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You can't win in India without at least one class spinner. Simple as that.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
4th Test: India v Australia @ Nagpur (Thu-Mon)
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Has a pretty fair record against Australia in Australia.
It sounds like you're having a backhanded dig at him, but make no mistake, Australia would have won this series just gone were Vettori in the Aussie colors.
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Vettori in India - 17 wickets at 51.52 from 5 tests.
Vettori in Australia - 30 wickets at 40.06 from 9 tests
And Murali gets criticized for having taken cheap wickets against easy opposition:
vs. Bangladesh - 46 wickets at 14.15 from 8 tests
Vettori in Australia - 30 wickets at 40.06 from 9 tests
And Murali gets criticized for having taken cheap wickets against easy opposition:
vs. Bangladesh - 46 wickets at 14.15 from 8 tests
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I'm willing to stand corrected, but i'll wait until this upcoming series is finished before I concede
They dropped Vaughan for the last Test against SA and he won't be coming back.
Those stats I feel are misleading. Remember Vettori has no-one up the other end to give him any support whatsoever, so he has to build up pressure from the other end. 30 wickets from 9 Tests against us isn't bad when you consider we'd be going after him.
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True, however, Vettori's test average of 33 is respectable. With the exception of Sri Lanka and the West Indies (mostly home series too), who he averages around mid 20's against. Everything else is nothing to write home about.
Murali's profile is increased by the sheer mass of wickets he's taken against the minnows, but his record against other nations still stands well.
Vettori's profile is increased thanks to his average against Bangladesh, stopping him from a test average that almost creeps into the 40's.
I expect Vettori's average against Australia to be fairly decent at the end of the upcoming series, for the simple fact he'll have to bowl himself for 50 odd overs at one end (no Patel in the squad either), and no other bloke is going to take a large sum of wickets either (maybe Gillespie if conditions suit and batsmen are lured into stupid shots)
If he ends up with 4/150 off 50 odd, his average will still be better than it was than he started.
Here's something I did a while back so the data is a bit out-of-date, but it represented my argument at the time.
Muralitharan told the paper he and Warne were not on good terms before these latest problems, as he believed Warne considered Muralitharan had collected too many cheap Test wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Although 163 of Muralitharan's Test victims have been Zimbabwe or Bangladesh players, he also has an outstanding record against England and South Africa and says he can only play whoever Sri Lanka is scheduled to face."
NOTE: The first Average column = runs/wicket. The last Average column represents wickets/game
Ok, so obviously, Murali has taken a lot of wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. However, Murali has taken on average, one more wicket per game than Shane against every other team. Shane has only taken more wickets per game against Pakistan (only 0.4 wickets/game difference). Murali's average (runs/wicket) is also better than Shane's against every team (excluding Zimbabwe and Bangladesh). While they pretty much average the same number of wickets per game against each other, Shane goes for less runs.
On wickets against minnows - how about some criticism for Warney's 195 against the hapless poms! 35 blinking tests no less! compared to poor old Murali's 13
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Warne took his wickets against better opposition and did it on pitches that offered pretty much nothing for spin bowlers. Not to mention the fact Murali always has and always will have an asterisk next to his name.
even though murali is a chucker, just about every comparison that can be made (only playing away from home.. vs other specific teams etc) - he always trumps warne's record.
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The squad New Zealand has named is only for the first Test. Patel could still be named for the other Tests.
It's an interesting little exercise deleting performances against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe from various players record to see how they fair without them.
I'd be intrigued to see how Ponting, Tendulkar, Dravid, Kallis and Lara fair without Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.
I know for example, Steve Wuagh's average dips below 50 without the benefit of big runs against those two nations in his final year.
I'd be intrigued to see how Ponting, Tendulkar, Dravid, Kallis and Lara fair without Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.
I know for example, Steve Wuagh's average dips below 50 without the benefit of big runs against those two nations in his final year.
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn’t Sachin average more against Australia than any other nation. I have respect for that he is one of only a select few who saves his best for the big games. Put Punter in that category as well.
Gotta look beyond the stats though
Murali plays 70% of his matches at home where pitches are specifically doctored for him. Whereas Warnie plays most of them in Aus on pitches that are essentially better for batsmen and quicks and has a superb record all around Aus
Plus Warne's impact on games is heads and shoulders above Murali's. How many times when Australia was in a hole and Warnie just lifts and pulls them out of it and win some Tests on his own wrists? Gotta look beyond the stats.
Remembered Warne's comeback series in Sri Lanka for his drug ban where him and Murali got around the same amount of wickets, but there was a massive difference between their impact in games. Murali would get his wickets when Aus already had the runs on the board and looking to play some shots and get declaration while Warne kept getting bags of vital wickets when Aus needed it most and won all 3 Tests for his country
Can look at stats all ya want but it only shows so much. Shaun Pollock has a better bowling average than Dennis Lillee, really means nothing
Any statistic where you are using wickets per game with Murali is useless - he averages more overs per match any other bowler in history.
Look at the strike rates, that is what matters. If Warne bowled as much as Murali, and played against the minnows much, he would have finished with 1000 wickets.
Your wrong, he averages more against Zim, Bangas, West Indies, Sri Lanka. His record against South Africa is shithouse too, the no2 team.
without the minnows Tendulkar would only average like 51
Waugh only averaged just over 50 in his final year. But yeah, without his 5 gimme tests vs Bangladesh and zim only averages 48.
you can do it with statsguru pretty easily. Kallis' average drops heaps without his plundering of the minnows.
If Ponting had played more tests against zimbabwe and bangas he would be averaging about 63 in test cricket.
Its like Sangakarra, he is a fantasic player, averaged 55 in test cricket... until you take out zimbabwe and bangas, he averages just a tick over 50.
Warne's strike rate: 57.49
Warne's strike rate without Bang and Zimb: 56.98
Murali's strike rate: 54.23
Murali's strike rate without Bang and Zimb: 57.9
Not much of a difference.
When you look at how many balls they have deliver - over 40,000 even a small difference is significant.. but the main point i'm making is that their strike rates are similiar, indeed Warne's is quite a bit better against non-minnows. Ergo, if Warne was bowling the same amount of deliveries, and had played more tests against the minnows he would have ended up with alot more wickets.
Statisically they are quite close - with Warne having the edge. Murali has just padded his record with minnows.
There is also significant statistics to support that if Murali played as many away tests, against non minnows, he would be significantly behind Warne on basically everything.
Warne's record is actually better away from home, he didn't have the luxury of curators preparing dust bowls for him every match.
Statisically they are quite close - with Warne having the edge. Murali has just padded his record with minnows.
There is also significant statistics to support that if Murali played as many away tests, against non minnows, he would be significantly behind Warne on basically everything.
Warne's record is actually better away from home, he didn't have the luxury of curators preparing dust bowls for him every match.
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