AFL Player # 5: Elijah Tsatas

[TheGrizz]

Contract Status: Out of contract 2026
2024 My Boy Draft: Pick 14, Lore

 

[NAB777]

Most efficient would’ve been his handballs. Give him time no doubt but don’t think influences VFL as much as he should in his second year

Wouldn't have missed more than 2 hb, I would have thought - which puts his kicking at ~ 40%.

 

[Agronomus]

Also remember this was a Scott pick because he wanted runners.

 

[Nifft]

This is why I laugh when people suggest that we trade players like Parish for picks. The next sentence is to back that up by mentioning who they would have picked instead of who we did pick.

That said, the prevailing view at the time seemed to be that he had an elite ability to power away from stoppage yeah? Maybe he was just a bit bigger a stronger than the kids he was playing against?

Bit harsh on Hobbs though. He has some good traits. Also, I’m holding out hope that we can get something out of Tsatas over the next couple of years. He has put his head down apparently so let’s give him another year or two and see what happens.

I get that picks are speculative, but I'm starting to wonder if our whole recruiting department is dysfuncional, because nothing seems balanced. We've been very lucky with some of the mid season pickups, but if we hadn't gotten those guys I think our team would be stuffed.

 

[BrunoV]

This is why I laugh when people suggest that we trade players like Parish for picks. The next sentence is to back that up by mentioning who they would have picked instead of who we did pick.

That said, the prevailing view at the time seemed to be that he had an elite ability to power away from stoppage yeah? Maybe he was just a bit bigger a stronger than the kids he was playing against?

Bit harsh on Hobbs though. He has some good traits. Also, I’m holding out hope that we can get something out of Tsatas over the next couple of years. He has put his head down apparently so let’s give him another year or two and see what happens.

I am not sure the best way forward is to hold on to ineffective players just because our recruiters and list managers don't know what they are doing.

We need to find competent recruiters and list managers.

 

[BrunoV]

38 disposals @ 60.5% disposal efficiency - equals 23 effective disposals.

You'd much rather 23 @ 90% for the day.

That includes 17 handballs. If you're not handballing at 85% or above something is seriously wrong.

As for his 21 kicks, 'efficient' and 'effective' are statistical categories which do not mean that the kicks reached the intended target. They are objective categories based on things like how far the kick travelled and whether it went to what is perceived to be a good or dangerous spot without being marked. It's a junk stat which says almost nothing about the quality of disposal because it doesn't have any weighting for targets hits (despite the fact that so many players miss targets they should not be missing).

Tsatas could not hit 1 target and be credited with 100% disposal efficiency.

Or looked at another way 60% disposal efficiency could be a scenario in which a player nails 6 darts and gets pressured into 4 turnovers; or it could be 6 x 40m kicks which miss a leading forward and 4 utter shanks.

 

[bombreys]

I get that picks are speculative, but I'm starting to wonder if our whole recruiting department is dysfuncional, because nothing seems balanced. We've been very lucky with some of the mid season pickups, but if we hadn't gotten those guys I think our team would be stuffed.

Interesting point.

I’ve counted 4 (Heppell, McGrath, Perkins, Cox) as first rounders we’ve drafted currently in our best 22.

No idea if that’s about average, but it does sound quite low.

 

[faible]

Interesting point.

I’ve counted 4 (Heppell, McGrath, Perkins, Cox) as first rounders we’ve drafted currently in our best 22.

No idea if that’s about average, but it does sound quite low.

Going back to 2010 as 1st round draftees playing Geelong have 4(+1):
Cam Guthrie
Sam De Koning
Max Holmes
Jhye Clark
*Connor O'Sullivan (only played the one game this season in R5)

Collingwood have 6(+2):
DeGoey
Moore (F/S)
Quaynor
Fin Macrae
Reef McInnes
Nick Daicos (F/S)
*Ed Allan (1 game in R11 this year)
*Harry Dimattia (yet to debut)

Essendon 6(+5):
Heppell
Langford
Laverde
McGrath
Cox
Perkins
*Hobbs (right on the fringes of the Best 22)
*Tsatas (11 games)
*Caddy (2 games as a young KPP)
*Parish (inj.)
*Reid (inj.)

People forget Langford and Laverde were 1st rounders.

 

[DERO]

I am not sure the best way forward is to hold on to ineffective players just because our recruiters and list managers don't know what they are doing.

We need to find competent recruiters and list managers.

You'd turf Tsatas already?

 

[ant555]

Also remember this was a Scott pick because he wanted runners.

Yeah . Scott really did ask them to pick a bloke who has kicking issues and no defense after being in the Job for **** all time.
All he did was ask for a midfielder with outside speed . Blame RFK . He was the one who pushed for Tsatas.

 

[Vander18]

Yeah . Scott really did ask them to pick a bloke who has kicking issues and no defense after being in the Job for **** all time.
All he did was ask for a midfielder with outside speed . Blame RFK . He was the one who pushed for Tsatas.

Wasn’t it also Mahoney v Dodo on this one? Mahoney aligned to RFK while Dodo wanted Phillipou.

The bloke we never talk about as an hindsight option with this pick is Ginbey. He’s a big brute with some swagger. I like him. Obviously being a WA boy was a barrier….

 

[bombreys]

Going back to 2010 as 1st round draftees playing Geelong have 4(+1):
Cam Guthrie
Sam De Koning
Max Holmes
Jhye Clark
*Connor O'Sullivan (only played the one game this season in R5)

Collingwood have 6(+2):
DeGoey
Moore (F/S)
Quaynor
Fin Macrae
Reef McInnes
Nick Daicos (F/S)
*Ed Allan (1 game in R11 this year)
*Harry Dimattia (yet to debut)

Essendon 6(+5):
Heppell
Langford
Laverde
McGrath
Cox
Perkins
*Hobbs (right on the fringes of the Best 22)
*Tsatas (11 games)
*Caddy (2 games as a young KPP)
*Parish (inj.)
*Reid (inj.)

People forget Langford and Laverde were 1st rounders.

Ah, you are correct - my bad. Could have sworn they were 2nd rounders - for some reason I thought they were taken straight after one another too.

For some reason I also thought Max Holmes was like pick 30 odd.

I’m losing it.

 

[ant555]

Wasn’t it also Mahoney v Dodo on this one? Mahoney aligned to RFK while Dodo wanted Phillipou.

The bloke we never talk about as an hindsight option with this pick is Ginbey. He’s a big brute with some swagger. I like him. Obviously being a WA boy was a barrier….

No. RFK was always the one who had the final say. He was / is the head of recruiting. Mahoney was having his power trimmed with both Vozzo and McPherson coming in before the draft. The new guys made it clear it was RFK making the final call.
Ginbey had a couple of supporters on this board.

 

[Happyskeret]

Wasn’t it also Mahoney v Dodo on this one? Mahoney aligned to RFK while Dodo wanted Phillipou.

The bloke we never talk about as an hindsight option with this pick is Ginbey. He’s a big brute with some swagger. I like him. Obviously being a WA boy was a barrier….

Ginbey can also play in a couple of different positions.

 

[Petrify]

Idk if Tsatas is a bust yet. We have very high expectations for a kid who's only 19 and had a knee injury after being drafted.

That being said, he has to improve his kicking massively.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Sorry, is there something wrong with his kicking?

 

[yodellinhank]

Sorry, is there something wrong with his kicking?

We're not allowed to talk about it

 

[BrunoV]

You'd turf Tsatas already?

For a pick, yes.

 

[ghostdog]

Having done a bit of research on goals against from turnover (we average 8.7 against this year) we have a serious issue in regards to the fact he kicks at under 50% . Personally I do not see the fix in his kicking so we have a serious issue. We have spent a top 10 pick on a bloke who can find the footy but will not fix one of our major issues. I know people throw up Watson as not a great kick but Jobe's issue was not really in his action and more a lazy ball drop that improved because he put a lot of time into the concentration part but also improved when his fitness went up and the fatigue factor was less.
Tsatas just can not get any timing on the ball when he tries to kick it with any power.
I have stayed on the fence a bit to see where he has been going. He has improved his defensive effort and tackling effort which is good but he can not demand a spot in the side if he is going to butcher the footy 3 out of every 5 kicks.
Hate to say it but I just can not see him as the guy.

Welcome to the dark side.
In and under or burst out of a stoppage. Handball only.

 

[ghostdog]

Cal's draft rankings had him at number 4 in July, then at number 3 thereafter until the draft.

No mention of his kicking, although I note that Cal does tend to focus on positive attributes.

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' July ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey rates the performances so far of 2022's top 25 draft prospects

www.afl.com.au

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' August ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey rates the performances so far of 2022's top 30 draft prospects

www.afl.com.au

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' September ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey rates takes a look at 2022's top 30 draft prospects

www.afl.com.au

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' October ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey rates the performances of 30 of 2022's top draft prospects

www.afl.com.au

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' November ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey rates the performances of 30 of 2022's top draft prospects

www.afl.com.au

Rookieme says kicking was a strength, but then goes on to say the following:

"His kicking on the other hand could use some improvement with a lack of penetration at times and he tends to kick out one step after marks which can loop up and put his teammates under pressure, but kicking inside 50 he often kicks to advantage and makes the right decisions so there is certainly no big concern but overall could be better."

View attachment 2036160

Elijah Tsatas Draft Profile

central.rookieme.com

It certainly seems to imply a fairly minor issue, not gross inaccuracy.

Dunno who else there is analysing drafts and what their thoughts were but Cal and Rookieme seem fairly authoritative and they both had him in the top 5. It points to a player who had been highly rated for some time in the lead up to the draft, and not just a bolter the draft watchers realised some club was really interested in and added to their rankings. In fact after the 2021 draft Cal included him in the top 10 prospects for 2022, even being mentioned as a contender for pick 1.

Eye on the future: 10 draft prospects to watch in 2022

Draft guru Callum Twomey looks ahead to the best prospects in 2022

www.afl.com.au

Given the lack of attention drawn to it in his draft year I wonder if it's something he has developed since being drafted. For example he might be struggling to adjust to the speed of the game or feeling under more pressure than he's used to and it's affecting his kicking.

I wonder if the meniscus tear and subsequent surgery has had a negative impact on his already questionable kicking ability.

 

[ghostdog]

We certainly haven't seemed to prioritise elite users looking at most of these picks (happy with Caddy). Even Lual who is a second rounder needs work on his kicking but at least he is genuinely quick. Zach excepted its rare to see our mids put nicely weighted passes in front of leading forwards. The good teams the ball seems to be generally delivered to the forwards advantage when bursting from the centre.

This is my bugbear. Teams like Sydney have recruiters who prioritise elite ball use and hardness at the contest. I'm not even sure what ours do, except the whole 'get the spine right first' business, and we didn't get that right either.

 

[Vindicater]

This is my bugbear. Teams like Sydney have recruiters who prioritise elite ball use and hardness at the contest. I'm not even sure what ours do, except the whole 'get the spine right first' business, and we didn't get that right either.

Fairly certain RFK just looks at Cals mock draft and takes the highest kid left.

 

[ghostdog]

Fairly certain RFK just looks at Cals mock draft and takes the highest kid left.

What does RFK prioritise?
Clearly it isn't elite ball use, so what's at the top of his criteria? What's our MO?

 

[Corleone]

Yeah it would appear we've botched another top10 pick.

Hard to know where the fault lies really, but we more high end talent on the list. If we can't pick them from the draft and don't have the capital to trade them in ... Where to from here?

 

[fairbump_playon]

We're not allowed to talk about it

Bloody left wing elites

 

[EnolaGay]

The issue for me is we have enough midfielders that kick at 60% . We need more than Merrett in the midfield that has the ability that go better than 70%.
It is always the same with us . We seem to have plenty of the same. Small midfielders. Midfielders who are average kicks . Slow small forwards.
Rucks who can not mark.
How do you get better when your future midfield hope can maybe improve his kicking to a level that is average to above average.
Most have called Shiel a butcher for going at 50% to 60% yet it is okay for Tsatas to maybe get to 60% ?
On top o that. Yes he is still young but they have been working on his kicking for over 12 months now and it is no better.
Even at training. I went one day last week and he was still producing the same 4 or 5 howlers he was last year.
Maybe it is just me but I would rather my gun midfielder not be having 5 or so poor turnovers a game.
Poor skill level is killing us at the moment.

I, and a few others, were keen to keep Massimo for the very reason he was an elite kick. As a club we seem to be happy to recruit and persist with players with poor disposal (try to fix) but aren’t willing so much to recruit and persist with players that have other weaknesses but elite disposal.


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