62 people have more wealth than half the worlds population

[M Malice]

I think sweatshop workers can make their own decisions on what's best for them. doesn't make it "right" of course, but clearly these workers find it preferable to be exploited by nike or apple rather than scratching around in the dirt for food.

that's my point, the whole system is corrupted. we in the western world in the main do not understand it on a deep level, we know where those fancy shoes and clothes we wear and the technology we use come from but we just move on with our privileged lives and say that's too hard a problem to solve (me included). solutions??? we landed a man on the moon and can map the human genome. maybe one day.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

I'm sure Buffet, Gates and Zuckerberg pledging most of their fortune to charity is ignored here?

They'd be amongst the richest and guess what? They also made all that fortune themselves!

If someone wants to work harder, think smarter, and take more opportunities (and a lot more risk) than the vast majority of the population I say let them.

So, sure, people like you can piss and moan and complain about rich people. Gates is working to eradicate Polio (almost has in India), what the hell have you done lately?

Nice of you to cherrypick the handful who weren't born into filthy rich families and contribute to wider society.

Most of the super rich aren't either of those things. "work harder, think smarter" got jack shit to do with it.

Thanks for calling us all dumb by the way.

 

[Randomizor]

Nice of you to cherrypick the handful who weren't born into filthy rich families and contribute to wider society.

Most of the super rich aren't either of those things. "work harder, think smarter" got jack shit to do with it.

Thanks for calling us all dumb by the way.

Billionaires in 2015.

1,191 completely self made
230 got it all through inheritance
405 got some through inheritance

So most of the richest people are, in fact, self-made.

Where did I say anyone was dumb?

 

[rank and file]

Which 1/2 of the population?

 

[Bomberboyokay]

1,191 completely self made
230 got it all through inheritance
405 got some through inheritance

Source?

 

[Bomberboyokay]

What have the Koch brothers done for humanity? Hastened climate change because they don't give a ****?

 

[Randomizor]

Source?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryad...t-facts-and-figures/#2715e4857a0b1fa875476cec

Second last paragraph

Mentioned on wiki also:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's_Billionaires_2015

 

[TheHateful62]

Which 1/2 of the population?

The poorer 3,700,000,000 of the population.

That own equal to 'the 62'.

 

[rank and file]

The poorer 3,700,000,000 of the population.

That own equal to 'the 62'.

Thanks,didn't think it was the richer 1/2

 

[Footy Smarts]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryad...t-facts-and-figures/#2715e4857a0b1fa875476cec

Second last paragraph

Mentioned on wiki also:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's_Billionaires_2015

Yes but "self-made" in terms of billions is a pretty warped idea. You can inherit an incredible amount and still be termed self-made when you're talking billions. Take Jerry Jones who's listed as self-made in this article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erincar...-earned-their-money/#2715e4857a0b4261554622a1

Now there's no doubt he's made a heap of money. But he didn't exactly come from struggle street. It turns out that he went straight from college and worked at his dad's insurance company where, according to himself, his wage was $35,000. See here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/montebu...ness-the-hard-way/2/#2715e4857a0b3989cf106d1c

Now the median household income at that point was about $7,000. Not many people are lucky enough to have a graduate job provided by their dad that pays in the top couple of % of wages. So sure Jerry Jones is self-made in terms of Billions but he was on a really good wicket to begin with.

The issue isn't that people with millions can't make billions. It's that people that start off with nothing too often have almost no way of getting out of that situation. This is actively hampered by certain very wealthy people working to further increase their own wealth. The issue isn't so much the massive wealth that the top small number has but it's the immense power that comes with it along with the fact that getting to that level of wealth often requires incredible selfishness and greed. When the economy actively rewards immoral behaviour with extreme wealth (not every case but a lot of cases) and then gives those with immense wealth immense power it's hardly surprising that those at the other end of the scale get hurt.

 

[Randomizor]

Yes but "self-made" in terms of billions is a pretty warped idea. You can inherit an incredible amount and still be termed self-made when you're talking billions. Take Jerry Jones who's listed as self-made in this article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erincar...-earned-their-money/#2715e4857a0b4261554622a1

Now there's no doubt he's made a heap of money. But he didn't exactly come from struggle street. It turns out that he went straight from college and worked at his dad's insurance company where, according to himself, his wage was $35,000. See here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/montebu...ness-the-hard-way/2/#2715e4857a0b3989cf106d1c

Now the median household income at that point was about $7,000. Not many people are lucky enough to have a graduate job provided by their dad that pays in the top couple of % of wages. So sure Jerry Jones is self-made in terms of Billions but he was on a really good wicket to begin with.

The issue isn't that people with millions can't make billions. It's that people that start off with nothing too often have almost no way of getting out of that situation. This is actively hampered by certain very wealthy people working to further increase their own wealth. The issue isn't so much the massive wealth that the top small number has but it's the immense power that comes with it along with the fact that getting to that level of wealth often requires incredible selfishness and greed. When the economy actively rewards immoral behaviour with extreme wealth (not every case but a lot of cases) and then gives those with immense wealth immense power it's hardly surprising that those at the other end of the scale get hurt.

Except for all those examples of people who had very little and went on to make billions?

Ok but he still turned that $35,000 wage into a lot more. That part wasn't given to him. I'm not at all knocking it as an example by the way. It seems that people (especially with their Australian "tall poppy syndrome") focus on these sort of wealthy people instead of those who bootstrapped it for years or decades to get where they are. It frustrates me to no end.

Where are these examples of selfishness and greed? Hear this a lot, don't hear many examples.

The bankers from 2008 are of course a good example. They should have been jailed. They were actively and knowingly hurting a lot of people.

Can't think of too many others? And it's easy to come up with counter-examples (see Gates, Buffet etc).

It's the absolutism I can't stand. The wealthy are so often unfairly criticised simply for having wealth.

Some wealthy people have immense power and use that for good, other for not-so-good.

The premise of the thread seems to be "look at these 62 people who have immense wealth. I have no idea of their circumstance, their upbringing, their hardships, their charity, (or their corruption), their personal relationships, their thoughts about the worlds biggest problems, but they are all arseholes who should give their money away"

 

[TheHateful62]

Yep. I wonder how many of those super rich are tax dodgers. My guess is most

Report by UK charity Oxfam calls for a crackdown on tax havens as the world's wealthiest hide $7.6 trillion from taxes.
- http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/01/super-rich-62-people-world-160118033855025.html

 

[Footy Smarts]

Except for all those examples of people who had very little and went on to make billions?

Ok but he still turned that $35,000 wage into a lot more. That part wasn't given to him. I'm not at all knocking it as an example by the way. It seems that people (especially with their Australian "tall poppy syndrome") focus on these sort of wealthy people instead of those who bootstrapped it for years or decades to get where they are. It frustrates me to no end.

Well where are all these examples? There are some but you just putting out "completely self-made" figures to pretend to prove it is laughable when it includes people who were in the wealthiest tiny fraction of the population to begin with.

Where are these examples of selfishness and greed? Hear this a lot, don't hear many examples.

The bankers from 2008 are of course a good example. They should have been jailed. They were actively and knowingly hurting a lot of people.

Can't think of too many others? And it's easy to come up with counter-examples (see Gates, Buffet etc).

Really? You want examples of big-business greed? Why not take Gates, one of your "counter-examples"? I suppose you know that Microsoft have been found guilty of anti-competitive behaviour? That they've had to pay out billions of dollars for patent infringements and were used as a case study on tax minimization procedures by a US senate committee? But this sort of thing is pretty standard. Just look at the list of companies found to pay no or very little tax in Australia recently.

Or what about the countless examples of underpaying workers? Heard of 7-11 or Walmart? Or what about the fossil fuel industry, cigarette companies, asbestos companies, etc spending billions to protect their investments despite the proven dangers and lying about these dangers? Of course that's not getting into all the outsourcing to the 3rd world and use of horrific working conditions. Of course this is the way most of these ultra-rich fortunes are made.

 

[M Malice]

Well where are all these examples? There are some but you just putting out "completely self-made" figures to pretend to prove it is laughable when it includes people who were in the wealthiest tiny fraction of the population to begin with.



Really? You want examples of big-business greed? Why not take Gates, one of your "counter-examples"? I suppose you know that Microsoft have been found guilty of anti-competitive behaviour? That they've had to pay out billions of dollars for patent infringements and were used as a case study on tax minimization procedures by a US senate committee? But this sort of thing is pretty standard. Just look at the list of companies found to pay no or very little tax in Australia recently.

Or what about the countless examples of underpaying workers? Heard of 7-11 or Walmart? Or what about the fossil fuel industry, cigarette companies, asbestos companies, etc spending billions to protect their investments despite the proven dangers and lying about these dangers? Of course that's not getting into all the outsourcing to the 3rd world and use of horrific working conditions. Of course this is the way most of these ultra-rich fortunes are made.

like your points particularly the last paragraph, i have no problem with people having wealth but they need to distribute it more equitably with their workforce. the worst example of a corporate lack of empathy is the outsourcing of work to 3rd world countries.

 

[Taylor]

Of course the numbers are like that, it only takes 9 months to produce another poor person, it takes generations to create a billionaire.

There are more poor people having babies too, so that number will increase further.

 

[Long Live HFC]

the worst example of a corporate lack of empathy is the outsourcing of work to 3rd world countries.

but these jobs help alleviate poverty and provide opportunity in developing nations (though of course that's not why companies re-locate).

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

And people will still trot out this '1%' meme.

Sixty-two people is, what, 0.00000008% ? Or thereabouts, how many zeros in a billion? I can't remember, better check my bank account.

I refuse to believe that one person out of every hundred that I meet yields significantly more power over society than anyone else.

Not the ones the likes of you (presumably) or I meet.

 

[M Malice]

but these jobs help alleviate poverty and provide opportunity in developing nations (though of course that's not why companies re-locate).

they should be paying their workers a lot more.
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sou...=how+much+do+sweatshop+workers+get+paid+asian

 

[medusala]

Well where are all these examples? There are some but you just putting out "completely self-made" figures to pretend to prove it is laughable when it includes people who were in the wealthiest tiny fraction of the population to begin with.

IIRC of the top 10 less than half inherited the business / wealth and one or two had a reasonable start. See Forbes list

This has changed quite dramatically lately. In Obama's first 4 years I think 95% of all income gains went to the top 1% (and capital gains would be even more). Hedge fund types have absolutely slaughtered the pig.

Oh the humour of all the people that believed in hope and change under Obama. Well they got change alright.

 

[CM86]

IIRC of the top 10 less than half inherited the business / wealth and one or two had a reasonable start. See Forbes list

This has changed quite dramatically lately. In Obama's first 4 years I think 95% of all income gains went to the top 1% (and capital gains would be even more). Hedge fund types have absolutely slaughtered the pig.

Oh the humour of all the people that believed in hope and change under Obama. Well they got change alright.

What policy changes and what Obama actions, specifically, caused 95% of all income gains to go to the top 1%?

Serious question. Please avoid rhetoric.

 

[CatFan79]

Oh the humour of all the people that believed

..that a US president will to anything other than what they're told.

Why aren't the Rothschilds ever on the Forbes list?

 

[M Malice]

Billionaires in 2015.

1,191 completely self made
230 got it all through inheritance
405 got some through inheritance

So most of the richest people are, in fact, self-made.

Where did I say anyone was dumb?

comparatively speaking the so called "self made billionaires" would still have a hell of a head start on 99% of the worlds population, merely being born and raised in the western world is already a great start.
have seen this calculator before, but it's an interesting exercise, put in your income see where you sit.
http://www.globalrichlist.com/

 

[Demonic Ascent]

the current system has failed. The wars we are seeing... the loss of human rights.... the constant laws that get introduced in to take away peoples privacy rights etc etc... The terrorist laws ... etc etc... are all being put in for 1 reason. Those at the top dont want to lose their position of control and power. The own the governments they own armies..... and they already own us us.
I am 100% against the US gun laws....BUT... you have to wonder disarming the population in the most powerful country in the world leaving it powerless against these psychopaths is such a great idea.

You gotta think that once they get a robotic army up and running that will be the end game. They probably wouldn't try troops on the ground in the US because there will be people in the military/police who will switch sides. Once they take that factor out there's nothing standing in the way.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Why is it an issue that 62 people hold so much wealth? Yet to see an argument for this that makes any sense.

It's a completely untenable situation. It will lead to either mass social reform or bloody revolution.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I think sweatshop workers can make their own decisions on what's best for them. doesn't make it "right" of course, but clearly these workers find it preferable to be exploited by nike or apple rather than scratching around in the dirt for food.

Like medieval serfs being better off plowing the fields for their lords than starving in the slums?