A waste of a season?

[Sausages]

Very hard to see the positives out of this year.

Dalziel hasn't been too bad since his debut - but footy history is awash with players who have burst onto the stage for a short time and then faded away. If we are still singing his praises as he lines up for his 50th, we can take some comfort in his debut then.

Our smaller players, in general, have had pretty disappointing seasons, especially when their output needed to be stepped up to secure a top four berth which was on offer a few short weeks ago.

I'm not sure that Brown is as untouchable now as he was earlier in his career. I'm not confident he is the player around whom another period of rebuilding can take place. Much depends on Mathhews' assessment of our performance over the last 6-8 weeks. But, I'm going to go out on a limb and say he'll be traded. I just cannot see why we would offer him a 5 year contract. And to rehash an old BF argument, he is a fair way behind Carey. I'd rate him somewhere near Scotty Lucas - good, but not great. But he does not have the impact on games he looked like he could a few years ago - although many in our team currently fall into that category.

Brennan for me has been a highlight this season. Yes, he has had his off days - but I think he has started to find some consistency. Corrie has come along ok as well. If our midfielders have been our achilles heel and our forwards the failed hope, our defense has been our highlight. Merrett and Patfull are good value - not sure about Roe though, but he has had a stop start season in his defence.

The Colm Begley experiment I think has run its course - as has the careers of Lappin and and possibly Notting.

Hooper, McGrath, Sherman, Johnstone, Charman all have question amrks over where they are at in their footy, for differing reasons naturally.

And lastly the coaching staff. If Matthews feels we need to rebuild, then he will need to decide if he has the stamina to go through another 3-5 rebuild. If not, then he is saying this team has a flag in it. And I find that hard to believe.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Plenty of positives this season.

For example, we've managed to meet a whole raft of Brisbane Lions supporters on BigFooty who hadn't emerged until the season took a bad turn.

 

[acuguy]

Plenty of positives this season.

For example, we've managed to meet a whole raft of Brisbane Lions supporters on BigFooty who hadn't emerged until the season took a bad turn.

What an inclusive community we have here!

 

[notting18]

Very hard to see the positives out of this year.

Dalziel hasn't been too bad since his debut - but footy history is awash with players who have burst onto the stage for a short time and then faded away. If we are still singing his praises as he lines up for his 50th, we can take some comfort in his debut then.

It is very easy not to see any positives if you bullshit reasons to take away the ones that have been there. Dalziell has definitely been a positive, a later draft pick who looks like a player.

I'm not sure that Brown is as untouchable now as he was earlier in his career. I'm not confident he is the player around whom another period of rebuilding can take place. Much depends on Mathhews' assessment of our performance over the last 6-8 weeks. But, I'm going to go out on a limb and say he'll be traded. I just cannot see why we would offer him a 5 year contract. And to rehash an old BF argument, he is a fair way behind Carey. I'd rate him somewhere near Scotty Lucas - good, but not great. But he does not have the impact on games he looked like he could a few years ago - although many in our team currently fall into that category.

Brown has had another year diminished by injury where although he hasn't missed many games I doubt there was many times he was 90% fit. You look at the blokes leadership, skill, the fact he has kicked 60+ goals as a power forward, etc and he is clearly one of the best players in the game.

Brennan for me has been a highlight this season. Yes, he has had his off days - but I think he has started to find some consistency. Corrie has come along ok as well. If our midfielders have been our achilles heel and our forwards the failed hope, our defense has been our highlight. Merrett and Patfull are good value - not sure about Roe though, but he has had a stop start season in his defence.

The Colm Begley experiment I think has run its course - as has the careers of Lappin and and possibly Notting.

You seem to right off people becaue they were injured. Roe, Lappin and Begley missed most of the season with a variety of injuries. Roe has been one of our most important players in some wins, Begley had a great start to the year before that quad and Lappin is a champion and will go purely because of the fact his body has given in.

Hooper, McGrath, Sherman, Johnstone, Charman all have question amrks over where they are at in their footy, for differing reasons naturally.

I have no idea why Johnstone is in that group, he has been a set best 18 player all year. He has had a couple of bad games but again the Melbourne game where he got abused for he had a hamstring injury that would cause him to miss a few weeks.

Hooper has a great defensive side but is still young. We have seen his ability to damage the scoreboard last year. Now as a young draftee in the next year or 2 he can hopefully put them together.

Sherman has also improved to be a contributor most weeks. Definitely best 22, a player is allowed to go out of form at times and not write off his career.

And lastly the coaching staff. If Matthews feels we need to rebuild, then he will need to decide if he has the stamina to go through another 3-5 rebuild. If not, then he is saying this team has a flag in it. And I find that hard to believe.

We don't need to rebuild we ARE ****ING REBUILDING! Look at the amount of debutants in the last few years, this year we have had similar amounts and have found a few great young players (Henderson, Leuenberger, Rischitelli, etc). We don't need to scrap the list/staff/etc we just need to realise we are still building up. We have underachieved this season for the reason that we HAVEN'T capitilised on the opportunities we have made for ourselves, but we still have created a lot of opportunities to win a lot of games.

 

[Grimreepah]

The Colm Begley experiment I think has run its course

Haha, two games back and he's a write off.

 

[acuguy]

Our game plan today doesn't suit the likes of Begley, Proud and Dalziell, these guys like to take the game on and that is our future!

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

At least we did better in the clearances today, it might sound like a sarcastic comment, but the Hawks are one of the better teams going around in terms of clearances, the fact we at least drew even with them is cause for cautios optimism for the next season at least.

 

[Sausages]

Whilst I don't want to argue with you Notting18, I will

Regarding Dalziell, you state "he looks like a player" which is exactly why I elect to not consider him a positive. As I stated, there are MANY players who "look the goods" after a few weeks, only to have opposition coaches figure them out and then are unable to rise above the constant attention, week in week out.

Brown being injured - he is injured alot. Sadly, I see injury-prone as a bit of an issue for a big power forward. If his body cannot take the punishment over 22 rounds, this is an issue. And at the moment, there are other clubs who want him...ergo, he has currency. This value will diminish for here on out.

Yes, I write off people who are/were injured. Sorry, but there is no form like current form. But beyond that, Begley (lacking genuine progress in 2 season of football imo), Lappin (old), Notting (past his best) and Roe (not sure where he fits) all have some hard work ahead of them.

Johnstone was recruited as a senior player who had great skills. Not sure he has delivered on that score.

The fact that some of the names I have bandied about you would have in your best 22 is exactly the point. Are they in the best 22 of a premiership capable team? I think not. You evidently do, so we can agree to disagree.

As fasr as rebuilding goes - I am postulating that we have been rebuilding for 2006-2008...thats a solid 3 years. Our coash is contracted for one more. Given that the accepted rebuild time frame in footy is about 5-7 years, I have 2 problems:

1. We haven't developed a key forward yet - and assume this team is a flag capable team in another 2 years - our CURRENT 2 marking forwards will both be 30 or over AT BEST.

2. Our coach has 1 year to go and will have been here 10 years.

I'm of the opinion that Matthews felt at the start of this season that this team was a flag team for 2009. Hence, why he didn't sign beyond that time. Also why we didn't develop another marking forward. He felt, with some justification, that 2009 would be the go.

2008 has shown we are quite possibly deficient in a number of areas. So much so, that the question MUST be - can we win a flag next year? If NO, then we will need to start developing another marking forward, a crumbind forward and a CHB. And I'm questioning whether our coach and BOTH our current forwards have the endurance to go through that process.

 

[Lehmo87]

We haven't developed a key forward yet - and assume this team is a flag capable team in another 2 years - our CURRENT 2 marking forwards will both be 30 or over AT BEST.

ummm does Mitchell Clark and Lachlan Henderson not count? They may not be developed yet but will be in a couple of years and I'd think that would be the reason for drafting talls before mids.

 

[Sausages]

ummm does Mitchell Clark and Lachlan Henderson not count? They may not be developed yet but will be in a couple of years and I'd think that would be the reason for drafting talls before mids.

You said it yourself - they aren't developed yet.

The accepted development time I believe most clubs work on is the 40-50 game mark. Certainly, the premiership window opens when a significant number of a team is in the 60-100 game bracket, with enough 100+ players to even out the list.

That being the assumption, Henderson and Clark have a bit to go yet.

As far as Begley goes - no, I'm not writing him off after 2 games back. I'm writing him off after 30+ games, which I think is a reasonable crack at senior footy.

At the start os the year, our circa 50 game players were:

Adcock (54)
Brennan (59)
Merrett (46)
Riska (44)
Selwood (47)
Sherman (55)


Of those, Selwood and Sherman are, imo, definite "iffies" for next year.

Of the next bracket down (10-35 games), again at the start of the year:

Clark (10)
Corrie (33)
Drummond (32)
Harding (25)
Hooper (19)
Leuenberger (9)
Mills (15)
Moody (32)
Patfull (36)
Roe (31)
Stiller (35)
Begley (21)


And here is where I feel the hand of Matthews is revealed. Of those, Clark, Mills, Leue, Moody have had limited chances this year. This suggests to me that he felt we were "ok" for marking targets at both ends. Whilst that may be case, if our midfielders/flankers who have got alot of game time this year are found to be wanting, we are in a tough position. It means, not only do we have to find some new ones, but we ALSO have to develop our marking forwards AS WELL, since B&B are both getting on. Braddles will be 30 at the end of the year, Brown 27.

I cannot help but come to the conclusion that Matthews felt next year was our year. As I keep saying, much depends on how he interprets our performance over the last 6 weeks. if he feels it was an aberration and merely part of the whole groups learning and maturing process, fine, no need to panic.

BUT, IF he thinks "some of these blokes aren't going to make the grade", then we have some more serious issues to consider.

 

[Cousin Jed]

And here is where I feel the hand of Matthews is revealed. Of those, Clark, Mills, Leue, Moody have had limited chances this year. This suggests to me that he felt we were "ok" for marking targets at both ends.

Moody? Why is he here? He's not a tall and has been injured for all bar the last couple of week.
Leuey played alot then got injured.
Clark has played pretty much every game when fit.
Mills is not up to it

 

[Hollow Knight]

What an inclusive community we have here!

Says the bloke who handed me "shittest post of the year award" last week.

Love you acu!

 

[Grimreepah]

As far as Begley goes - no, I'm not writing him off after 2 games back. I'm writing him off after 30+ games, which I think is a reasonable crack at senior footy.

OK. I hadn't heard anyone question Begley's development before, so I found your comment rather extreme.

As I keep saying, much depends on how he interprets our performance over the last 6 weeks. if he feels it was an aberration and merely part of the whole groups learning and maturing process, fine, no need to panic.

I think he would say it's not one or the other, but in between or a bit of both. Our 50 game players are maturing but some are probably not talented enough and the others are still trying to find consistency.

I think a lot will depend on the next generation. In 2000 we became a great side with Brown and Black becoming elite players at a very young age and that's probably what we need now - one or two youngsters to give us a new dimension.

 

[lionslady]

I find it quiet easy to swallow the fact that we have had a fairly average season at the start and pretty shit at the end.
But honestly, thats the way the cookie crumbles, you have good and bad. And yes i think we have gained MANYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY positives.
We cant all just think everythings going to fall into place, because it never will.
There is always next year & im really excited for it cannot wait!!!

 

[MacMum]

Plenty of positives this season.

For example, we've managed to meet a whole raft of Brisbane Lions supporters on BigFooty who hadn't emerged until the season took a bad turn.

Well then, lets welcome them to our board, seeing how they are Lions..and entitled to an opinion, whether for or against our own opinions..its here for everybody..

 

[Hollow Knight]

Bulldogs learned last year not to believe their own hype. If our players learn the same lesson, then this season is anything but a waste.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

There have been numerous examples of teams that have been earmarked as outsiders for the flag, who have disapointed one season, yet come back with a vengenace in following seasons.

Look at Geelong in 2006, Geelong in 2006 were the type of side that would push good teams, sometimes beat them, and then fade out and end up finishing 10th.

The fact people are writing off our list is a reflection on the knowledge and sensibility of the people making the remarks.

We need to tweak here and there, we don't need to sack coaches, cut half the list, we may need to trade a player or 2 though and we may need to make hard decisions. But the fact is this year at times we have troubled good teams, and in 2007 we did the same, beating West Coast.

Go back through the seasons and look at the teams that have pushed hard for the flag, have a look at the season before they won the flag, you will see similarities with our situation right now.

 

[Lehban]

Sides seem too find way too much space, against us. Yet when we have the ball we always seem crowded or is it just me that feels this way

 

[Lehban]

I saw about two minutes of the seconds last night did any one else go?

 

[Raav]

I don't think there are many season that can be classed as a waste. Every year serves a purpose. Geelong in 06 showed them what level of hunger they required to be succesful. They also got Joel Selwood(the best of the lot)

In our current state, a few kids are getting their first crack at AFL level, while some mid level guys(Riska Patful Brennan MacDonald etc) are stepping it up and gaining confidence in themselves.
The only real dissappointment that I have with this year is that our goal kicking has cost us dearly.
We still are a young side underneath the top stars and as much as I get frustrated you have to accept that mistakes and form slumps will happen.

 

[Lehmo87]

You said it yourself - they aren't developed yet.

The point I was trying to make there was that when Brown and Bradshaw decide to move on, Clark and Henderson would have played plenty of games to get the experience to fill in their rolls.

 

[Grimreepah]

There have been numerous examples of teams that have been earmarked as outsiders for the flag, who have disapointed one season, yet come back with a vengenace in following seasons.

Look at Geelong in 2006, Geelong in 2006 were the type of side that would push good teams, sometimes beat them, and then fade out and end up finishing 10th.

The fact people are writing off our list is a reflection on the knowledge and sensibility of the people making the remarks.

We need to tweak here and there, we don't need to sack coaches, cut half the list, we may need to trade a player or 2 though and we may need to make hard decisions. But the fact is this year at times we have troubled good teams, and in 2007 we did the same, beating West Coast.

Go back through the seasons and look at the teams that have pushed hard for the flag, have a look at the season before they won the flag, you will see similarities with our situation right now.

This is exactly how I feel LTD. Climbing back to the top was never going to be a smooth ride. When you go through a bad patch the supporters tend to over react but it's important the club keeps it's head. We aren't at a premiership standard yet so there will need to be some changes, but we still need to have patience with younger players and we still need to maintain stability for players to develop.

 

[BLPC08]

If you think today was bad, your probably best not to watch the next 3 matches, because if history is anything to go by we fall away to an absolute rabble once we are out of contention and the chips are down.

2005, Round 22, Vs St.Kilda was probably the most disgraceful performance I have seen from any team on a football field. We lost by 139 points, it could have been 200 points if St.Kilda were playing at their best (from memory Raph Clarke was killing us!)

2006, Round 19, Vs Richmond, being down by 80 points at half time to a team that weren't in the finals race was almost as bad - we lost our next three by 50+ points to top 8 teams, but that match against Richmond......... oh dear!

I can only hope it doesn't happen, but geez it wouldn't surprise me if the Dogs, Blues or Swans gave us an absolute butchering similarly to those I have mentioned. We haven't lost to the Blues since 2001, so probably just losing to them is as bad as a 100 point loss!

 

[notting18]

The point I was trying to make there was that when Brown and Bradshaw decide to move on, Clark and Henderson would have played plenty of games to get the experience to fill in their rolls.

Exactly! Clark and Henderson shouldn't be fully developed right now as we currently hade 2 of the best 5 tall forwards in the game at the moment. Long term planning would mean that Clark/Henderson should be dominating the game in 2 years when Bradshaw would be nearing that retirement age for a KPP.

 

[Dylan12]

I find it quiet easy to swallow the fact that we have had a fairly average season at the start and pretty shit at the end.
But honestly, thats the way the cookie crumbles, you have good and bad. And yes i think we have gained MANYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY positives.
We cant all just think everythings going to fall into place, because it never will.
There is always next year & im really excited for it cannot wait!!!

Always bloody next year...that is what was being said last year and probably again next year.

Agree with your sentiments Sausage because all is not well at our club with way too many players happy to rob the club blind by taking huge pay packets and consistently not delivering, but maybe they won't next year