Mega Thread Adam Goodes starring in Lord of the Flies - The only place to post Goodes stuff - Read the OP

[Argy]

No, what matters is how people treat people. a group of people treat another group of people abysmally. It is wrong whether it is race based or not. By saying it does matter to Cyril Rioli, says Cyril Rioli is a different race to some other person, and he is not. If you want I can spend a long time typing and prove it. But simply put, he is not. The treatment is based purely on a baseless hatred/contempt or at the very least a misplaced sense of superiority for or over our fellow man. Coming from both "races" I see no weight in claiming anything is race based, it is simply bigotry for another human. Noo mattter which side of the fence one sits.

Best bloody post I've seen on this whole issue.

Well done grumbleguts.

(For those who don't know, grumbleguts has an aboriginal heritage.)

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Your opinion. I just don't like Adam, nothing to do with race... But you continue to tell yourself that your the only person with the correct opinion here.

Do you think he did the right thing in pointing out the girl in the crowd?

 

[Bikefreak]

We now have Jesinta Campbell lecturing us all on the issue on the Today show, seriously what the **** is going on in the world?

The f**ken media just cant help themselves can they. Fawning allover eachother...vomit vomit spew.

This shit is really unhelpful in the big scheme of things and that show is a steaming pile.....

 

[Bikefreak]

Do you think he did the right thing in pointing out the girl in the crowd?

Should have been handled behind closed doors.

 

[Taskmaster]

Should have been handled behind closed doors.

Agree.

 

[Scream]

It blows my mind people see the pointing out of the girl as an issue, or the reason they boo.

Society needs more pointing out imo.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Up until the boats arrived, Australia as we know it, was inhabited by a race of people for tens of thousands of years....

I agree racism with a good excuse is acceptable and should be encouraged.

Had we (the bad whitey) not landed someone else would have. Natives of West Papua are currently being slaughtered daily. I reckon our natives did pretty well.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I agree racism with a good excuse is acceptable and should be encouraged.

Had we (the bad whitey) not landed someone else would have. Natives of West Papua are currently being slaughtered daily. I reckon our natives did pretty well.

Reminds me of a stoner mate of mine I was once in a band with who would openly state to strangers that any Polynesian or oceanic island that was colonized(and by colonized, I mean murdered into submission) by the English deserved to be if they couldn't defend themselves as they were clearly weaker.

So I told him that I was going to walk into his bedroom one night and put a shotgun to his head, with the theory that if he couldn't defend himself then he deserved to be wiped out for being the weaker party.

 

[Thaihawk]

I just wish we could put the whole issue to bed, and focus on the job before us, and that is getting top 2, and, from there, winning the flag.

My conclusion from the other situation is:

A.G is bigger than racism, and The A.F.L, and his book, yet to come, will have that stupid grin he wears on that stupid dial, laughing all the way to the bank.

Looking for a ghost writer, Adam? - The above probably won't do my chances much good.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

So random violence with a good back story is also a good excuse.

Peds always claim they were touched up as a kid for justifying the cycle, that would be fair enough in your world.

 

[MC_9]

And what of this invader shit.

Does he want all of Australia for himself and his people?

A very divisive statement and inflammatory to say the least.

I shudder when I see someone in a position of privilege and responsibility and they start grinding their axe.

Never going to end well.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

When exactly did he say Invasion day?

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I'll be genuinely disappointed if Goodes retires; while this situation has blown out of proportion, for Goodes to accept no responsibility for his actions and walk away, with the implication that all of the booing is racism driven and has caused him to leave the game would, in my opinion, be a monumentally arrogant attempt to use the game of AFL as a political tool.

I'd say that is very much on Goodes's mind. Loves being the victim.

I for one won't be buying his book.

Adam Goodes: A Race to the Top

 

[drink]

Please read if you still think it's ok to boo Adam Goodes, or if you somehow think that an aboriginal person can love being a victim:

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ndigenous-person-has-felt-it?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

[Jtree]

Here is a lesson in Psychology for you all - The brain has two modes of thinking - Automatic (type 1) and Deliberate (type 2). Type 1 thought is where we take things at face value and make an immediate judgment based on what we see. There is no rational process involved it is simply a response built up by conditioning throughout our lives. If we look up in the sky and see dark clouds we make a judgment that it is likely to rain. If get asked what the profession is of a middle aged women who is conservatively dressed, who is carrying a book and wears glasses we are probably going to guess Librarian. Type 2 thought is where we rationally process information and come to a logical conclusion. We might look at statistics for rainfall and note that August is the driest month of the year and while dark clouds usually indicate rain, in August it is still unlikely to rain. We might identify that there are no libraries in the town where we saw this women but we know from reading ABS data that middle aged women in this town are most likely to be an accountant.

Not surprisingly type 2 thinking is a lot harder and more energetically expensive than type 1. Our brain is lazy and unless we are in a situation that demands us to engage in type 2 thought we stick to type 1 thought in most instances. This tells us that the vast majority of people who booed Goodes did not sit down and analyse Goodes' behaviour across his career and in the media and determine a scale by which that behaviour should be measured in an absolute sense and then against that scale they found Goodes to be categorically worthy of being booed. For most the emotional response (dictated by type 1 thinking) comes first and the rational arguments come second. Without training almost no one is self aware enough to be conscious of this process and even with years of training and experience we can all be prone to illogical conclusions based on type 1 thinking. No one believes themselves to be racists (except for neo-nazis I guess) so the reasons for booing are inevitably formulated along non-racist lines. That doesn't mean that booing isn't racially motivated it just means that people excel at rationalizing actions to align with their values and sense of identity. Just like Al Capone argued he was a public benefactor, we all argue we are not racists even if we are not consciously aware of the truth.

You may be self aware enough to know that any emotional response to Goodes was not racially motivated in any way however can you say the same for everyone else? You only need to look at the formulation of arguments in this thread and see how they have shifted away (for the most part) from arguments connected to his AOY award and his racism comments to safer ground such as isolated on field incidents throughout his career or his 'character'. Bottom line we don't know for sure if we are responding to his comments about race, his AOY, the time he pointed out a girl in the crowd for being racist, the time he slid into gibbo, the stupid comment he made on Sunday footy show or whatever other reason people are claiming in this thread. What we do know is that the response to Goodes is unjustifiable larger than it is for other player. There is no bigger on field flog than Stevie J. He also got caught driving at some ridiculous speed in a suburban area. He also had other off field issues early in his career. Never had anything like the booing Goodes is getting. So even if you aren't racists, why does anyone want to be lumped in with racists behaviour when it is likely that many people have responded negatively to Goodes' comments and actions against racism?

Is this referenced from the book "thinking fast and thinking slow"? If so, props to you ..... I love that book!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So random violence with a good back story is also a good excuse.

Peds always claim they were touched up as a kid for justifying the cycle, that would be fair enough in your world.

?
You've lost me. I'm not sure what point you're making.

 

[Big Hotdog]

I agree racism with a good excuse is acceptable and should be encouraged.

Had we (the bad whitey) not landed someone else would have. Natives of West Papua are currently being slaughtered daily. I reckon our natives did pretty well.

My relatives landed here in chains after the English had plundered and conquered their homes.

 

[Langford4FBOTC]

To all those people banging on about their right to boo and protesting that their reasons are based on a dislike for Goodes's actions and not his race, have a read of this perspective from an Aboriginal community leader up in the Kimberley. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...es-misunderstand/story-e6frg6zo-1227462328345
Aside from the effect it's having on Goodes the person, which in my opinion should be enough reason in itself to simply stop, consider the impact of your actions on the broader indigenous community. Show some maturity and recognise that we live in a civil society and that actions can have unintended consequences.

 

[Great 2008]

Can someone send me a list of who can be booed and who can not, I am confused? When we boo Adam am I to understand from some posters that this represents my feeling to all indigenous Australians? Give me a break.

 

[Glacier]

I've read through so much, and I simply can't quote everyone's post I disagree with...

You can reference people like Lebron all you like, but the situations are markedly different. For starters- Lebron was booed by Cleveland Fans because he left them to play with Miami. Hardly booed every night, unless they play miami every night. And if you know anything about the US, you would know that Cleveland is a massively struggling city, with a lot of working class people, a lot of poverty, a big african american population, and when a symbol of hope leaves--- their reasons for booing are rooted in their hearts being broken. The same people, who when Lebron went back, decided to welcome him with open arms- because, well, forgiveness is an amazing human quality.

So is empathy. For some reason there are a lot of people who only seem to be able to see this from their own immediate world view. I would urge everyone to look at the concepts of power and privilege and just try and have some empathy for those people who are left behind. The media did the worst job imaginable after the swans carlton game, and created the entirely wrong conversation. For starters- it was a Sydney home game- yet apparently Carlton Fans were booing and aggrieved at Goodes war cry... really? I watched that game, and a very sh%t carlton side had heck all supporters at the SCG, but there were 30,000 swans fans there. Who could hear or discern booing over the dance???? I couldn't, and I still can't when I watch replays of the event. But none the less the media said Goodes had created a controversy, clearly placing him against fans around the competition. They created a narrative of him versus you, in essence. This is a common practise of media organisations, run by elite people like Murdoch, in helping to subjugate a minority and stop them from having a voice. Instead of us all embracing learning about culture, Indigenous culture is our culture, we are squabbling over our right to boo and trying to paint Goodes as a dickhead. That is utterly illogical. The more Adam gets booed, the more people play into the hands of the powers that be, and the less we progress forward as a society- and at the end of the day, the people not having a voice suits the establishment. Because then you will just go and vote liberal or labor and think you've done the right thing, when in fact you're just making your own life immeasurably harder.

Stop getting offended. Think about what other indigenous players are saying. This booing of Goodes is having a far reaching affect, and indigenous people around the league, in other codes, and in other fields, are telling you that it is more than booing, that it is a slight on them and their culture. If you choose to boo him knowing that, then yes, it does make you a bigot. Because despite the information you have been presented with, despite someone pleading with you that what you are doing robs them of their identity and their voice, despite you being told that booing is helping to keep indigenous people subjugated in a position of lesser power- you have completely ignored that and booed anyway- because you put some mythical right of yours to boo whoever you want, above the facts you are being presented with. Yes- if you choose to boo now knowing what you know- it makes you a bigot. It's your choice as to whether you become that or not.

Take into account what our own HFC boys are saying publicly, and not so privately. Listen. Learn. You know what- if we were invaded by an alien race and all made to live in detention centres, and then made to work for the aliens and live in their culture- you would not be happy. Then imagine if someone told you just to get over it, even though in doing so it meant that you had to accept being a lesser person in their eyes. It is possible to try to begin the process of understanding the pain of people who have been oppressed for so long, but you have to realise your own role within that system, which is to be complicit and say the way things are is ok. It is not ok. Children getting r*ped in detention is not ok. Abbott passing laws making it illegal to report that is not ok. Indigenous youths committing suicide is not ok. Taking Children from their parents when they have done nothing wrong is not ok. YOU FUKING WANT TO TALK TO ME ABOUT PROPAGANDA???? The lie of the system is that we blindly accept the conditions with which we live as long as we are ok. You have been so socially conditioned that you would rather boo Adam Goodes, than ask why we don't teach Indigenous history at every school in the country? Or why we take money out of education or health care? It is laughable that instead of choosing to help, you'd argue til your dying breath that it's ok to boo this guy now, despite everything presented to you- even the players who play for your club.

As to the war dance. How, in any way, is that making something about race? One race versus another... Why aren't you interested in learning about culture? That Dance was taught to him by the Flying Boomerangs, an u16 indigenous representative team who play in the div 3 national champs each year. Why don't you care about the fact that these kids taught goodes that dance, and he was paying tribute to them during INDIGENOUS ROUND. Further more, why don't you bother to investigate what these kids do before their games? Did you know that they perform their own war cry prior to games? Not unlike the Haka in terms of what it represents. Amazingly- everyone seems to love the Haka- is that because it is in New Zealand most of the time? Why are you so much more accepting of Maori culture, than Indigenous Australian culture? You're offended by someone expressing themself, and paying tribute to their indigenous brothers who happen to be 16yr old kids... it is just ludicrous. Not to mention a slap in the face to indigenous kids growing up around the country who would have LOVED seeing Adam recognise them in such a fashion. WHY DOESN'T THAT MATTER TO YOU? why do you won't to boo and piss on the dreams of a people who are just trying to be heard and find a voice? It's like turning around to a kid at a fun park and telling them their not allowed to smile again- it makes you a complete a-hole, doesn't it?

That isn't political. That is Adam's version of giving a high 5 to a kid in the crowd. You just can't see it that way because of your bias. I urge you to try and understand. I also urge everyone to try and understand it is not for you to tell Indigenous people what is and isn't racist. Just try and listen to someone, what they go through, start from that place.

Institutional and systemic racism must be dismantled and broken. Try and help.

Post of the year

 

[Gralin]

Can someone send me a list of who can be booed and who can not, I am confused? When we boo Adam am I to understand from some posters that this represents my feeling to all indigenous Australians? Give me a break.

Easy don't boo anyone just cheer Hawks players

 

[arupist]

I wonder where we would be if Mark Robinson had chosen not to play the racism card.

 

[MW Zoo]

Boos are not racist. I don't mind overtly racist statements and comments being called out. But booing is a part of the game and of the sports going experience. No-one should stop booing because a range of people making six figure salaries (on the backs of people who actually pay to go to the football) trying to uphold a politically correct narrative ask them not to. The AFL is a sports organisation, not a Big Brother with the right to dictate how people should act, feel and behave.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Please read if you still think it's ok to boo Adam Goodes, or if you somehow think that an aboriginal person can love being a victim:

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ndigenous-person-has-felt-it?CMP=share_btn_fb

Yep still looking backwards, Stan and Adam have survivor guilt as they have risen above the average indigenous person. Still the opinion piece doesn't address how Adam, the AFL and the AFL media have all in their own way have alienated a large part of footy followers by their dictatorial directives and assumptions. The actions of my forefathers aren't mine so Stan and Adam can stop blaming me and others for their feelings of survivor / success guilt.
For what it's worth I'm happy to stop booing, if only to not give shelter to those that are truly being racist, if he was ever to sook it up again the booing will come again be sure of it.

 

[SodaPop]

Do you think he did the right thing in pointing out the girl in the crowd?

In hindsight no, but you need to take into consideration that it was a spur of the moment thing. He was in the middle of a high pressure game and heard a comment out of left field. Can't blame him for his actions.
Michael Long was on SEN about 5-6 weeks ago saying what a top bloke AG is and what he does for our community. He went on to say that if AG had his time again in that situation, he would not respond in that way.

 

[Flukey!]

Should have been handled behind closed doors.

Yep. It was wrong to humiliate and shame a little kid like that.

Surely Goodes has to accept some responsibility for the current situation?
I can't recall him being booed 2 years ago of further back again.
It seems to be a relatively recent issue.