News Adelaide Crows Camp Allegations and Rumors

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Correct, he did injure himself early in the 1st quarter.

Stand to be corrected, but wasn't Blighty's quote along the lines of 'a pathetic effort by Pitman in the ruck'.........he never actually called Pitman pathetic??

There were two interviews - one on radio and one on tv

On one of them he sounded more harsh than he intended and he later apologised. Left out the word effort I think from memory

 

[dani_giuls]

Interesting. I go with two mates for a weekly walk, one of the mates lost his wife in a car accident nearly 6 years ago and has been seeing a psychologist every month since then trying to deal with it.

Recently he told her he gets more put of his 1.5 hour walk with us than he does seeing her. He now will only see her every 3 months, if necessary.

The issue I have is do they sometimes not ask the right questions given those closer to an individual know more about that individual than the actual professional?

I have some experience here, I am studying a grad dip in psychology (halfway through but it wont be another 3 years of full time study before I am clinically trained to have a professional opinion) and I also see a psychologist for my own mental health issues.

Everyone is different, and psychs themselves will have their own specialities, the first one I saw (who specialised in PTSD but was able to take me in) did nothing for me, gave me no coping mechanisms, nothing. I moved interstate and found a new psych and she has helped me a lot.....but she found ways to make it click with me. I also have exercises I have to do and of course, I don't do them nearly as much as I should (same could be said of the physio!).

The field is so more complex than I think I ever imagined, the mind is just not that simple and it can take a lot of time to get to the root cause of issues, not many can afford the costs/time to get enough proper mental health support (but don't get me started on that). You can not know what triggers a person as everyone is different. But I will say you learn a lot about ethics, even in the beginning of your studies, and it is very much hounded into you what is ethically right and what your responsibilities are as a professional in the field. If you dont abide by these rules you can be sure your license to practise will be ripped up.

 

[Sanders]

My point is this:

The camp and it’s activities were kept secret from the club, which should have been a red flag in itself.

Sorry?

 

[Red mist]

The investigation might not get that far if the people involved are all now gone. I'm really disappointed to hear that the club's response (at the time) was for Betts to ignore it and not mention it during his presser for Indigenous round.

It hasn’t been investigated. It was a gripe unsubstantiated.

 

[Red mist]

Is Roo really the problem?
We had issues (see Tippett) before he was around.

John Reid to Justin Reid, Roo in the middle. Yeah there is still a problem.
I met Geoff Motley, first player manager in SA once. Just once while I did trades around his humble lodgings.
His memorabilia room is awesome.
I know he still loves the game through the business he created player manager even though he was a great player.
He never got stitched up like JR is all I’d say. We got stitched up.

 

[Red mist]

Sorry?

Accepted.

 

[Soggy2112]

Sorry?

It’s well known now that most players, coaches and staff were not told details about where the camp was and what would take place, correct?

 

[Sanders]

It’s well known now that most players, coaches and staff were not told details about where the camp was and what would take place, correct?

Not correct. The club was not kept in the dark, the programme was signed off by Burton at co.

 

[Soggy2112]

Not correct. The club was not kept in the dark, the programme was signed off by Burton at co.

But it was a deliberate decision that Burton didn’t inform players, coaches, doctors etc what would happen?

 

[John Who]

Fair, as you say there are some very crooked people out there with those qualifications. And yes, anyone, including a coach could discuss past trauma and offer support and have a very positive impact.

I guess the difference here is these were not people with exisiting relationships and roles within the club who were simply offering support. These were people brought into the club with the specific purpose of building mental strength, who sought out information about personal trauma to use as a part of their program. That’s where I feel you need to be qualified and using evidence based methods to even consider doing something like that.

I take your point that talking about past mental hurdles/scars can be a highly delicate matter and it should be done with care and some mental health understanding. I guess the main point I was previously making, is that the qualifications and credentials don’t guarantee you to make someone happier or mentally stronger than someone without said qualifications. It’s really more about the intent to improve that person and how the information was used.

Also I feel that there is an oversimplifying of what mental health and mental training is, and that they’re an exact science. They’re both an evolving “rough estimate” science, in which there is no black and white.

In other words, there is no evidence based science on a guaranteed positive result in these fields.

 

[Soggy2112]

I take your point that talking about past mental hurdles/scars can be a highly delicate matter and it should be done with care and some mental health understanding. I guess the main point I was previously making, is that the qualifications and credentials don’t guarantee you to make someone happier or mentally stronger than someone without said qualifications. It’s really more about the intent to improve that person and how the information was used.

Also I feel that there is an oversimplifying of what mental health and mental training is, and that they’re an exact science. They’re both an evolving “rough estimate” science, in which there is no black and white.

In other words, there is no evidence based science on a guaranteed positive result in these fields.

I agree, my point was not so much that having someone qualified will guarantee a “good result”. My point was more that in order to become qualified, much of your education is centred around what is safe, legal and ethical practice. It may not guarantee you results, however it will reduce the risk significantly of causing further harm.

As I said, the power pose type stuff is fine, if it worked, awesome, if it failed it was ultimately harmless. However once they started digging around in players trauma it’s then that I feel the club should have stopped and expected those people to have greater qualifications as well as actual scientific evidence behind their approach.

 

[adelaidecrows]

But it was a deliberate decision that Burton didn’t inform players, coaches, doctors etc what would happen?

Yes but thats not controversial. The whole point of this camp was to be a surprise and to put everyone in an uncomfortable position. If he ran around giving them a camp run down it defeats the purpose. I am interested as to see how this is an issue?

 

[feenix67]

Yes but thats not controversial. The whole point of this camp was to be a surprise and to put everyone in an uncomfortable position. If he ran around giving them a camp run down it defeats the purpose. I am interested as to see how this is an issue?

Not true. Non disclosure and subsequent pacts of silence are intrinsic to the MKP methods.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Not true. Non disclosure and subsequent pacts of silence are intrinsic to the MKP methods.

But thats after. critiquing the camp based on what was told before hand to participants is kind of a waste of time as the whole purpose of the camp was for participants to know as little as possible. Thats not controversal at all. The controversy is the betrayal with the use of sensitive information and some racial issues and the clubs want to silence them after with NDAs. The before camp who knew what really is not really even worth discussing.

 

[feenix67]

But thats after. critiquing the camp based on what was told before hand to participants is kind of a waste of time as the whole purpose of the camp was for participants to know as little as possible. Thats not controversal at all. The controversy is the betrayal with the use of sensitive information and some racial issues and the clubs want to silence them after with NDAs. The before camp who knew what really is not really even worth discussing.

The "before camp" is exactly what needs discussing. I know for a fact the program wasnt disclosed and due diligence wasn't conducted. That's from the club itself and they've admitted as much publicly.

Anyway, I don't think it matters now. It's done, the people involved are gone, the playing list is largely renewed. This thread is just rehashing stuff now.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Sorry?

Imagine when the club finds out about the last 24 years. Not gonna be pretty.

 

[Sanders]

But it was a deliberate decision that Burton didn’t inform players, coaches, doctors etc what would happen?

You said club, I disagreed with that. The club was not kept in the dark

That’s all. And it does matter

 

[Soggy2112]

You said club, I disagreed with that. The club was not kept in the dark

That’s all. And it does matter

Fair, I do think though that the fact that Burton was keeping details about the camp a secret from say, the welfare officer, was a red flag.

 

[incorrectdisposal]

With the news out this week about Hawthorn doing distasteful stuff... sorta feels like Hawthorn might've dethroned the Crows Camp as the worst bit of footy player management this century... can we delete this Crows Camp thread and just argue about normal things like Rankine/Horne-Francis/Rowe/OBrien/Crouch?

 

[Mr_Moogle]

With the news out this week about Hawthorn doing distasteful stuff... sorta feels like Hawthorn might've dethroned the Crows Camp as the worst bit of footy player management this century... can we delete this Crows Camp thread and just argue about normal things like Rankine/Horne-Francis/Rowe/OBrien/Crouch?

No. Hawthorn being shit doesn't absolve the AFC.

 

[Thunderstruck]

Lets hope Sam Manure doesn't bring up the fact that Tim Silvers was at hawks from 2004....he'll be chomping at the bit!

 

[beartoo]

Rate in order of nastiness: Crows Camp, Essendon Injections, Collingwood Systemic Racism, Hawthorn's Antics.

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[incorrectdisposal]

Lets hope Sam Manure doesn't bring up the fact that Tim Silvers was at hawks from 2004....he'll be chomping at the bit!

Surely not. His Hawthorn progression was
2004-2005 Payroll Manager
2005-2009 Account Manager
2009-2011 Financial Controller
2011-2017 General Manager Finance
2017-2021 Chief Operating Officer

I don't think he was active in direct discussions with players 2004-2017 as a finance guy... given the nature of the allegations being raised, Tim would've been miles from the action.

 

[incorrectdisposal]

Rate in order of nastiness: Crows Camp, Essendon Injections, Collingwood Systemic Racism, Hawthorn's Antics.

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Excellent question.
For me... In Order of Nastiness =
1. Essendon Injections,
2. Hawthorn Antics,
3. Crows Camp,
4. West Coast Eagles drugs scandal(s),
5. Wayne Carey Affair,
6. Carlton Salary Cap Breaches,
7. St Kilda Schoolgirl / Ricki Nixon
8. Collingwood Racism Row,
9. Crows/Tippett Saga

 

[rabidcrow]

Excellent question.
For me... In Order of Nastiness =
1. Essendon Injections,
2. Hawthorn Antics,
3. Crows Camp,
4. West Coast Eagles drugs scandal(s),
5. Wayne Carey Affair,
6. Carlton Salary Cap Breaches,
7. St Kilda Schoolgirl / Ricki Nixon
8. Collingwood Racism Row,
9. Crows/Tippett Saga

I would rate the WCE scandal higher. How many players have died, nearly died or ended up in jail from that era. My memory is not that great but Mainwaring , Fletcher, Cousins, Kerr, Braun, Chick I think all make this list?


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