Preview AFL Round 16 Hawthorn V Brisbane Lions

[dlanod]

As far as loading up on younger players goes, I don't think that it has been unsuccessful for other clubs. Most of the top clubs as the moment made this move at some time over the last decade. The clubs that have been on the rise recently have also implemented a similar policy.

I guess the crucial factor is choosing the right players in the draft, though. On top of that, there's also the requirement of good coaching (seemingly from a team of coaches), in order to get the best out of the talented players that you do select.

There was an interesting point on Offsiders this morning in relation to Essendon, but also can apply to us. Over the last few years there seems to be the formation of a middle ground of teams that don't fall low enough to get sustained high draft picks over two to three years so they don't get the inherent talent to get in the top four and challenge for a premiership. It's going to be interesting to see whether this cycle is broken at any point or whether those who are middle teams, e.g. Essendon, Port, Sydney, us, are going to be stuck there for a sustained period.

 

[acuguy]

Dlanod,

we have traded 2 first round picks and one of our first round selections in the last 3 years. Hindsight is great thing and draft picks can be a lottery but why rob yourself of the ability to have 3 extra first round picks on your list. Surely our recruiters must be tearing their collective hair out!

 

[dlanod]

Dlanod,

we have traded 2 first round picks and one of our first round selections in the last 3 years. Hindsight is great thing and draft picks can be a lottery but why rob yourself of the ability to have 3 extra first round picks on your list. Surely our recruiters must be tearing their collective hair out!

I think even Matthews acknowledged trading pick 14 for Johnstone as a mistake (albeit indirectly - stating he's keeping a keen eye on Grimes because Matthews felt he kickstarted Grimes' career).

Regarding the Henderson-Fev trade, well I'm still in favour of that one to date but time may prove it one way or the other.

 

[kopal]

Have been of supporter the club through the bad times with the Bears, I don't think I have ever been so disenchanted with the team. Perhaps we had high hopes of a top 4 finish after round four and now looking at a wooden spoon. Just watched the Swans and do not believe they have a better list than us. How come they are a ten goal better team? Maybe they have a better Coach and support staff.

I reckon there is no team will less skill than us. There has got to be something wrong with the training techniques. Does the team copy Simon Black and Travis Johnstone on the training track? Both of them haphazardly throw the ball on the boot and hope for a miracle result. When it comes off brilliant. Percentage wise it is crap. Hate to criticize a champion of the club in Simon but his disposal is poor resulting in many turnovers.

For the life of me I cannot comprehend why our kick-outs are so deplorable. Almost every time there is hesitation in kicking resulting in the ball being kicked a few metres to the pocket. Other teams grab the ball and move it on fast. What is the hell are all the coaches doing to rectify this problem?

In defense of Fev it would be a nightmare to play at full foward in this team. Players can't hit targets properly. A full forward wouldn't know when to lead because the ball is crisscrossed around the ground before sent forward. Not rocket science to get the ball forward quickly before the flood.

There a number of players who have lost confidence, none more so that Justin Sherman. I thought with all the coaches and motivators employed surely there is someone to help them.

For a few years now we have been hit with an excessive number of injuries. Surely there has to be some reason for this. Hard grounds? There has to be questions asked of the medical and conditioning staff.

Personally I believe there is too much criticism here of the young players. They are not being nurtured properly. Sadly though despite his heroics Troy Selwood has close to a nil skill level. There are a sufficient number of mature players in the team who should support them on the field. When you have someone like Daniel Merrett in the leadership group having brain fades during a game doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

If the coach wasn't held in such high esteem as a player we would be calling for his sacking. Questions should be asked whether the players are getting too bogged down in game plans. Remember when Robert Walls announced he was leaving? The players threw caution to the wind and had an incredible number of wins.

Been to a few Gold Coast FC games. At the last game I saw all the team ran up and down the ground. At times every player on the ground was in a quarter of the ground. I refuse to watch our great game degenerating into such crap. Pity the game has got so technical that it is being spoilt as a spectacle.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Before I read through any of this thread...I tried to watch Sherman for the first half as much as you can when the game is on TV and he stuck with his player in most contests and had good defensive work but just had no attacking work.

Buchanon, Staker, Leuenberger and Maguire all put in a good effort. Shame about the other 18.

We're 13th atm and with West coast getting a win it wouldn't surprise me to get the spoon.

There isn't a direct quote in an article in the courier mail but if the team is capable of being a lot better then its the responsibility of the coach to get them motivated to play and not just the players fault.

 

[lionshine]

Have been of supporter the club through the bad times with the Bears, I don't think I have ever been so disenchanted with the team. Perhaps we had high hopes of a top 4 finish after round four and now looking at a wooden spoon. Just watched the Swans and do not believe they have a better list than us. How come they are a ten goal better team? Maybe they have a better Coach and support staff.

I reckon there is no team will less skill than us. There has got to be something wrong with the training techniques. Does the team copy Simon Black and Travis Johnstone on the training track? Both of them haphazardly throw the ball on the boot and hope for a miracle result. When it comes off brilliant. Percentage wise it is crap. Hate to criticize a champion of the club in Simon but his disposal is poor resulting in many turnovers.

For the life of me I cannot comprehend why our kick-outs are so deplorable. Almost every time there is hesitation in kicking resulting in the ball being kicked a few metres to the pocket. Other teams grab the ball and move it on fast. What is the hell are all the coaches doing to rectify this problem?

In defense of Fev it would be a nightmare to play at full foward in this team. Players can't hit targets properly. A full forward wouldn't know when to lead because the ball is crisscrossed around the ground before sent forward. Not rocket science to get the ball forward quickly before the flood.

There a number of players who have lost confidence, none more so that Justin Sherman. I thought with all the coaches and motivators employed surely there is someone to help them.

For a few years now we have been hit with an excessive number of injuries. Surely there has to be some reason for this. Hard grounds? There has to be questions asked of the medical and conditioning staff.

Personally I believe there is too much criticism here of the young players. They are not being nurtured properly. Sadly though despite his heroics Troy Selwood has close to a nil skill level. There are a sufficient number of mature players in the team who should support them on the field. When you have someone like Daniel Merrett in the leadership group having brain fades during a game doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

If the coach wasn't held in such high esteem as a player we would be calling for his sacking. Questions should be asked whether the players are getting too bogged down in game plans. Remember when Robert Walls announced he was leaving? The players threw caution to the wind and had an incredible number of wins.

Been to a few Gold Coast FC games. At the last game I saw all the team ran up and down the ground. At times every player on the ground was in a quarter of the ground. I refuse to watch our great game degenerating into such crap. Pity the game has got so technical that it is being spoilt as a spectacle.

This is a ridiculous comment. Black is one of the best kicks on the list and he always hits his target. Anyway he didn't even play on Saturday so I don't know why your lashing out at him

 

[POBT]

Lets have a reality check here. Our reserves are in about 8th on the AFLQ ladder and have been smacked on more than a few occasions. If we were dominating the competition then I would say fair enough but we are not.

Probably worth adding that there are sides affiliated with the stronger leagues who are struggling too. West Coast players go around in the WAFL, Port in the SANFL, Essendon in the VFL. Those sides aren't going much better than us. On the other hand, Sydney are going great guns and I think their reserves competition is probably weaker than ours.

I'm not saying our development path is fine - just think it is a long bow to draw between our senior performance and where our reserves play.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Under the condition that Proud and Harwood perform tommorow in the Reserves I would do this

IN Harwood Proud Cornelius
OUT Collier Sherman Hanley

Lets face it Collier and Hanley just arent up to AFL level and I can't see them being up to it in the future.

Now, we need a few fresh players who will go in hard and win the contested footy and Harwood and Proud bring that and we also need Cornelius to come in as we can rely on him to bob up and kick 2 or 3 goals each week. And I would not be to far off giving Beams ago and also McCauley for Clark. Also im not sure who would come in for him but I think we need to give young Banfield a rest soon he looked very sore and tired out there today.

Also I wouldn't be against brining in BIG BART MCCULLOCH or Retzlaff and dropping FEV! What have we got to lose by brining in a few youngsters and giving them a taste?

Also if Clarke performs well tommorow I would LOVE to bring him in but I think we should give him another 2 or 3 games including tommorow before we elevate him too the seniors.

Thoughts?

Cheers LS!

You have a love for bringing in the younger players lionshine and I don't see what it would really add to the team other than giving some supporters something to think about for the future. I think we have already used 35 players for the year and think that is more than enough. We've seen Rockliff, Banfield and Cornelius come in and perform well and I also think Collier has showed signs that he has improved and is worth giving a few more games and Hanley wasn't the worst player out there yesterday.

Clarke is probably going to come in to the team in 2-3 weeks time so to put McCulloch, McCauley, Retzclaff, Beams, Harwood, Proud and Cornelius in and out of the team over the next 6 weeks would be stupid and we would see even worse performances than today. Proud and Cornelius should get a few more games but I don't think we should see any more players debut this year.

 

[Quigley]

This is a ridiculous comment. Black is one of the best kicks on the list and he always hits his target. Anyway he didn't even play on Saturday so I don't know why your lashing out at him

Cmon. Blackey this year and even last year has been well below his best in terms of disposal. Credit to kopal for mentioning what many seem to be stepping around. Black hasn't been the worst kicking wise but he has certainly been below his high standard.

 

[whatboutbob]

This is a ridiculous comment. Black is one of the best kicks on the list and he always hits his target. Anyway he didn't even play on Saturday so I don't know why your lashing out at him

To be fair he's had some absolute shockers this year, even when under no / very little pressure.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Cmon. Blackey this year and even last year has been well below his best in terms of disposal. Credit to kopal for mentioning what many seem to be stepping around. Black hasn't been the worst kicking wise but he has certainly been below his high standard.

Indeed. Even when some others get criticised for their turnovers, the same blowtorch isn't being turned on less fashionable or decorated players.

 

[acuguy]

I am always very wary of being critical of Black. I firmly believe since 2005 he has been the most tagged player in the AFL. A player like Black doesn't lose skill, his errors i believe are due to decline in his decision making. As one poster has mentioned before, Black wins most his possies in a contested situation and often disposes of the ball with someone hanging off him or about to tackle him.

I can cop a fair analysis of why S.Black might be in decline as a player but i will not accept anyone putting T.Johnstone and S.Black in the same category when it comes to skill errors.

 

[whatboutbob]

Can't say that I've read all this thread, but just wanted to mention that one thing that really irks me is players smiling after a smashing, especially when they've done bugger-all. I noticed a few culprits yesterday, but the one that stood out was Sherman.

 

[acuguy]

Can't say that I've read all this thread, but just wanted to mention that one thing that really irks me is players smiling after a smashing, especially when they've done bugger-all. I noticed a few culprits yesterday, but the one that stood out was Sherman.

My pet hate!

 

[GabbaFella]

good points what about bob....

2 other points....a number of times hawks players bumped into our players on the boundary line.....you would have thought someone would retaliate....nope, not even a wimper

I want to see players seething about getting flogged.....wipe any smiles off your face, be dirty as hell about losing

I mean, you can lose, but to go down without a wimper???

Maybe they all need to do sparring before a match to fire them up

On another note, I think they should all be flogged on the training track this week....5am start on monday for me....maybe a swimming session down the coast....injured or not, ALL required to attend

saturday was beyond a joke, i don't mind if they lose, but they way they lost pissed me off no end...i want to see players comng off the ground stuffed, bugger shaking hands with the opposition and the umps......get angry about it FFS

 

[luthor]

Indeed. Even when some others get criticised for their turnovers, the same blowtorch isn't being turned on less fashionable or decorated players.

TFB, unless my thought processes are in meltdown, don't you mean "more" rather than "less".

Anyway, my own view is that we have one or two "decorated" players who are escaping scrutiny when to be fair, they should be copping their fair share of criticism.

I think the coach would do well to take heed.

 

[lionshine]

To be fair he's had some absolute shockers this year, even when under no / very little pressure.

Yes but too say that he just throws it on his boot and hopes and when it pays off he looks good is just utter bullshit if you ask me.

 

[lionshine]

You have a love for bringing in the younger players lionshine and I don't see what it would really add to the team other than giving some supporters something to think about for the future. I think we have already used 35 players for the year and think that is more than enough. We've seen Rockliff, Banfield and Cornelius come in and perform well and I also think Collier has showed signs that he has improved and is worth giving a few more games and Hanley wasn't the worst player out there yesterday.

Clarke is probably going to come in to the team in 2-3 weeks time so to put McCulloch, McCauley, Retzclaff, Beams, Harwood, Proud and Cornelius in and out of the team over the next 6 weeks would be stupid and we would see even worse performances than today. Proud and Cornelius should get a few more games but I don't think we should see any more players debut this year.

The part in bold is basically what I said. Also I don't want all of those players in I just want maybe 2 or 3 I was just throwing up names of players who could come in I didn't mean all of them. Also why not bring a few youngsters in? Give em a taste I say. Where not going too play finals and im sure the kids will at least have a fair crack unlike some of the senior players at the moment!

 

[Stocka]

Cmon. Blackey this year and even last year has been well below his best in terms of disposal. Credit to kopal for mentioning what many seem to be stepping around. Black hasn't been the worst kicking wise but he has certainly been below his high standard.

To be honest I don't think Black's kicking would ever have been regarded as being amongst the very best, anyway. It's was never poor when he was a great player (pretty hard to look like a poor kick given the way our team played in the first part of the decade anyway!), but it's always been the clearances, handballs and evasive skills that have set Black apart from his opponents.

 

[Stocka]

Anyway, my own view is that we have one or two "decorated" players who are escaping scrutiny when to be fair, they should be copping their fair share of criticism.

Who are you referring to, Luthor?

If it's Black and Power, then I'd have to say that I think people on here have already started to question the viability of having them stay on beyond this year, recently.

Or do you mean other players?

 

[Hollow Knight]

To be honest I don't think Black's kicking would ever have been regarded as being amongst the very best, anyway.

Oh there was a period where he was an elite kick of the footy. No question. Vision + execution.

Those days are coming to an end. Sorry Lionshine.

 

[Last of the Roys]

Just for a bit of cheering up, the Champion Data stats in the Herald-Sun today were actually a bit higher for Hawthorn than the ones they had on the AFL website last night.

• Possessions 434 to Hawthorn vs. 280 for the Lions
• Contested possessions 149 vs. 123
• Inside 50's 64 vs. 25
• Clearances 45 vs. 32
• Clangers 35 vs. 50
• Disposal efficiency 74% vs. 62%
• Tackles 86 vs. 79

 

[Stocka]

Oh there was a period where he was an elite kick of the footy. No question. Vision + execution.

Yeah I guess you're right, in that sense. He had, and I think still does, the ability to jag a nice pass across the body through a small gap to a player inside 50m. I guess you'd call that controlled finesse and it certainly fits with how Black played the rest of his game when at his very best (and then amazingly adding his toughness at the contest and willingness to gut run to the mix!).

Even with that in mind though, I'd still have him the very best, but I guess I show a bias more towards the Akermanis style kicking ability, being the ability to go long, powerfully and with great accuracy around the goals. Although my memories are fading somewhat, I'd rate Akermanis as the best kick we've seen to date at the Lions.

 

[Nuggo]

Black's left foot was pretty clean. Probably his goal kicking was the thing that raised questions about his kicking if anything. When your on your hands and knees doing all of the dirty work it is pretty hard to get the efficiency right up there.

 

[Gibbo_88]

I just watched the post match press conference and I feel really bad for Vossy. He said for the last 4-5 weeks they've been training really well and they aren't getting any reward for the effort.

He also said that they couldn't get any advantage in the air on the ground so they tried something new by putting Maguire in the ruck and Clark at ground level for those people who were asking why that move was made.

Congrats to Leuey for getting 30 hit outs.