Review AFL Round 19 autopsy - North Melbourne defeats Geelong by 10 points

[Partridge]

Also highlights how important Rivers will be when comes back because Mackie has never been a good one on one player (against the big key forwards), Rivers isn't the best either but he's certainly a much more powerful unit which frees us up.

Liked Guthrie's game
Took em all on in the end and he won most times.

Interesting call on Rivers. Didn't we just drop a tall defender prior to this game? I can't remember. Good to see the small defenders made up for it anyway.

 

[thejester]

Interesting call on Rivers. Didn't we just drop a tall defender prior to this game? I can't remember. Good to see the small defenders made up for it anyway.

I actually thought the defensive unit didn't do too badly. How many North goals came from turnovers that left their forwards with acres of space in which to lead either to or from the ball? Hard to defend in those sort of conditions.

 

[fuego]

Thanks cats supporters for your compliments shows good sportsmanship, We are thrilled with the win, but I wouldn't be to concerned about your team, the cats are a great team and will bounce back and beat Hawthorn in the grand final enjoy September.

 

[geelong_boy]

Lonergan led up, thought he wasn't going to get it and SLOW FOOTBALL BRAIN didn't run forward fast enough.
The kick was almost misplaced poorly, but a faster more astute player would have reached it despite two Norfers coming through like steam trains. DUMB.

I think you need to watch the replay again. Lonergan was basically standing still or maybe just moving in our goal direction. It wasn't his fault that Enright couldn't find him in open space and that the turnover resulted in a critical North goal.

 

[bulletproof]

Enright eh?.....well he was good when he was good.....but bloody awful a few times and directly gave away 2 goals......

No doubt will get votes tho....

It was a bad error from Enright but the reason why it was so shocking is because it was so rare. Johnson on the other hand turned it over at least 8 times. I found people giving him votes very curious......

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

North dominated the clearances and killed us with leg speed, especially on the break. Our disposal was not up to scratch, they exploited our lack of leg speed in defense. Our entries into f50 were crap, gave our forwards no real chance, credit to the North defence though.. Double teamed Hawkins the whole night and were excellent in the 1vs1s

 

[Partridge]

Terribly arrogant group of players. A group that is led by the senior players, not the coach(s). This is now more obvious than ever.

This team has a major mental issue, they only respect 3 teams in the league (Hawthorn, Sydney and Freo), any other side can simply beat us if they're willing to work hard.

What the **** is Chris Scott going to do about it? Cultural issue.

Couldn't agree more. I get the distinct impression the entire group of senior players - and that's Bartel, Corey, especially Johnson, especially Kelly - think they're above everyone because they've played in 3 premierships. Those premierships mean jack shit in 2013. Brisbane weren't awed by it, neither were Adelaide, and neither were North (neither they should be either). The form of those players is every bit as big an issue as the younger guys. But they are beyond criticism.

Corey Enright is the notable exception. He actually turns up and does his job every week. Made some uncharacteristic blunders last night but at least he was having a crack.

 

[Partridge]

x1000. And you can add Smedts, Gurthy, T Hunt and Varcoe to that list. There comes a point in the season where you have to stop playing youth and get your best side out on the the park no ******* around.

Problem is the senior players are no better and in some cases just as bad.

 

[CatFan79]

I actually thought the defensive unit didn't do too badly. How many North goals came from turnovers that left their forwards with acres of space in which to lead either to or from the ball? Hard to defend in those sort of conditions.

Correct, none of the North forwards were an issue last night similar to the Adelaide game.

10 of their 15 goals came from midfielders.

 

[Partridge]

but our older blokes are on their last legs, Corey, Bartel, Kelly etc...they would get run over like they did in the 2010 preliminary final which was full of old timers

Those three all got run over last night. Corey and Kelly in particular looked very slow and ordinary. Corey tried hard but he's struggling. 16 touches for the second week in a row. If he's still any kind of midfielder he needs more than that. Horrible defensive lapse to get the wrong side of number 5 for North too. Cost us a goal.

 

[Partridge]

Don't know why there is so much Varcoe hate, sure he wasn't as good as he would be at 100% but he did lay some tackles and pressured well.

If the MC had played Walker instead of Blicavs then Varcoe would have been subbed.

He and T Hunt shouldn't be getting games ahead of Murdoch.

Because he is a soft gutless receiver who runs past contests, flings an arm out (which is usually brushed aside), and his legion of fans on here scream "defensive pressure!".

When he's playing well he's a very good player. Awesome endurance, great skills and pace, and very clean. But when he's bad, he's horrible. Soft, timid, doesn't go near the ball and doesn't get nearly enough possessions. Unfortunately he's been horrible 3 weeks out of his last 4.

Should be dropped. Won't be.

 

[Partridge]

He did but everyone thinks disposals = quality.
Ridiculous to call for him to be dropped.

Also re: THunt, he was MUCH better in the second half on Harvey, owned him for those 2 quarters.

He was. Which begs the obvious question for Scott, if you knew he and Wells were danger players, why weren't they tagged from the start of the game? Why wasn't Hunt paying attention to Harvey like that all night?

The story of the last two years - lessons do not get learned.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Considering he smashed us in the first half and had almost double that amount yeah stopping his run was blanketing him.
Please don't be one of those who ONLY looks at stats, Harvey had little influence after half time.

But he took Wells in the first half who basically took the game away from us. Harvey was still BOG, if you think Hunt blanketed him you're kidding yourself. Why waste one of our players letting a player like Harvey have 13 touches in a half or even 26 for the game (hypothetically)? Why can't he beat his opponent to the ball.. EVER!? He just isn't productive at all.

Seriously, he runs around with almost no idea what he's doing. The amount of times I saw other team mates trying to pick up the man he was supposed to be TAGGING was ridiculous! His opponent just ran him off his feet all night. The falicy that he's fast is just so, so wrong. His engine isn't good either... Legitimately taken to cleaners almost weekly and just doesn't win the ball. The biggest liability in the team right now. No ****ing way he's playing next week.

Scott got this very wrong and I'd say this will be one of several changes he talked about in the press conference. We can no longer carry this hack.

 

[Partridge]

West has always been a grafter, tonight was a touch below par from him, however his scope for improvement isn't all that great and his best is mediocre by AFL-standards, whether judged as a 1st or 2nd ruckman.

I've seen Blicavs come in for a bit of stick, and he was pretty poor, but at least he gets involved, and his scope for improvement is still significant enough to persist with him in light of our present selection choices imo.

Vardy looked flat for most the night, bobbed up here and there in the 2nd half - I have some doubts over his durability and his endurance at this stage of his career, but I still reckon he offers more than West.

West - had a shocker. Really showed how much senior time he's missed. But, let's get the facts straight - he still had more hitouts than Vardy and Blicavs combined.

Vardy - offered a glimpse with 2 good goals. But as a ruckman was useless. 4 hitouts in total. Read that again. 4 hitouts. If you're looking for evidence that he's clearly our next great ruckman it wasn't there last night. He still has a long way to go.

Blicavs - has crashed into the wall. Just shit. Looked clueless and lost, and twice ran under the ball in marking attempts. Anyone who thinks this guy can stay in our side needs their head read. He's done for this year (which is understandable but he can't stay in this year).

 

[PatrickBateman]

Because he is a soft gutless receiver who runs past contests, flings an arm out (which is usually brushed aside), and his legion of fans on here scream "defensive pressure!".

When he's playing well he's a very good player. Awesome endurance, great skills and pace, and very clean. But when he's bad, he's horrible. Soft, timid, doesn't go near the ball and doesn't get nearly enough possessions. Unfortunately he's been horrible 3 weeks out of his last 4.

Should be dropped. Won't be.

He's consistently good when the team is up and bad when we're down. He never stands up in a game like last night where we're getting easily beaten to the ball. He's really only good for tackling, that's it.

I think he's lost much of his pace too. Looks heavy(ish).

If we think a flag is possible taking Varcoe and T.Hunt into finals, we've got to be dreaming.

 

[Partridge]

And the "heavy training load" excuse that some people have mentioned is the biggest crock Ive heard in my time on Bigfooty. What does that even mean? Its like a mythical reason we can attribute to the Cats when they play below standard. If Geelong are struggling because of a heavy trianing load five weeks out from finals then we have massive concerns because it really shouldnt be the case. Fit and firing we should be cruising along and knocking teams back like we have. Instead, it feels like we are stumbling into the finals and will make top 4 purely because of our run home involves a billion games at skilled.

Great, awesome post. It's a piss-poor excuse that is offered for EVERY SINGLE LOSS. We got beaten by Adelaide, and instantly it was "heavy training load, Adelaide were playing for their season". What happened last week? Adelaide got thrashed by Fremantle. Easily. Why didn't Fremantle lose to them?

This week North, and I would not be surprised at all if they get done by Adelaide next week.

 

[Partridge]

Taylor Hunt and TV will go out of side for Chapman and GHS.....would even suggest Cowan.

Biggest issue is the ruck. We need to recognise that we ain't going to win a cup without a genuine number 1. We just loose too many clearances.

Hopefully we can be brave and pick Hmac or even bring back DS straight into team. They don't need to do much else but ensure we win tap outs or at least negate opposition advantages.....Goldstein murdered us tonight

We lost the centre clearances a couple of times WITH Simpson in the team. No one wants to admit that just maybe that pack of elderly midfielders we have might be part of the problem as well.

 

[Partridge]

Think about it. In 2011 about this time Cats ramped up the work load, lost a few games, and then eased into finals mode. You can read about it in Gullan's book,

You can. It's filed in a category called "PAST HISTORY".

 

[Partridge]

Before the game, it was perfect to replace Pods with NV at CHF, Blic for NV , West for DS. What other option?

West was no doubt fatigued after a 4d recovery.
Blic had his worst game for 2013. But he is entitled to have one.
VARDY WAS FAIR.
Hawkins was really labouring.
We are carrying too many iffy/injured players- Varcoe, Hawkins, T Hunt, but we really have to persevere with them at this stage of 2013.

Vardy was fair up forward - maybe - but only due to his two goals. He was horrible in the ruck and worse than West.

 

[Partridge]

Time for the Johnson as a midfielder to be given away.
He's disposal is far to costly with his lack of hitting targets. Looks for the impossible far too often.
At least in the forward line gives us a medium target and you can be sure will be looking for goals instead of bullshit 30 metre passes.
Play caddy more midfield and Johnno forward.

I wish it was 1982 and a coach like Jeans could smack the shit out of Johnson at training.

Fed up with his arrogance, his directing traffic and trying to do the impossible.

Here's a challenge you arrogant smartarse? How about do the basics? When you've got the ball hit a leading teammate? For a bigger challenge do it twice in a row. When you want to centre the ball, how about not looking for Varcoe to run into a pack (which is impossible) or when West is the only backup and he's 30 metres away?

Genius no. Smartarse yes.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I like it that he does the unexpected, provided it comes off, which is did.
Plus this lack of confidence from him is not new so it could be seen as the team option.
The same thing re shot can be said of Blitz. Surely a professional AFL player could dob it from there????

Everyone sees the game differently. It just got me at that moment we needed a key forward to slot it through and not muck about. If you are a key forward and 35 out at not too bad an angle, you shouldn't be looking for better options. It shows doubt. Mooney GF 2008 doubt.

 

[Partridge]

Facts:

1) we always lose in the ruck - Simpson or not. We've only dominated in HO twice all year. Need to seriously look at why we lose center clearances even when and if we win HO's.

2) We were completely out-coached. Plain and simple. That's what put our players under the pump.

3) Johnson takes too many unnecessary risks, and his turnovers cost us 3 goals tonight.

4) Vardy and Blitz have talent but lack experience- and it shows. A couple of years off. We need to quit believing our own BS about their potency. West had a shocker but is the only option we have in the ruck. Hopefully next week he'll be back to being average enough to compete and keep us in touch. But, as mentioned above, even when we win HO's, we lose center clearances.

5) Hawkins is an enigmatic problem. Clearly not fit but you can't drop him. Any other player not 100% gets dropped automatically. The Hawk takes one or two of their best talls but we still don't have any crumbers around? WTF? Out coached.

6) Guthrie, Caddy and Duncan looked great.

Great post.

Point 1 - no one wants to admit this. The elephant in the room is an old midfield with guys that can't play there anymore (Bartel and Corey), or simply are nowhere near as good as we think they are (Corey and Kelly).

Point 3 - absolutely agree.

Point 4 - another home truth no one wants to face, as they are two of the absolute golden boys. Funny how West is singled out for criticism (and he was poor), but he had more hitouts than these two did together.

Point 6 - agree. Positive signs from all. Caddy needs to look more before he gets rid of it but getting better. Duncan and Guthrie showed great flashes.

 

[Partridge]

Corey was better than most. Considerably.

Corey tried harder than most. Doesn't mean he was better.

 

[Partridge]

The 3 games we seem to have trouble with every year NM at Docklands -lost to them last year -and it should be 0-2 this year
Adelaide away -lost last year -lost this year
Collingwood at mcg -lost the last 3

I'll add a 4th:

West Coast in Perth - we play there in a fortnight. Absolutely no chance.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Great, awesome post. It's a piss-poor excuse that is offered for EVERY SINGLE LOSS. We got beaten by Adelaide, and instantly it was "heavy training load, Adelaide were playing for their season". What happened last week? Adelaide got thrashed by Fremantle. Easily. Why didn't Fremantle lose to them?

This week North, and I would not be surprised at all if they get done by Adelaide next week.

Exactly... God forbid these guys have to come out for 2 hours of a week and actually work hard.

It's a cycle of entering a game without respect for the opponent. The game style of scoring predominantly from rebounding is just lazy. Working hard to win the ball is where the grunt work is, we aren't bothered against 'lesser' opponents unless one has just beaten us. We exclusively tackled and rebounded last night, that's it. We weren't just beaten to the ball, we gave them huge space and time to do whatever they liked (100 more disposals?). They had 30% more touches than us FFS.

So now what? We go down to our 'flat track' and give Port a pasting as retribution? This side is becoming increasingly transparent.