AFL Team of the 21st Century (Rolling)

[South of the Yarra]

This is spot on. These clown posters have been deliriously celebrating finally finding a chink in Dusty's armour, only it is no chink at all. It is merely the coaches voting in the b&f reflecting how well the player performed the role he was given. You perform a minor role exceptionally well you get 5 votes, you perform a major role exceptionally well you get 5 votes. Dusty playing under the voting system a Leigh Matthews or Kevin Bartlett played under has won about 6-7 b & f's by now. Richmond construct their best and fairest voting to try to get the team to perform as well as possible, to a greater extent than other clubs, most of whom seem to see it as more important that their best player over the season wins their b & f.

But it is funny watching South of the Yarra wildly celebrate hooking a massive tuna all the time not realising all he has hooked is a red herring. Not to mention watching Fadge repeatedly high 5ing him for his "impressive" haul.

I don’t need hooks for tuna.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don’t need hooks for tuna.

Nor red herring it seems.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Another great thread being ruined by those trying to turn it into the Martin show.

Sad.

Actually this derailment was started by Collingwood supporters insisting that Pendlebury should start on the ground instead of Martin, a view not shared by any poster in this thread other than Pies fans. Sadly Richmond fans took the bait, rather than ignoring the pathetic trolling drivel

 

[Fadge]

Naicos (96 coaches votes) came equal second in the Pies B&F with Maynard (4 coaches votes). But aren’t both awards getting votes from the coaches ?

Hang on, I thought only Richmond's 'unique' voting system could produce results like this?

You guys really don't do yourself any favours...

 

[Fadge]

Another great thread being ruined by those trying to turn it into the Martin show.

Sad.

Indeed.

And now they're doubling down on their assertion that a system that rates the best player on the ground 5 times better than the fifth best player, and that fifth best player infinitely better than the sixth best player, is better and more accurate than a more flexible system that can rate two or three players equally, as the best, second best, or third best players on the ground (for example).

 

[Iceman!]

Also is Bruest actually a small forward? To me Bruest and Buddy are opposite. Buddy is a small forward trapped in a tall forwards body and Bruest is a tall forward trapped in a small forwards body.

Absolutely he is, whilst he is good on the lead he is one of the best forwards i have ever seen when it comes to reading the flight of the ball in the air, crumbing it off a pack and the best front and centre player i have seen.

 

[Fadge]

Lol you are trying to claim Martin is not a truly elite player and reckon I am tying myself in knots. Collingwood have had 5 permanent forwards or defenders win their b&f in the last 34 years. Richmond have had 6 from 2010(14 years) onwards when Dusty started playing. You think both clubs are using any sort of similar criteria for their b&f voting?

Interesting that you go back 34 years.

Wayne Campbell must have played his role exceptionally well as a midfielder to win 4 B&F awards under Richmond's 'unique' voting system.

Richmond's 'unique' voting system didn't stop Cotchin from winning 3 in 4 years when he was at his peak.

Stop apologising for Martin - he's been a great player for your club.

Edit: I also like how you used 'average' player ratings for Martin - to be able to sneak in 2021 when he played what half a season?

Wowee.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Interesting that you go back 34 years.

Wayne Campbell must have played his role exceptionally well as a midfielder to win 4 B&F awards under Richmond's 'unique' voting system.

Richmond's 'unique' voting system didn't stop Cotchin from winning 3 in 4 years when he was at his peak.

Stop apologising for Martin - he's been a great player for your club.

Edit: I also like how you used 'average' player ratings for Martin - to be able to sneak in 2021 when he played what half a season?

Wowee.

You could probably switch average player ratings for total player ratings and total coaches votes for average total votes and get the same results.

I only went back 34 years for Collingwood because it shows they seem to have forever just awarded their b&f to their best midfielder about 6 out of every 7 seasons.

I do not know the history of Richmond's b&f in terms of how long the current system of voting has been in place. But we can see throughout Martin's career, Richmond's best midfielder only wins the b&f about just over half the time.

Regardless, if you go by coaches votes and player ratings, Martin has been Richmond's best player of the season anything from 5 to 8 times. If he was playing at Collingwood with that profile he wins 5-8 Copelands, it is pretty clear.

The reason this has not affected Cotchin in the same way is because his best performances are not off the scale Richmond uses in the same way Dusty's are, so Cotchin is getting full credit for the level of his play more often in his best games. Dusty gets limited to the amount of votes others get when they play at their maximum, and it is obvious from all other awards Dusty's maximum is way above that scale. But as you are devoted non-binary, - who of Cotchin and Martin do you think has performed better in the Richmond B & F over their careers?

I am sure Noidnadroj will sort that question out for us...

 

[Fadge]

But as you are devoted non-binary, - who of Cotchin and Martin do you think has performed better in the Richmond B & F over their careers?

I don't know and don't care to know.

But at least you're now comparing Martin to someone else on his level though.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don't know and don't care to know.

But at least you're now comparing Martin to someone else on his level though.

Let it be known Fadge thinks Dustin Martin and Trent Cotchin are the same level of player. Which if it were true would mean Richmond has had 2 GOATS in one era.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Let’s address Martin’s lack of consistent football at elite levels in simple terms. If you REMOVE stats from the 4 x seasons Martin was selected in the AA team (so as not to skew the data with his ‘best’ seasons of which people seem to think he’s had 4-5), for the other 10 x years of his career Martin averages 23.47 disposals and 1.15 goals per game. So that’s across 199 x games.

Players in a SINGLE SEASON who have averaged 23+ and 1.1+ goals:

2023: Martin and Petracca
2022: nobody
2021: Bont and Petracca
2020: Nobody (shortened games… Martin the only player to average 20+ and 1+)
2019: Martin, Danger and Greene
2018: Martin, Bont and Parker
2017: Martin, Danger and Zorko
2016: Gray and Zorko
2015: Gray

That’s the data for 9 x years. Other than Martin just 7 x players have averaged 23+ and 1.1+ in a single season across the last 9 x seasons. Martin did it across 199 games not including his 4 x AA seasons.

So leave him out of your team if you want, no worries. This info might help squash some popular misconceptions, that’s all.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Fadge]

Let it be known Fadge thinks Dustin Martin and Trent Cotchin are the same level of player. Which if it were true would mean Richmond has had 2 GOATS in one era.

You're the one who was asking for them to be compared, not me.

 

[KissKiss]

Lachie Neale's a dual Brownlow Medalist.

Do you go with him or Pendlebury?

Hodge on a half back flank, Pendlebury as a mid rotation off the bench.

Pendlebury's legacy will increase when he stops playing. And longevity and leadership counts.

At the moment Im not sure who I would pick as both at the moment are probably on the bench and will likely get knocked out of the team in the future (assuming they dont go and have another all time great season).

Neale's record is pretty amazing on paper 2*Brownlow, 1*MVP, 1*AFLCA, 3*AA, 5*CC and there will always be that question over missing a Brownlow to a questionable Cripps, and, I think it was, 2 questionable AA snubs. But both of those will likely be forgotten when comparing records at the end of the century.

At this point to make the team come the end of the century as a midfielder you are going to have to be entering all time great conversations. They will likely need to have won at least 2-3 of every one of those awards to stack up. Neither Neale, Pendelbury, Dangerfield, Cripps will make it. To be honest maybe none of the current players will make it, its a massive record they will need to cover

 

[RUNVS]

Actually this derailment was started by Collingwood supporters insisting that Pendlebury should start on the ground instead of Martin, a view not shared by any poster in this thread other than Pies fans. Sadly Richmond fans took the bait, rather than ignoring the pathetic trolling drivel

I argued that I did not think Tom Stewart should be in the 21st century team and Geelong supporters have not turned this thread into a Tom Stewart wank fest.

 

[RichLeMonde]

I argued that I did not think Tom Stewart should be in the 21st century team and Geelong supporters have not turned this thread into a Tom Stewart wank fest.

That’s because the 2 situations are not comparable. There have been many supporters of various clubs in this thread who don’t think Stewart should be in, since he’s up against all timers like Enright and Hodge.

That’s not comparable to what I referred to in my post, which was Collingwood supporters - and no supporters of any other club in this thread - insisting that Pendlebury should start on the ground ahead of Martin in a team of the 21st century. Richmond supporters shouldn’t have even dignified that with a response, given how silly it is. It was just a time wasting troll comment, and sadly Tigers fans took the bait.

Edit: a better comparison would be if Saints fans (and Saints fans only) were to start posting in this thread that Nick Riewoldt should clearly start at centre half forward instead of Buddy, because Roo won 6 BnFs to Buddy’s 1, and they kept going on and on about, even though everyone knows it’s ridiculous. Maybe some Swans fans would be wise enough to just ignore it, but I’m sure a few would get sucked into responding. Now whose fault would that be?

 

[Fadge]

That’s because the 2 situations are not comparable. There have been many supporters of various clubs in this thread who don’t think Stewart should be in, since he’s up against all timers like Enright and Hodge.

That’s not comparable to what I referred to in my post, which was Collingwood supporters - and no supporters of any other club in this thread - insisting that Pendlebury should start on the ground ahead of Martin in a team of the 21st century. Richmond supporters shouldn’t have even dignified that with a response, given how silly it is. It was just a time wasting troll comment, and sadly Tigers fans took the bait.

Edit: a better comparison would be if Saints fans (and Saints fans only) were to start posting in this thread that Nick Riewoldt should clearly start at centre half forward instead of Buddy, because Roo won 6 BnFs to Buddy’s 1, and they kept going on and on about, even though everyone knows it’s ridiculous. Maybe some Swans fans would be wise enough to just ignore it, but I’m sure a few would get sucked into responding. Now whose fault would that be?

There have been plenty of neutral supporters in the various threads who have rated Pendlebury ahead of Martin.

Only deluded Richmond supporters would consider it a 'ridiculous' position.

 

[JackOutback]

That’s because the 2 situations are not comparable. There have been many supporters of various clubs in this thread who don’t think Stewart should be in, since he’s up against all timers like Enright and Hodge.

That’s not comparable to what I referred to in my post, which was Collingwood supporters - and no supporters of any other club in this thread - insisting that Pendlebury should start on the ground ahead of Martin in a team of the 21st century. Richmond supporters shouldn’t have even dignified that with a response, given how silly it is. It was just a time wasting troll comment, and sadly Tigers fans took the bait.

Edit: a better comparison would be if Saints fans (and Saints fans only) were to start posting in this thread that Nick Riewoldt should clearly start at centre half forward instead of Buddy, because Roo won 6 BnFs to Buddy’s 1, and they kept going on and on about, even though everyone knows it’s ridiculous. Maybe some Swans fans would be wise enough to just ignore it, but I’m sure a few would get sucked into responding. Now whose fault would that be?

Here's a bold suggestion.

 

[Frewy]

Carey didn't have much impact in the 21st century and his best was clearly in the 20th century while Lockett played just 3 games .

It's more the likes of Hird, Buckley, Voss, Fletcher, Wanganeen, Mcleod, Ricciuto who played across the 90s and 00s.

Agreed which is why I still don't include Lockett. Unfortunately him and Carey would likely have been ineligble for the Centenary team as both had large chunks of career missing so would have to be considered in the next 2096 Centenary team (if relevant), 2090 AFL Centenary team (if created) or 21st Century team unless there is a retroactive 20th Century AFL/VFL team.

Mike Sheehan had Wayne Carey as the best player of all time so he has to be in one of the teams and as much as I like Ken Farmer, Lockett would probably be the FF over Coleman and him in any 20th Century Team. I think it's actually good there off it because having two of the greatest to do it missing century honours should hopefully force the AFL to fix this at some stage, albeit I doubt any time soon though Carey's Legend status eligibility debate could also force the issue as years progress.

 

[The Punter]

Let’s address Martin’s lack of consistent football at elite levels in simple terms. If you REMOVE stats from the 4 x seasons Martin was selected in the AA team (so as not to skew the data with his ‘best’ seasons of which people seem to think he’s had 4-5), for the other 10 x years of his career Martin averages 23.47 disposals and 1.15 goals per game. So that’s across 199 x games.

Players in a SINGLE SEASON who have averaged 23+ and 1.1+ goals:

2023: Martin and Petracca
2022: nobody
2021: Bont and Petracca
2020: Nobody (shortened games… Martin the only player to average 20+ and 1+)
2019: Martin, Danger and Greene
2018: Martin, Bont and Parker
2017: Martin, Danger and Zorko
2016: Gray and Zorko
2015: Gray

That’s the data for 9 x years. Other than Martin just 7 x players have averaged 23+ and 1.1+ in a single season across the last 9 x seasons. Martin did it across 199 games not including his 4 x AA seasons.

So leave him out of your team if you want, no worries. This info might help squash some popular misconceptions, that’s all.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

1.1 goals per game is an odd exclusion point... but it excludes Billings in 2017 (23 and 1)

 

[Fadge]

1.1 goals per game is an odd exclusion point... but it excludes Billings in 2017 (23 and 1)

It was 21 and 1, before he sat out his team's must win round 22 game against St. Kilda before returning to fill his boots in two dead rubbers once his team were no longer in finals contention...

 

[The Punter]

It was 21 and 1, before he sat out his team's must win round 22 game against St. Kilda before returning to fill his boots in two dead rubbers once his team were no longer in finals contention...

Sorry, but who is your post referring to?

 

[Caligo]

Let’s address Martin’s lack of consistent football at elite levels in simple terms. If you REMOVE stats from the 4 x seasons Martin was selected in the AA team (so as not to skew the data with his ‘best’ seasons of which people seem to think he’s had 4-5), for the other 10 x years of his career Martin averages 23.47 disposals and 1.15 goals per game. So that’s across 199 x games.

Players in a SINGLE SEASON who have averaged 23+ and 1.1+ goals:

2023: Martin and Petracca
2022: nobody
2021: Bont and Petracca
2020: Nobody (shortened games… Martin the only player to average 20+ and 1+)
2019: Martin, Danger and Greene
2018: Martin, Bont and Parker
2017: Martin, Danger and Zorko
2016: Gray and Zorko
2015: Gray

That’s the data for 9 x years. Other than Martin just 7 x players have averaged 23+ and 1.1+ in a single season across the last 9 x seasons. Martin did it across 199 games not including his 4 x AA seasons.

So leave him out of your team if you want, no worries. This info might help squash some popular misconceptions, that’s all.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

How many seasons did Lethal average 20 disposals and 2 goals a game or whatever your current bar is for a good player?

 

[The Punter]

How many seasons did Lethal average 20 disposals and 2 goals a game or whatever your current bar is for a good player?

12 consecutive seasons from 1971 to 1982.

 

[Fadge]

Sorry, but who is your post referring to?

The player referenced in the post you were responding to.

 

[The Punter]

The player referenced in the post you were responding to.

So in 2017, while playing for St Kilda, Billings missed a game against St Kilda? Can you just assume I missed something everyone else is getting and re-state it clearly?