Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency XI - McKay. Goldstein. Gresham. Duursma!

[Lore]

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Trade wrap: Essendon player movement period

See all the movements from the 2023 trade period.

www.essendonfc.com.au

 

[Keystone agony]

Is it really a fairy land?

He's 24 and Eagles will be a minimum 4-5 years away from being competitive. Does he want to spend the prime of his career at a club who is rebuilding from ground zero?

I assume we'd pay handsomely for him but it's not unrealistic like a Nick Daicos trade for example.

Hes signed for 2 more years, the eagles arent letting him go for anything that teams are prepared to pay

 

[Beerfish]

He's 24 and Eagles will be a minimum 4-5 years away from being competitive. Does he want to spend the prime of his career at a club who is rebuilding from ground zero?

That's a fair point. I guess we just need him to say he wants to come to us?

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Hes signed for 2 more years, the eagles arent letting him go for anything that teams are prepared to pay

He signed that extension when they were still a top 8 team and looked capable. Completely different story now. If I were him, I'd be having a good hard think about his future (and I'm sure he is). Contracts don't mean as much as they use to either.

Eagles will get a nice payday for him, that is without question. I'd be all for it.

 

[andleanback]

Slobbo saying we have to make Oscar Allen a huge offer and make him our highest paid player.

How many reds had slobbo had before he wrote that

 

[andleanback]

Just as much, if not more

This board live in fairy land sometimes, sad

Top 2 5 picks come on he’s not Judd. He’ll never leave so it’s a mute point. But you’re moreorless saying 4-5 first round picks (almost impossible to get your hands on 2 top 5 picks, say unless you’re north)

 

[Beerfish]

How many reds had slobbo had before he wrote that

 

[eth-dog]

Aaron Naughton

33

Aaron Naughton

Age

24

Ht

196cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

4.9

5star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

6.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.3

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

0.8

1star

G

0.5

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.0

1star

is the guy.

 

[ghostdog]

Phillips (32) and Heppell (31) are convincingly over 30. Shiel and Walla turned 30 a couple of months ago.

Next ones to go over the hill will be Stewart, Stringer and Hind, who all turn 30 next year, although Hind has yet to turn 29 so it's a bit unfair to round him up that much.

Stringer has been playing like he's over the hill.

 

[ghostdog]

Slobbo saying we have to make Oscar Allen a huge offer and make him our highest paid player.

So if he's saying this, and we know he's a mouthpiece, maybe he's speaking for others at the club...

 

[jdstorm]

Yeah it’s the opposite of how finals are played. Think we’ve seen last fortnight we aren’t up to that intensity

I think we are when stringer plays midfield. Sheil and setterfield in the side also help with that considerably.

That’s the thing about a lack of stars /600k players. They scaffold the list and free up decent players to thrive with less responsibility.

Thing is Jake isn’t a reliable midfielder/HHF due to fitness/durability and Sheil/setterfield have missed a lot of games due to injury and that’s affected team structure immensely.

It’s also telling that 2-3 players being out with injury can tear the team apart.

 

[Yoda_]

Aaron Naughton is the guy.

no he's not.. Unless you want to play him at CHB?

 

[Yoda_]

Need to find out if the next group of guys are actually up to it. Montgomerie was a mature aged pick up, Baldwin is now 3 years into his rookie listing, need to confirm what Walla's position for next year. Heppel has learnt enough credits in last 8 weeks to earn another year imho. Disappointing we can't see Reid, Jones, Hunter at the end of this year to find out how they are tracking. Stewart needs to be paid out. Snelling I have called for weeks to be moved on. Glad people are seeing it.

I was probably seduced by the results and more so the intent earlier in the year with so many close losses but truth be told, this group is still 2 pre seasons away from making the jump. It is simply lacking something that is not there.

 

[MiguelM]

With Hind getting older and Mass not coming on as I hoped, we need speed.

Martin, Durham & Perkins will be better for another preseason but we need a genuine line breaker. We have totally lost our run through the midfield.

And need a big bodied young ruck on the list or a mid aged one to replace Phillips.

Bryan not to leave the weights room over summer too.

 

[jdstorm]

Need to find out if the next group of guys are actually up to it. Montgomerie was a mature aged pick up, Baldwin is now 3 years into his rookie listing, need to confirm what Walla's position for next year. Heppel has learnt enough credits in last 8 weeks to earn another year imho. Disappointing we can't see Reid, Jones, Hunter at the end of this year to find out how they are tracking. Stewart needs to be paid out. Snelling I have called for weeks to be moved on. Glad people are seeing it.

I was probably seduced by the results and more so the intent earlier in the year with so many close losses but truth be told, this group is still 2 pre seasons away from making the jump. It is simply lacking something that is not there.

The group was playing different earlier in the season. The structure that worked was 2 rucks (Draper resting forward) + 1 Key forward, Langford and Stringer as medium forwards and 3 pressure smalls.

Then having Hind/Mass off HB to generate some run.

This game Draper was out, Stringer was essentially playing as a pressure forward (and was terrible) and there was no run off HB until Hind came on.

This team tonight had no attacking weapons aside from Langford/Wright and it showed

 

[Yoda_]

With Hind getting older and Mass not coming on as I hoped, we need speed.

Martin, Durham & Perkins will be better for another preseason but we need a genuine line breaker. We have totally lost our run through the midfield.

And need a big bodied young ruck on the list or a mid aged one to replace Phillips.

Bryan not to leave the weights room over summer too.

have said for a few months now that midfielders is not our issue, it is creative flankers. An offensive flanker in the Will Hayward, Zac Bailey, Zac Butters mould &/or an offensive kicking half back in the Maynard, Houston, Salem mould as well

 

[MiguelM]

have said for a few months now that midfielders is not our issue, it is creative flankers. An offensive flanker in the Will Hayward, Zac Bailey, Zac Butters mould &/or an offensive kicking half back in the Maynard, Houston, Salem mould as well

Agreed totally.

We get smashed on the flanks for speed.

Hind was the only player that even looked like breaking a line.

 

[ghostdog]

Need to find out if the next group of guys are actually up to it. Montgomerie was a mature aged pick up, Baldwin is now 3 years into his rookie listing, need to confirm what Walla's position for next year. Heppel has learnt enough credits in last 8 weeks to earn another year imho. Disappointing we can't see Reid, Jones, Hunter at the end of this year to find out how they are tracking. Stewart needs to be paid out. Snelling I have called for weeks to be moved on. Glad people are seeing it.

I was probably seduced by the results and more so the intent earlier in the year with so many close losses but truth be told, this group is still 2 pre seasons away from making the jump. It is simply lacking something that is not there.

Yep. I think I'm more convinced about Snelling than I was. Get ADJ through another preseason and get him in there.

 

[BrunoV]

Ok? Why play Snelling ahead of Menzie? Weideman ahead of Voss?

How else does one learn what one already knows about a list?

It's been the same story across 4 coaches for more than 10 years now. I believe our issues with player development stem directly from the identity crisis the club has been mired in, basically pretending it is good and never actually dealing with reality that we're too slow, lack running power, too small and physicslly weak around the ball or whatever the problems are at any given point. The weapon of team selection is never used to provoke change or evolution.

The sides picked are always hopelessly conservative, always geared toward achieving pathetic results delivered, and developing or supporting whatever pathetic culture has existed, rather than developing a list and team. Even now we're young but that is due to bad list management and we still spend the season, with the buffer of a coach who can sell sand to Arabs, picking the most conservative team possible. The older players are rubbish and we pick them for the 'leadership' and 'quality' that has been a real feature of their respective careers.

Players don't develop if you don't pick them. Let's stick with the basics rather than the leap of faith of trying to second guess whether there are whisperers out there who are geniuses at player development. We have invested a shit load in that stuff since Hird started. We've poached many of the development gurus. But what is the one thing as fans we know Essendon doesn't do? Play the players. We will keep them around for years, that's true, but we never really find a way to upset the team at selection. Because the seniors players are always too good, clearly.

This is fundamentally the role of the head coach, to shape a list and team into something that looks the part. For about 12 years I've watched players, with attributes which would be valuable to the side, hit form in the VFL and get ignored and then fall out of form. At the same time I've watched players as bad as Francis Evans, Zach Guthrie and James Parsons get opportunities for Geelong. There was a real high point for the illustration when we played and beat Geelong at Windy Hill one year. Long was good and had been so for a month, JJ was pure shite. Who do you think got the run in the seniors directly after that game?

Now, someone will come here and say it is easy for Geelong. But Hawthorn, Sydney and Richmond all had the advantage of it being easy and they all fell away too. The other observation that demands to be made in response is that this belief we couldn't aggressively and proactively evolve the side doesn't serve us anyway so what would be the difference if we tried something new and still failed?

Brad has gotten as close as he could to wasting this year and it was almost impossible to waste the year. What did he learn about the list that was unexpected or that he couldn't have already known by the end of pre-season, looking at GPS data and maybe some key footage. Well done, Brad. Well done. You've reached the level of knowledge of the list of a semi-artuculate Bigfooty poster.

 

[wichidi]

have said for a few months now that midfielders is not our issue, it is creative flankers. An offensive flanker in the Will Hayward, Zac Bailey, Zac Butters mould &/or an offensive kicking half back in the Maynard, Houston, Salem mould as well

You’re partly in luck. Recruiting flankers is dodoro’s speciality. Creative flankers on the other hand…

 

[ghostdog]

have said for a few months now that midfielders is not our issue, it is creative flankers. An offensive flanker in the Will Hayward, Zac Bailey, Zac Butters mould &/or an offensive kicking half back in the Maynard, Houston, Salem mould as well

Just posted elsewhere that I've cooled on McKay as an option due to his distribution. Would do nothing to improve us offensively and we'd see the same sideways movement in the backline like last night. Barrass seems a better option, albeit without the height.

Someone also mentioned Dylan Stephens; would have liked him a couple of years ago but I don't think he's getting picked at the Swans and his contract is up.

 

[ant555]

Need to find out if the next group of guys are actually up to it. Montgomerie was a mature aged pick up, Baldwin is now 3 years into his rookie listing, need to confirm what Walla's position for next year. Heppel has learnt enough credits in last 8 weeks to earn another year imho. Disappointing we can't see Reid, Jones, Hunter at the end of this year to find out how they are tracking. Stewart needs to be paid out. Snelling I have called for weeks to be moved on. Glad people are seeing it.

I was probably seduced by the results and more so the intent earlier in the year with so many close losses but truth be told, this group is still 2 pre seasons away from making the jump. It is simply lacking something that is not there.

I think people have always questioned Snelling. The issue has been it is fine to say move him on but who is going to do the same job ? I think he will get delisted. They will use one of the midfielders in his role going forward.

No way Heppell goes on for me . He is playing okay footy but he is also filling a spot at half back that we need to get some drive from.

If Walla can not break into the side by the end of the year then that may be over.

I think it has been very obvious that we are 3 or 4 years away. Scott has not even scratched the surface. There was a very clear message to the club from Scott that if you think we are close then I am not the man for the job because you are not. People really need to get their heads around the fact that this is another rebuild and it may well take another 3 to 5 years to see IF it actually works. We are an average side.

 

[ant555]

Yeah but watch how hard he competes. Rather than Weideman. Reckon Voss could be in next week for Bryan. Rather Bryan play ahead of Phillips

Yes Voss does compete but it is not over the whole game and they players he is actually competing with are Langford and Stringer and to a lesser extent Perkins. He has not shown any ability to play a KPF role in the VFL. Even in his good games. That is the thing. People keep saying Voss but he can not take a contested mark. He does not work up and back very well. Despite his physical nature he had a big drop of in that part of the game for a number of weeks in the VFL. You can not try and develop players only to throw them into a role they will fail in at AFL level. If Voss gets into the side it should be for Stringer who is clearly playing injured. He is not a KPF and my bet is he will not be on the list next year.

 

[ant555]

I’ll put the question out there then. What would you do to fix the list since you all have come up with some great ideas of your own?

I was on record here as far as trading Parish for a decent pick at the end of last year before pretty much anyone was saying it.
There are things that will not happen but if someone was interested in Stringer then he goes. Same with Shiel. If there was interested you would not stand in the way.
BZT has improved this year but he is a second tall defender so if one of the SA clubs really want him then he is expendable.
There are some obvious ones. Heppell is done. Snelling has probably run his race. Stewart needs to be paid out. Not sure we really need Phillips.
One thing I am not doing is trading Martin. Different if he was 25 but he is just getting going and if we get it right one player that would be part of it.

 

[Dudoro]

How else does one learn what one already knows about a list?

It's been the same story across 4 coaches for more than 10 years now. I believe our issues with player development stem directly from the identity crisis the club has been mired in, basically pretending it is good and never actually dealing with reality that we're too slow, lack running power, too small and physicslly weak around the ball or whatever the problems are at any given point. The weapon of team selection is never used to provoke change or evolution.

The sides picked are always hopelessly conservative, always geared toward achieving pathetic results delivered, and developing or supporting whatever pathetic culture has existed, rather than developing a list and team. Even now we're young but that is due to bad list management and we still spend the season, with the buffer of a coach who can sell sand to Arabs, picking the most conservative team possible. The older players are rubbish and we pick them for the 'leadership' and 'quality' that has been a real feature of their respective careers.

Players don't develop if you don't pick them. Let's stick with the basics rather than the leap of faith of trying to second guess whether there are whisperers out there who are geniuses at player development. We have invested a s**t load in that stuff since Hird started. We've poached many of the development gurus. But what is the one thing as fans we know Essendon doesn't do? Play the players. We will keep them around for years, that's true, but we never really find a way to upset the team at selection. Because the seniors players are always too good, clearly.

This is fundamentally the role of the head coach, to shape a list and team into something that looks the part. For about 12 years I've watched players, with attributes which would be valuable to the side, hit form in the VFL and get ignored and then fall out of form. At the same time I've watched players as bad as Francis Evans, Zach Guthrie and James Parsons get opportunities for Geelong. There was a real high point for the illustration when we played and beat Geelong at Windy Hill one year. Long was good and had been so for a month, JJ was pure shite. Who do you think got the run in the seniors directly after that game?

Now, someone will come here and say it is easy for Geelong. But Hawthorn, Sydney and Richmond all had the advantage of it being easy and they all fell away too. The other observation that demands to be made in response is that this belief we couldn't aggressively and proactively evolve the side doesn't serve us anyway so what would be the difference if we tried something new and still failed?

Brad has gotten as close as he could to wasting this year and it was almost impossible to waste the year. What did he learn about the list that was unexpected or that he couldn't have already known by the end of pre-season, looking at GPS data and maybe some key footage. Well done, Brad. Well done. You've reached the level of knowledge of the list of a semi-artuculate Bigfooty poster.

Exactly right and my point. What the hell is rebuild on the run? It means we should be rebuilding but our ego will not allow us to spend the tough years at the bottom. Getting quality young talent, giving games to younger players.
So instead we just stay mid table and never or rarely have poor seasons but we are never close to being a contender.

 

[BrunoV]

Yes Voss does compete but it is not over the whole game and they players he is actually competing with are Langford and Stringer and to a lesser extent Perkins. He has not shown any ability to play a KPF role in the VFL. Even in his good games. That is the thing. People keep saying Voss but he can not take a contested mark. He does not work up and back very well. Despite his physical nature he had a big drop of in that part of the game for a number of weeks in the VFL. You can not try and develop players only to throw them into a role they will fail in at AFL level. If Voss gets into the side it should be for Stringer who is clearly playing injured. He is not a KPF and my bet is he will not be on the list next year.

He did not take contested marks against Geelong. He dropped a 4 or 5 marks which weren't even contested.

When he was in form at the start of the year he had no such problem.

If we were looking to really utilise all available talent we'd be doing at least 2 things:

1. having Voss play a role that mirrors Snelling's role in the AFL (being that of the half forward outnumber player);

2. we'd play Massimo in a floating link possession role that has seen Parish descend into complete irrelevance because he can't use the ball. Imagine Massimo taking up position as an old fashioned centre being fed the ball and pinging passes all around the ground. I say taking up position because I'd not want him in at centre bounces or stoppages generally.