Certified Legendary Thread Alastair Clarksons.

[Danni_Benson]

Keep losing by these margins and even Clarko will be like 'f that too hard'

There’s only upside for the next coach.

 

[The Nostradamus]

There’s only upside for the next coach.

Yep no pressure for the next coach

They will look like a genius in comparison to nobles

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

I hoped for and supported Noble (well before others gave up on him) but he has failed.

Yes for Clarkson.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Clarkson won 18 games in his first three years. (4, 5, 9)

Noble is zero chance of getting anywhere near that total, even if he does magically stay at the helm next year.

 

[The Dingrel]

He’s taking over the AFLW side

So crock is available!

 

[Rooboys13]

Um unlikely! Absolutely rubbish.

Also he doesn’t have ‘kids’ in school. He has one doing year 12.

He has 2 kids at the same school as my kids, a certain elite bayside school if you want to cast aspersions. Kids is the term I use, if they are your offspring. I don’t ask elderly people how many adults do they have? I ask about their children..... sheeesh

 

[chairo]

Haven't we already gone down the ex-Hawthorn coach route with John Kennedy?

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

Clarkson won 18 games in his first three years. (4, 5, 9)

Noble is zero chance of getting anywhere near that total, even if he does magically stay at the helm next year.

Clarkson had a recruiting team that realised they needed a strong spine to build around and made the tough calls to make it happen.

Ours has pretty much neglected to do anything about our spinal woes and has continued to draft mids and speculative HBFs…

How the hell can you expect to win football matches with a 186cm player in Hayden lining up at CHB or not having a second key forward for the entire year?

 

[ferball]

Clarkson had a recruiting team that realised they needed a strong spine to build around and made the tough calls to make it happen.

Ours has pretty much neglected to do anything about our spinal woes and has continued to draft mids and speculative HBFs…

How the hell can you expect to win football matches with a 186cm player in Hayden lining up at CHB or not having a second key forward for the entire year?

In the last decade we'd drafted one first round mid (LDU) before we drafted Phillips and Powell in 2020. Jy and TT weren't drafted as midfielders.

However we brought three players in as Defenders. Walker and Corr, and we drafted a speculative McGuiness as a catB rookie. We've also drafted a ruck/forward, traded in another and drafted Comben in the last couple of years. Its not like we've ignored the spine, the recruiters just haven't done the best job of building it. Maybe they did the best with the resources they had available, maybe not. But the head guys are all gone right now.

 

[Lomas]

In the last decade we'd drafted one first round mid (LDU) before we drafted Phillips and Powell in 2020. Jy and TT weren't drafted as midfielders.

However we brought three players in as Defenders. Walker and Corr, and we drafted a speculative McGuiness as a catB rookie. We've also drafted a ruck/forward, traded in another and drafted Comben in the last couple of years. Its not like we've ignored the spine, the recruiters just haven't done the best job of building it. Maybe they did the best with the resources they had available, maybe not. But the head guys are all gone right now.

Yep. 2014 was the big miss, with three decent picks on defenders who didn't make it. A couple more 26 year olds with 100+ games would be handy now.

 

[CarnTheKANGAS]

In the last decade we'd drafted one first round mid (LDU) before we drafted Phillips and Powell in 2020. Jy and TT weren't drafted as midfielders.

However we brought three players in as Defenders. Walker and Corr, and we drafted a speculative McGuiness as a catB rookie. We've also drafted a ruck/forward, traded in another and drafted Comben in the last couple of years. Its not like we've ignored the spine, the recruiters just haven't done the best job of building it. Maybe they did the best with the resources they had available, maybe not. But the head guys are all gone right now.

Somewhat disagree with this.
The issue we've had is that we havent replaced the KP players who have departed (besides Combden who is always injured and at this stage only a spec. player, Walker who is at best a depth player & McGuiness another spec player). I hope all make it but they dont go any where near close to replacing the quality of KPP who have departed the NMFC in the past 5 or so years.
We lost:
Aaron Black (Traded -> Pushed)
Mason Wood (Delisted arguably shouldn't have played as a KPF - )
Hansen (Retired -> Pushed)
Durdin (Delisted)
Tarrant (Traded -> Wanted Out)
Petrie (Retired -> Pushed)
Brown (Traded -> Pushed)
Waite (Retired)
Maj (Delisted) - *Updated

The above were all best 25, yet we did nothing to replace with true KPP, which ultimately left us in the current mess that find ourselves in now (KPP wise).

The list management is and has been a disgraceful shambles for quite some time.

 

[ferball]

Somewhat disagree with this.
The issue we've had is that we havent replaced the KP players who have departed (besides Combden who is always injured and at this stage only a spec. player, Walker who is at best a depth player & McGuiness another spec player). I hope all make it but they dont go any where near close to replacing the quality of KPP who have departed the NMFC in the past 5 or so years.
We lost:
Aaron Black (Traded -> Pushed)
Mason Wood (Delisted arguably shouldn't have played as a KPF - )
Hansen (Retired -> Pushed)
Durdin (Delisted)
Tarrant (Traded -> Wanted Out)
Petrie (Retired -> Pushed)
Brown (Traded -> Pushed)
Waite (Retired)

The above were all best 25, yet we did nothing to replace with true KPP, which ultimately left us in the current mess that find ourselves in now (KPP wise).

The list management is and has been a disgraceful shambles for quite some time.

You don't have Maj in there.

At the end of 2018 we had a spine and Larkey, McKay and Durdin all playing VFL or just getting games in the seniors. So players like Black, Hansen and Petrie don't count. Petrie was done, Black ruined and Hansen had 30 games in his last three seasons.

And fair enough we didn't replace KPPs but we didn't have a young midfield either. So ... we had lots of issues and frankly if you don't win the ball KPPs are useless. 2020 is the perfect example why. Tarrant and Mckay were both playing good football and we looked worse than we do now.

Since the end of 2016 we've lost Harvey, Wells, Swallow, Higgins, NDS and effectively Ziebell and Cunnington (at this point) out of the midfield. In 2020 our best two mids were players we'd got in as forwards - Jed and Jy. So its not as simple as you make out. Our recruiting team has been filling holes everywhere. Meanwhile the most successful teams in the comp (freo, Bris and Melb) have all traded in KPPs who are a significant part of their side.

We are early days into a complete rebuild and we have list issues.

What else did you expect?

 

[Duck the GOAT]

You don't have Maj in there.

At the end of 2018 we had a spine and Larkey, McKay and Durdin all playing VFL or just getting games in the seniors. So players like Black, Hansen and Petrie don't count. Petrie was done, Black ruined and Hansen had 30 games in his last three seasons.

And fair enough we didn't replace KPPs but we didn't have a young midfield either. So ... we had lots of issues and frankly if you don't win the ball KPPs are useless. 2020 is the perfect example why. Tarrant and Mckay were both playing good football and we looked worse than we do now.

Since the end of 2016 we've lost Harvey, Wells, Swallow, Higgins, NDS and effectively Ziebell and Cunnington (at this point) out of the midfield. In 2020 our best two mids were players we'd got in as forwards - Jed and Jy. So its not as simple as you make out. Our recruiting team has been filling holes everywhere. Meanwhile the most successful teams in the comp (freo, Bris and Melb) have all traded in KPPs who are a significant part of their side.

We are early days into a complete rebuild and we have list issues.

What else did you expect?

Agree the list turnover has been nothing short of significant.

My question is, the last two drafts, we took 12 picks - 10 national, 2 rookie.
2020 - Phillips, Powell, Laz, Spicer, Ford, Walker, Menadue
2021 - JHF, Goater, Curtis, Bergman, Archer

List management had zero concern with, at the very least, building some depth in key positions. Why? I understand the strategy was to build from the midfield out. But surely it didn't need to be so literal?

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

You don't have Maj in there.

At the end of 2018 we had a spine and Larkey, McKay and Durdin all playing VFL or just getting games in the seniors. So players like Black, Hansen and Petrie don't count. Petrie was done, Black ruined and Hansen had 30 games in his last three seasons.

And fair enough we didn't replace KPPs but we didn't have a young midfield either. So ... we had lots of issues and frankly if you don't win the ball KPPs are useless. 2020 is the perfect example why. Tarrant and Mckay were both playing good football and we looked worse than we do now.

Since the end of 2016 we've lost Harvey, Wells, Swallow, Higgins, NDS and effectively Ziebell and Cunnington (at this point) out of the midfield. In 2020 our best two mids were players we'd got in as forwards - Jed and Jy. So its not as simple as you make out. Our recruiting team has been filling holes everywhere. Meanwhile the most successful teams in the comp (freo, Bris and Melb) have all traded in KPPs who are a significant part of their side.

We are early days into a complete rebuild and we have list issues.

What else did you expect?

We will not be prepared to or able to trade in solid-good (c+ to b+) kpp types. Our club just is not desirable at present or in the near future.

Locking away JHF on a decent contract will go a long way to changing this, but even this is not guaranteed.

Mids vs KPP is kind of chicken and the egg. Yes, recently we have been pantsed in the midfield, but for the first half dozen rounds or so, our mids were doing ok. It was our inability to properly guard opposition forwards and have anyone to kick to across HF which has meant we have been incapable of putting scoreboard pressure on. So much of the opposition scoring comes off the back of a North forward entry and turn over across HF and then an opposition score.

Midfield-heavy great teams like WCE of 2005-2006 and the Geelong Dynasty still made sure that they had decent KPF to kick to and defenders to lock down the back-half. While injury has completely effed up any consistency down back, 60%of the posters on BF could see the cupboards were bare 2020-22 in terms of actual KPF/Ds, and most of us don’t have a clue what we are talking about.

 

[ferball]

We will not be prepared to or able to trade in solid-good (c+ to b+) kpp types. Our club just is not desirable at present or in the near future.

Locking away JHF on a decent contract will go a long way to changing this, but even this is not guaranteed.

Mids vs KPP is kind of chicken and the egg. Yes, recently we have been pantsed in the midfield, but for the first half dozen rounds or so, our mids were doing ok. It was our inability to properly guard opposition forwards and have anyone to kick to across HF which has meant we have been incapable of putting scoreboard pressure on. So much of the opposition scoring comes off the back of a North forward entry and turn over across HF and then an opposition score.

Midfield-heavy great teams like WCE of 2005-2006 and the Geelong Dynasty still made sure that they had decent KPF to kick to and defenders to lock down the back-half. While injury has completely effed up any consistency down back, 60%of the posters on BF could see the cupboards were bare 2020-22 in terms of actual KPF/Ds, and most of us don’t have a clue what we are talking about.

You're talking about teams at their peak tho. We aren't there yet.

 

[ferball]

Agree the list turnover has been nothing short of significant.

My question is, the last two drafts, we took 12 picks - 10 national, 2 rookie.
2020 - Phillips, Powell, Laz, Spicer, Ford, Walker, Menadue
2021 - JHF, Goater, Curtis, Bergman, Archer

List management had zero concern with, at the very least, building some depth in key positions. Why? I understand the strategy was to build from the midfield out. But surely it didn't need to be so literal?

Phillips, Powell, Laz, Spicer, JHF, Goater, maybe Ford as mids tho at least a couple should be able to play forward. (But we also took Edwards and Dawson this year in the MSD.) They won't all make it tho.

Maybe those names you mentioned are the reason Luff was demoted last year.

 

[CarnTheKANGAS]

You don't have Maj in there.

At the end of 2018 we had a spine and Larkey, McKay and Durdin all playing VFL or just getting games in the seniors. So players like Black, Hansen and Petrie don't count. Petrie was done, Black ruined and Hansen had 30 games in his last three seasons.

And fair enough we didn't replace KPPs but we didn't have a young midfield either. So ... we had lots of issues and frankly if you don't win the ball KPPs are useless. 2020 is the perfect example why. Tarrant and Mckay were both playing good football and we looked worse than we do now.

Since the end of 2016 we've lost Harvey, Wells, Swallow, Higgins, NDS and effectively Ziebell and Cunnington (at this point) out of the midfield. In 2020 our best two mids were players we'd got in as forwards - Jed and Jy. So its not as simple as you make out. Our recruiting team has been filling holes everywhere. Meanwhile the most successful teams in the comp (freo, Bris and Melb) have all traded in KPPs who are a significant part of their side.

We are early days into a complete rebuild and we have list issues.

What else did you expect?

I'd expect when we have mass outgoings of KPP that they are replaced with incumbents (expectation at nearly one out -> one in)
I'd also expect that when an opportunity such as the mid season draft presents itself - that we would address these gaps here.

This provided an opportunity to top up with either young the best of the 19/20 years olds) or mature players (which we clearly have a significant gap in our list -- refer to the above outgoings not being replaced as the reason why) then why would we not bring in KPP players here?
Crikey, from all reports the reason we didnt utilize our 2nd MSD pick was because the other player we were interested in (Zane Williams - a 75kg forward pocket) was already taken.

Blind Freddy can see the obvious gaps in our list.

I fear with the muppets in charge things wont turn around any time soon.

 

[ferball]

Yes obviously we can go round on circles with this discussion till the cows come home.

In 2020 we cut the list savagely and decided to fully rebuild the on field and off field elements of our footy side. The on field side we decided to build from a functioning midfield first and then fill in the gaps. WE're 18 months into that process.

I get you don't like it but there's nothing you can do about that.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

You're talking about teams at their peak tho. We aren't there yet.

In terms of times of development to get players playing consistent levels of football from least amount of time to most, would you say this order makes sense?:

Flankers>Wings>Inside Mids>KPP/Rucks

If so, we have aimed to develop our team around a nucleus of inside mids and rucks = . The problem is that while players develop, we still haven’t brought in any depth with KPP or enough talent with wings and flankers.

I would have thought getting the spine sorted would be the priority.

Now, we have to pay through the nose to get quality KPPs (assuming that they will actually want to join) or go through the draft and wait another 5 years for those players to develop.

It just seems a weird way to do it. I know Souup has said he loves the way North have drafted recently, and as they and others would know much, much more than me, I will continue to trust the process.

 

[Roos1991]

Yep no pressure for the next coach

They will look like a genius in comparison to nobles

What bullshit. There was meant to be no pressure for Nobes given how far back we were. Half way into his second season reactionaries are calling for his head. Hope the club isn't as short sighted as many on this forum are, any prospective coach with any self respect would walk into such a fickle bullshit environment.

 

[The Nostradamus]

What bullshit. There was meant to be no pressure for Nobes given how far back we were. Half way into his second season reactionaries are calling for his head. Hope the club isn't as short sighted as many on this forum are, any prospective coach with any self respect would walk into such a fickle bullshit environment.

nobles has no idea and no gameplan

wont be hard to look decent in comparison plus another year into our kids will help

 

[DunderHead]

In terms of times of development to get players playing consistent levels of football from least amount of time to most, would you say this order makes sense?:

Flankers>Wings>Inside Mids>KPP/Rucks

If so, we have aimed to develop our team around a nucleus of inside mids and rucks = . The problem is that while players develop, we still haven’t brought in any depth with KPP or enough talent with wings and flankers.

I would have thought getting the spine sorted would be the priority.

Now, we have to pay through the nose to get quality KPPs (assuming that they will actually want to join) or go through the draft and wait another 5 years for those players to develop.

It just seems a weird way to do it. I know Souup has said he loves the way North have drafted recently, and as they and others would know much, much more than me, I will continue to trust the process.

We look to be two drafts away from having a decent list balance. We need to add two Key Position players via national draft this year and probably add another via rookie draft.

 

[Jumping Roo]

Interestingly, the list of clubs that may be looking for a new coach this year are GWS, Port Adelaide, West Coast and North Melbourne. It is quite possible if it is Clarko's preference to stay in Melbourne that North would be his only choice.....

Timing is everything.....

 

[north_lad]

What bullshit. There was meant to be no pressure for Nobes given how far back we were. Half way into his second season reactionaries are calling for his head. Hope the club isn't as short sighted as many on this forum are, any prospective coach with any self respect would walk into such a fickle bullshit environment.

don't bother, he's a parrot

 

[Cyber_punk]

Is it possible to sign a new coach at halftime of a game?