Answers to several threads.....

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Number 24

Number 24

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There is a supberb post on Mighty Hawk reporting on a talk Chris Pelchin gave to Hawthorn supporters in Canberra last night.

Congratulations to the posters who provided this insight.

Their reports answers many posts on this board such as

Roughead not being traded
We need backmen
tom Murphy
Rate our depth
Xavier Ellis
Taylor for Meeson
 
There's the uncool kid in class that doesn't get to hang out at the peach pit.

He doesn't get invited to parties. He doesn't get a new pair of KT26's for Christmas.

Where is Mighty Hawk...?

...the uncool kid wants to know.
 
Number 24 said:
There is a supberb post on Mighty Hawk reporting on a talk Chris Pelchin gave to Hawthorn supporters in Canberra last night.

Congratulations to the posters who provided this insight.

Their reports answers many posts on this board such as

Roughead not being traded
We need backmen
tom Murphy
Rate our depth
Xavier Ellis
Taylor for Meeson
Click to expand...

Link to thread, or atleast what part of the forum it is in??
 

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I'm happy to repost my stuff here. I couldn't get access to BigFooty because I couldn't remember my password. Still worth going to Mightyhawk though as others that attended had additional info.

Good night - highly recommend it if you are up this way next year.

Evening started with Ian Robson welcoming everyone. Main points from him are that club is targetting 35000 members in 08 and 50 by 2011,. We have a very strong balance sheet and promoted the value of the Tasmania relationship.

Chris Pelchin then got up and spoke for about an hour and a quarter and kept the masses (about 50 people) spellbound.

Introduced us to the fact that when he worked at the club from 88-95 when there was a great culture. That had disappeared when he returned in 2005. He started with a few simple stats showing that we are the youngest list. Matches played we average 48.1 (total games of 2116) compared to Fremantle 76.5 (tg 3364). Geelong had an average of 55.8 (tg 2456). He noted that none of the top 5 (Freo, Mel, St k, WB and Ess) played finals.

He then proceeded to explain how the evaluate. Every AFL player on every list are rated as follows:
1 - Elite player (outstanding player of the AFL)
2 - Highly talented (very good player)
3 - Core player (likely to play mostly senior footy)
4 A - improving player but not yet at AFL standard eg a well performed 1st yr draftee that hasn't played senior footy
4 B - A below std player or declining or aging player.
5 - developing player eg rookie

in 2005 he rated our list as only having 2*1's and 4*2's. He thought we had 8 in the 4B category.

In 2007 mid season he rated our list as follows:
1 2 3 4A 4B 5
3 5 20 4 2 6

He rated Geelong's list as follows
5 6 20 4 1 3

His average talent ratings were as follows (lower the number the better):
Hawks 3.12 vs Geelong 2.87 vs WCE 2.97 vs Carlton 3.38

He rated the Saints to have the most talented list in 05 and 06 and said their window is now closed. He then rated the premiership teams from 05 and 06. He rated them as follows:
1 2 3 4A 4B 5
WCE 06 4 7 10 0 1 0
Syd 05 2 8 12 0 0 0

The averages of premiers since he has been keeping records were as follows:
4.6 8.2 8.4 .6 .2 0

He then also stated that he thought the Bris 01-04 lists were better than Geelongs but they were able to obtain this through players sacrificing the money for the team.

He then went on and spoke about how poor our kicking efficiency was when he arrived in 05 (76.2% rank 16th). This combined with our low average height and weight meant we needed a list overhaul. In 2007 we were in the top 4.

Our drafting and trading has been to address the kicking efficiency and size of the squad.

Our other issue was our TPP in 05. We were paying 24.9% of our salary to players ranked 4 compared to Brisbane who were paying 8.1% to their 4's. Our average player payment to the 4's was 137000 compared to Brisbanes 72000. In 2007 our 4's are receiving only 5.9% of TPP.

In 2005, he rated only 10 players (Roughead, Ladson, Brown, Mitchell, Franklin, Williams, Croad, Hodge and Lewis - I missed one sorry) as being capable of playing in our next premiership. This list has obviously changed since then.

Key targets of our recruiting where then discussed with a view to fielding a side on mainly 1's, 2's and 3's with the spine being mainly 1's. He has specifically targetted the deficiencies that he identified in 05 and stressed that we are not finished yet. I did get the impression though that this year we will be more selective in targetting specific positions rather than the best available. Did not mention which type we still required (eg crumber).

He concluded by saying that all players recruited must fit the following criteria which brought us back to the culture issue which he started off with.

1 Character - intelligence, leadership, and a team first attitude;
2 kicking - must be rated at least good or better; and
3 competitiveness - must have a high level of determination.

Not as much opportunity for questions this year but I will summarise as best as possible.

Q Injury to Willo? A similar injury to Rob Campbell and rehab is going well (avoided answering when he will be available)

Q Progress of the 4A type players ( Beaus, Collins, etc) A. Muston will debut in first month, Bailey and Renouf will debut in 2008. Expect about 5 debuts next year. Said that Renouf and Bailey will replace Campbell and Taylor within 2 years. Highly rates Bailey in particular and along with Ellis will be a future leader. Mentioned club will have 5 ruckman - does this mean McEntee will be elevated? Also very excited about Morton and expected him to debut next year.

Most interesting was Pelchin about Dowler and he said he had a long way to go and was probably a bit immature. He needs to develop agression and Thorp would go past him. "If Dowler had 10% of Thorp's agression and arrogance he would be a good player". Mentioned that Ellis was a walk up to take Smith's spot at half back.


Q Whats happening with rookie list A. being reviewed at the moment no decisions made yet.

Q how many picks? 5 at least. 2 more to be delisted maybe 3. Doesn't expect these players to be of any trade value. Maybe expect an announcement sooner than later on these.

Q how does club deal with interstate players and go home factor? We target what appeals to them. Said at this time that Bailey has purchased a house in Melb and is not going anywhere.

Q top 5 picks

1 Kruezer
2 Cotchin
3 Morton
4 McEvoy
5 Myers

Q Box Hill? Will retain alliance but coach will now be paid by Hawks. Also appointing a Pelchin type person to control recruiting for Box Hill listed players to fill the deficiencies.

Other random stuff:

Gilham is the No 1 rated fullback for kicking efficiency.

Clinton Young has a heap of improvement in him and will be better next year.

Joel Selwood was never going to be picked by us. Knee problem is similar to Coghlans at Richmond. Deemed to be to big of a risk.

Hawks will try to address the free kicks against problem over the summer without compromising the agression.

Collingwood, WCE, Geel and hawks to be main contenders over next few years with our key window between 2010-2013.

Sorry there wasn't the opportunity to ask as many questions as last year. More people in attendence and Pelchin's great overview took most of the time.


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Great post HH:thumbsu:

The post by DeathCab is also worth a read if you can get on Mighty hawk.

The thread is called Canberra Draft Camp
 
brookers#5 said:
terrific but i'm surprised his saying things like Campbell & taylor will both be out of the side in 2009.
Click to expand...

I thought that was a bit strange too, but I believe him. Bailey, Renouf and Mcentee will be freaks! I can't wait to see what Big M can do! He jumps like the cow that jumped over the moon!

That was my favourite post ever! Awesome job! :thumbsu:
 

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Intersting too that they are planning for 5 debutants next year.

If that is the case, quite a few of the team that played in our last game this year may not be getting as much game time next year. Not implying they will all debut in the one round, but the pressure for spots is going to be fierce.

I would say that would also signal the end for players like Timmy C who dont have the kicking skills.
 
Thanks guys, but we were just messengers really, please go and do yourselves a favour and read the entire thread as others went and had the opportunity to chat individually with Pelchin, Robson, Wright or Greg Boxall.

All I can say is that I was really impressed by Chris. I am in the corporate world and haven't seen as many detailed presentations as what he gave. He didn't even need notes. He just knew his stuff so well. If we fail to get a flag in the 5-7 years it certainly won't be his fault.
 
Yes thanks HigginsHawk for making this excellent post available on Bigfooty and available to a wider Hawthorn supporter audience than would have been the case if it remained only on MightyHawk.

I did not like to simply pinch your work and post it here. You own the cpopyright after all.
 
That was great to hear.

Lets be honest I have always said Tails and Campbell arent good rucks, they are a hard working duo. Ruckmen these days have to get around the park and be efficent with their disposal which these blokes arent. Campbell was good in 06, was slack in 07. Tails has to many brain fades and freaks out when he has the footy.

Bails and Renouf are the future, just didnt think Pelchen would be that open to say that though.
 
Canberra Hawks draft camp function.
2.10.07


In attendance and sincerest thanks to:

Ian Robson
Chris Pelchen
Graham Wright
Greg Boxall

Introduction by Robson, followed by a very detailed presentation by Pelchen. Questions answered by all four guys afterwards. Pelchen spent a lot of time going through our premiership model, which I might cover in another post if some of my fellow Canberrans haven’t done so.

2007 draft
Not much talk on the specifics of this years draft. Boxall gave his ‘top 5’, but wouldn’t go any further than that so as not to give away any of our thinking.

1. Matt Kreeuzer.
2. Trent Cotchin
3. Cale Morton (Jarryd and Mitch’s bro)
4. Ben McEnvoy
5. David Myers

Boxall indicated that number 5 could be any of a large number of players, which kind of indicates they rate the other 4 as standouts. IIRC, these are the same top 4 to appear in the Herald Sun by Sheahan (?) a month or so ago. Last year Boxall told us Gibbs, Gumby, Hansen and Leeuwy were the top four standouts and this is how they were drafted.

Pelchen said they would love to upgrade pick 12 but it would be extremely unlikely. Pelchen also said the notion of ‘best available’ was ‘hogwash’ and that we will be drafting to fill specific positions in our premiership model (there are three that have not been filled yet apparently).

We are not turned off one bit when it comes to drafting interstate players.

Player turnover
‘We will be moving on 5 players from the list this year’ – Pelchen. Three are gone (Vanders, Smith and Dicko), which leaves two more to get the chop. Pelchen said these players had no trade value and indicated the decision had already been made. I am almost certain these will be Thurgood and Little. Pelchen said that Smith had ‘been retired’ with the intention of Xavier Ellis filling his spot full time next year.

Injuries
In reference to talk of degenerative knee conditions (talking Joel Selwood and Mark Coghlan), the panel was asked about Willo. Ian Robson reported that Willo’s knee was similar to Robbie Campbell’s and that it had rehabilitated really well. Likewise for injuries to Max Bailey and Tim Clarke – these guys are looking good.

Ruckman
Pelchen said that we will have 5 ruckman on the list, with the 3 younger ones extremely exciting. To me this confirms that McEntee will be elevated. Also said that he expected Bailey and Renouf to overtake Campbell and Taylor within the next two years. Said the ruck was the only position on the field where the Hawks were prepared to compromise and draft a bloke who was not a good kick of the footy.

Leadership.
Pelchen was very adamant that Max Bailey and particularly Xavier Ellis were future leaders of our club, with Xavier a potential captain. Could not emphasise enough the strength of character of these two blokes. Afterwards, Pelchen also spoke to me about Tom Murphy. He said that Tom will be given a contract for next year and was considered an important part of the side for the next few years, not because of his football ability, but because of his character (which he described as in ‘the absolute top 10%’ in this regard). Tom is much more mature than his 21 years of age and is a vital part of our group in the next few years, given the void left by our three retired veterans. As others have, Pelchen also rated Richie as just a league above the rest when it comes to leadership.

Trading away players
I asked Chris whether the Hawks would consider trading away blokes who were in the ‘inner sanctum’ of the playing group – blokes who are in our best side, are liked by their team mates and want to be at the club. In short, Chris implied ‘Yes, but never lightly’. Tom Murphy was the example he used here. Basically said, ‘outstanding bloke, but kicking is not yet up to scratch and if it doesn’t improve then he would be a candidate for trading in 3-4 years time.’ Indirectly, this indicated that Pelchen seemed to rate Murphy (or his character at least) more highly than we might imagine. I was probably more interested to see if we would consider blokes like Boyle, Roughy or Dowler (given our abundance of tall forwards). I was left with the impression that none of our guys would be traded away prematurely and that blokes like Roughy who are perceived as integral to our success would demand so much value that no club would come close to considering offering us a suitable trade any way. I don’t know where this leaves perhaps Boyle and Dowler, except that my impression was we wouldn’t be offloading them until we’d given them a chance to fulfil their potential.

Debutants for 2008
Pelchen predicted we would see five debutants next year, including Muston in the first month of the season (assuming an injury-free pre-season). Spoke very highly of Jarryd Morton (‘picked up as a bargain’), indicating he was a likely debutant next year. I can’t imagine there are too many more blokes we could expect to debut next year (Renouf maybe), so perhaps Chris was also referring to more regular game time to guys like Thorp, Dowler, Moss, Tuck etc.

Non-negotiables at the draft table
1. On field intelligence, leadership values, putting the team 1st.
2. Good to elite kick of the football (for the position they play, ruckman an exception).
3. Competitiveness/desire to beat opponent and win.

Psychology testing and Beau Dowler
Pelchen spoke about the huge amount of psychological evaluation they do on players before drafting. The Hawks will not draft a player unless they have interviewed them one on one (with the exception of a kid who lives in a really remote area). They also interview at least one of the parents, principals, teachers, teammates and opposition players to get an idea of their character. Went on to say that Beau Dowler has turned out to be extremely introverted (which is severely affecting his football), but that they didn’t pick this up in their pre-draft analysis. Pelchen thought this was due to Beau coming across as confident when surrounded by other young draftees at the AIS, but was extremely shy when put in a football club of grown men.

Forwards vs backs
Very huge wraps from Pelchen on Mitch Thorp. Said they specifically drafted him with the hope that his intensity would influence Buddy. Predicted that these two would become a sensational combination who would complement each other perfectly. Also very nice wraps for Jarryd Morton. Pelchen said he expected Morton and Thorp to overtake Dowler next season.

I asked whether any of our forwards would be turned in to backs and Pelchen said ‘Yes, Roughead’. Apparently they played Roughy up forward all year because he was losing confidence down back and found it up forward. Pelchen said he expected Roughy to play 50/50 forward and back next year and then predominantly back in 2009. He did note however, that he may believe this more strongly than Clarko does (although the two work very closely).

Box Hill
Next year we will have a Box Hill coach who is a full time Hawthorn employee, which will foster better cooperation with Box Hill.

Joel Selwood
Pelchen said the guy looked the goods now but he still thought his career would be cut short by a debilitating knee injury, which is similar to that suffered by Mark Coghlan from the Tigers. Pelchen said that when they he was at the Power they stayed away from the highly talented Coghlan because of his knee condition, and that decision has been vindicated. Pelchen was also 100% convinced that last year the Cats would have drafted any of the top 6 ahead of Selwood if they’d had the choice.

Chris Judd
They heard the same rumours. Possibly pick 3, Josh Kennedy and pick 20. Pelchen said that if he was WC he would push for more. Carlton have some power though – Richmond cannot afford to fit Judd under the salary cap, so Carlton have first dibs at Judd in the pre-season draft if it comes to that.

Premiership model
When Pelchen joined us in early 2005, he looked at our best 22 and believed that 12 of these would not be there for our next premiership.
Would be there – Mitchell, Hodge, Roughie, Buddy, Lewis.
Possibles – Brown, Laddo, Williams, Croad, Bateman.
This left 12 spots to fill
Ruckman – 2
Utilities – 4
Midfield – 3
Key forwards – 2
Key defenders – 1
Pelchen reckons we still have 3 left to fill, but wouldn’t say which ones.

Alright, bed for me, but may write a bit more tomorrow.

DC
 
Another great report.

I found it good to hear how highly rated Morton is. I didnt hear much for him report wise but this words have given me some confidence on this kid.

Its a shame about Dowler it seems he is falling further and further behind, and the club will have to eventually decide if they will continue to persist with him or not.

I hate Roughead going to defence. :(

Keep him up forward on the last line, let Thorp and Buddy lead up ground.
 
Roughie said:
Another great report.

I found it good to hear how highly rated Morton is. I didnt hear much for him report wise but this words have given me some confidence on this kid.

Its a shame about Dowler it seems he is falling further and further behind, and the club will have to eventually decide if they will continue to persist with him or not.

I hate Roughead going to defence. :(

Keep him up forward on the last line, let Thorp and Buddy lead up ground.
Click to expand...
Like Roughy Forward too lets hope Dowler can have a huge pre season and have a impact next year :thumbsu:
 

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