Anthony Albanese - How long? -2-

[Saint]

So let's just rile up the anti Semites even more. Withdrawing support for Israel totally will vindicate that movement and won't stop all the targetting of anything associated with Israel. Reality is there's alot of people out there that don't think it's a genocide. Instead of inflaming tensions we need to bring a balance to the debate. This is actually an issue to have an each way opinion on it whether we like it or not. There's a reason it's not in the news cycle that regularly because it's the position newscorp are happy with and there not drilling the government. And before anyone says the media shouldn't dictate decision making it absolutely does whether we agree with it or not. That's the world we live in.

Israeli media has far more condemnation for Israel than Newscorp does. If more Australians read Israeli news sites (even the conservative ones) support for this genocide would evaporate in a second. All the links I post here are from Israeli news sites.

180,000 dead civilians is well beyond the point of not wanting to "inflame tensions". The tensions have been inflamed, the only question is if we want to help put out the flames, or provide fuel for the fire, which we're doing now.

Newscorp dont' want it in the news here because it's day after day of dead innocent children and an Israeli Govt committing war crimes and refusing peace negotiations. It doesn't suit Newscorp's position of unquestioning support for Israeli colonisation.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

dude if your argument for supporting genocide is it will vindicate antisemites then you're taking a zionist position on it

that's what they do, they conflate criticism of Israel with antisemitism, its no the same thing and supporting the ongoing massacre of civilians so some chuds can't say see I was right is a really dogshit reason to do something

I don't support genocide Gralin I'm simply trying to put a counter balance argument to the debate. I'm pro Palestine. The issue I have with your position is that it's black and white and it's really not as simple as that as much as you want to believe it so. Same goes with the pro Israel position.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't support genocide Gralin I'm simply trying to put a counter balance argument to the debate. I'm pro Palestine. The issue I have with your position is that it's black and white and it's really not as simple as that as much as you want to believe it so. Same goes with the pro Israel position.

If you could evacuate all the people and remove that whole piece of land i'd be happy.
Jordan and Syria could have some nice beaches.

 

[kickazz]

Israeli media has far more condemnation for Israel than Newscorp does. If more Australians read Israeli news sites (even the conservative ones) support for this genocide would evaporate in a second. All the links I post here are from Israeli news sites.

This is a good point.

A lot of reasonable folk take a position of being anti-Israel, and citing that that does not equate to being anti-Jew.

A better position is being pro Israel (by and large a good country) but anti Likud. It's the folks running the show there that are the problem, not the country itself.

 

[peetoo]

If you could evacuate all the people and remove that whole piece of land i'd be happy.
Jordan and Syria could have some nice beaches.

Isn’t that how the current (the last 70 odd years not biblical scale) situation came about? Drawing lines on maps and moving people?

 

[peetoo]

This is a good point.

A lot of reasonable folk take a position of being anti-Israel, and citing that that does not equate to being anti-Jew.

A better position is being pro Israel (by and large a good country) but anti Likud. It's the folks running the show there that are the problem, not the country itself.

Exactly and not a lot of time for people in australia using it for politics here. Israel’s anti multicultural stance is contra to Australia’s multicultural identity

 

[Saint]

Isn’t that how the current (the last 70 odd years not biblical scale) situation came about? Drawing lines on maps and moving people?

Plus both sides want all of it and will agree to nothing more. The last Israeli PM who agreed to some partition was assassinated with the encouragement of Netanyahu.

That's why when Israel says it needs to be left up to the two parties, they know full well they will never agree to partition and are stealing more land piece by piece.

That's why the only solution is an outside one. The Australian position of a "negotiated peace between the two parties" is nonsense. Only Israel, the US and Australia are stupid enough to think people will believe them when they say this might happen.

 

[Carn The Berries]

It's absolute political suicide if the ALP take the Greens position on this issue. Don't understand why people can't see this. There was an interesting debate in the senate last week when Birmingham in all his confected outrage was implying that the government wasn't doing enough for Israel and their "right" to defend themselves. You have two sides to this debate which are the total opposite. Wong actually made some reasonable counter argument points relating to having such a definitive position on such a complex issue. She than was accused of supporting terrorists. This is the sort of hyperbole that is going on with all this ATM. The ALP position is a sensible position. It's not a reality to have Gralin's view on this issue for example being implemented out of principle. There's just way too much collateral that goes with it not that I don't agree with what he is saying.

I'm not sure employing someone with the specific purposes of "curbing" anti-semitism is overly productive either...

 

[The Punter]

Plus both sides want all of it and will agree to nothing more. The last Israeli PM who agreed to some partition was assassinated with the encouragement of Netanyahu.

That's why when Israel says it needs to be left up to the two parties, they know full well they will never agree to partition and are stealing more land piece by piece.

That's why the only solution is an outside one. The Australian position of a "negotiated peace between the two parties" is nonsense. Only Israel, the US and Australia are stupid enough to think people will believe them when they say this might happen.

So basically every decision that was made for this part of the world before WW2. Excellent.

 

[Saint]

So basically every decision that was made for this part of the world before WW2. Excellent.

Sorry, I should have elaborated. The outside force the two to come to a lasting agreement now, and agreed borders.

Israel wants everyone else to butt-out while they make the reality on the ground even more one-sided by levelling Gaza and creating enclaves throughout the West Bank.

Both sides will need to agree to it, but it will need to be enforced from the outside. Oslo was a disaster because both sides broke the agreement as soon as they killed the politicians who signed it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Isn’t that how the current (the last 70 odd years not biblical scale) situation came about? Drawing lines on maps and moving people?

Yep it went bad.
Rub it out and start again. At least there would be no bullshit holy crap and entitlement to wherever they went.

 

[The Punter]

Sorry, I should have elaborated. The outside force the two to come to a lasting agreement now, and agreed borders.

Israel wants everyone else to butt-out while they make the reality on the ground even more one-sided by levelling Gaza and creating enclaves throughout the West Bank.

Both sides will need to agree to it, but it will need to be enforced from the outside. Oslo was a disaster because both sides broke the agreement as soon as they killed the politicians who signed it.

There would need to be some way of forcing both sides to adhere to the terms of the agreement. So there would need to be a functional Palestinian Government who were able to enforce law and order over the entire area they are responsible for. Good luck with that.

Yep it went bad.
Rub it out and start again. At least there would be no bullshit holy crap and entitlement to wherever they went.

Both groups believe God gave them their land. Good luck with that too.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

There would need to be some way of forcing both sides to adhere to the terms of the agreement. So there would need to be a functional Palestinian Government who were able to enforce law and order over the entire area they are responsible for. Good luck with that.


Both groups believe God gave them their land. Good luck with that too.

Which is why i made the original comment.

"If you could evacuate all the people and remove that whole piece of land i'd be happy.
Jordan and Syria could have some nice beaches."

Impossible unfortunately.

 

[The Punter]

Which is why i made the original comment.

"If you could evacuate all the people and remove that whole piece of land i'd be happy.
Jordan and Syria could have some nice beaches."

Impossible unfortunately.

Here's where the rubber hits the road though: it's humanity's job to fix it, and to not stop until there is a lasting piece.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Here's where the rubber hits the road though: it's humanity's job to fix it, and to not stop until there is a lasting piece.

If it was administered by China , they'd probably live together in peace.
Or else.

 

[The Punter]

If it was administered by China , they'd probably live together in peace.
Or else.

Peace is not the mere absence of war.

Also, is this an endorsement of the way China does things?

In the end, if not enough people want a peaceful solution, then it will not happen.

 

[Saint]

There would need to be some way of forcing both sides to adhere to the terms of the agreement. So there would need to be a functional Palestinian Government who were able to enforce law and order over the entire area they are responsible for. Good luck with that.


Both groups believe God gave them their land. Good luck with that too.

You missed the Israeli Commander of the West Bank who retired yesterday and admitted the Israeli terrorists, under direction of their leadership were committing crimes that the IDF had failed to stop.

This is why the international community as a whole needs to command both sides. And that means the EU and US cutting off Israel economically and politically as well as the PA (as they have done with Hamas) until they all agree to control their own terrorists.

It would require peacekeepers because neither the IDF nor PA leaders can be trusted, all of those leaders admit they're powerless.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Peace is not the mere absence of war.

Also, is this an endorsement of the way China does things?

In the end, if not enough people want a peaceful solution, then it will not happen.

WE can want it .
But they are not going to play friendly neighbours.

Somehow the elements who don't want to live peacefully need to be controlled.

Here you go, send a mum in.

Helping your child stop bullying: A guide for parents

A guide to help parents recognise the signs that their child might be bullying others, and provide ways to constructively address the behaviour

aifs.gov.au

 

[The Punter]

You missed the Israeli Commander of the West Bank who retired yesterday and admitted the Israeli terrorists, under direction of their leadership were committing crimes that the IDF had failed to stop.

This is why the international community as a whole needs to command both sides. And that means the EU and US cutting off Israel economically and politically as well as the PA (as they have done with Hamas) until they all agree to control their own terrorists.

It would require peacekeepers because neither the IDF nor PA leaders can be trusted, all of those leaders admit they're powerless.

The people who fund and supply Hamas:

• are not about to stop
• aren't mentioned in your post

No one really holds Hamas to any standard. The West doesn't matter because they aren't the ones funding them.

Anyway, I apologise for my part in derailing the thread - I'll leave this to others now.

 

[Saint]

The people who fund and supply Hamas:

• are not about to stop
• aren't mentioned in your post

No one really holds Hamas to any standard. The West doesn't matter because they aren't the ones funding them.

Anyway, I apologise for my part in derailing the thread - I'll leave this to others now.

You're right, that should be part of it. Noting that it has been proven that Netanyahu made sure funding to Hamas was not cut off in the past so that they could continue to challenge the PA.

 

[Gralin]

I don't support genocide Gralin I'm simply trying to put a counter balance argument to the debate. I'm pro Palestine. The issue I have with your position is that it's black and white and it's really not as simple as that as much as you want to believe it so. Same goes with the pro Israel position.

Being pro Palestine doesn't involve coming up with excuses for why the government isn't pro Palestine

Its a pretty black and white issue, genocide is bad, excuses for why states are not doing anything about it are just that

they're either actively supporting it or complicit in other ways

our government has been actively supporting it, and its got nothing to do with Antisemitism

 

[Carn The Berries]

I don't support genocide Gralin I'm simply trying to put a counter balance argument to the debate. I'm pro Palestine. The issue I have with your position is that it's black and white and it's really not as simple as that as much as you want to believe it so. Same goes with the pro Israel position.

There's balance, and then there's kicking a senator out of your party for daring to stand up to this shizen, then appointing someone to head up the government's "crusade on anti-semitism". Not to mention having to be dragged kicking and screaming to a position where we don't abstain from UN votes about calling for ceasefires.

Doesn't seem overly balanced does it...

 

[Not Important]

albo's position is not the one he had earlier or as an oppo member. just another example of him bending to power, threat and influence. wheres the anti-islamophobia envoy”

this



and this



real compassionate leadership, so lacking in oz. you don’t expect it from the reactionaries, but you expect better from labor. the real leadership on calling out the mass slaughter comes overseas and here from the greens.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

On the topic of Australian politics, I don’t think 80%+ of voters give the slightest toss about Israel vs Palestine.

I don’t think it’ll harm or advantage Albanese in the slightest.

 

[Saint]

On the topic of Australian politics, I don’t think 80%+ of voters give the slightest toss about Israel vs Palestine.

I don’t think it’ll harm or advantage Albanese in the slightest.

The UK election showed that the 10% who do care, really do care. Pro-Palestine Independents (single issue candidates) won 6 seats and the Greens went from 1 to 4.

My counterpoint is that even if the majority of people support Israel, most of them are the ones who don't actually care. They just have a basic opinion formed from the Australian media stories. The 10% who actively care will campaign, support, join parties, quit the ALP (if they're not kicked out first) over it. The 10% who care are 10x more likely to be pro-Palestine than Pro-Israel.

I honestly can't work out why Albanese is going to take a hit on this hill for Netanyahu who nobody likes, even his own electorate. It's worse than taking a hit over Trump, who at least has some influence over Australia's economic performance.