Anthony Albanese - How long? -2-

[Sphynx]

there have been allegations made by the media of criminal behavior

corruption will exist anywhere there is power

CFMEU doing things like threatening to strike if duck season in vic is cancelled was pretty ****ing stupid

but don't for a second think this is purely about some bikies at the CFMEU, its an attack on a successful and powerful union because the corporates and politicians are anti worker and they don't like not being in full control

they aren't trying to clean up corruption they're trying to make sure they have a monopoly on it

they also dont like their profits being impacted by little things like workers rights, safety or fair wages

It's not.

And if you managed to write that with a straight face, congratulations.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

This is true of corporations.

But most wage theft happens in Small Businesses who, it needs to be repeatedly pointed out, are breaking the law if they do so.

My wife was working for a small coffee shop.

The owner made a mistake and ended up short changing the superannuation. It was a genuine mistake, and the shop wasn't very lucrative, so she underwent a genuine level of hardship paying it back.

She ( the owner) later sold the business. The new owner immediately dropped the wages ( illegal when purchased as a running business ) and pressured the staff to work for cash. I used to argue with my wife about why she should be the whistle blower. She didn't want to "rock the boat" and quietly quit. Shits me when workers are so submissive. We have "some" good laws in Australia, use them.

 

[Saint]

My wife was working for a small coffee shop.

The owner made a mistake and ended up short changing the superannuation. It was a genuine mistake, and the shop wasn't very lucrative, so she underwent a genuine level of hardship paying it back.

She ( the owner) later sold the business. The new owner immediately dropped the wages ( illegal when purchased as a running business ) and pressured the staff to work for cash. I used to argue with my wife about why she should be the whistle blower. She didn't want to "rock the boat" and quietly quit. Shits me when workers are so submissive. We have "some" good laws in Australia, use them.

Part of the problem is that so many small businesses just pay minimum wage. If they weren't paying minimum/award wage and just set up a contract with their staff on their own terms that they understand, as long as they're above minimum/award, there's no worries.

If you adopt the award, then you have to fulfill all the obligations which can sometimes be difficult for people, who just want to sell coffee, to understand fully.

 

[peetoo]

Dutton has been stomping on Albanese this week.

He has a point below and Shorten's comments are illogical.

If we breakup the large corrupt organisation, we face the risk of splinter corrupt organisations?

Then ****ing legislate it and don't enable it.

I’m just waiting to se the detail

 

[Sttew]

It's not.

And if you managed to write that with a straight face, congratulations.

Difficult to fathom how anyone could describe the CFMEU as the victim...

 

[Chief]

Dutton has been stomping on Albanese this week.

He has a point below and Shorten's comments are illogical.

If we breakup the large corrupt organisation, we face the risk of splinter corrupt organisations?

Then ****ing legislate it and don't enable it.

Is Dutton this keen on breaking up corporations that steal from people? Engage in illegal behaviour?

No?

How about churches?

 

[Sphynx]

Is Dutton this keen on breaking up corporations that steal from people? Engage in illegal behaviour?

No?

How about churches?

Whatabouttism?

How is it relevant?

Dutton is a hypocrite, I agree. But he's been spot on so far on this issue.

 

[peetoo]

Is Dutton this keen on breaking up corporations that steal from people? Engage in illegal behaviour?

No?

How about churches?

What tab out the banking enquiry?

 

[Chief]

Whatabouttism?

How is it relevant?

Dutton is a hypocrite, I agree. But he's been spot on so far on this issue.

He doesn't have much cred given his track record. Why should anyone listen to him? He's preaching to the converted.

 

[Gralin]

Difficult to fathom how anyone could describe the CFMEU as the victim...

i mean when you miss the entire point of what I was saying sure

 

[Not Important]

He doesn't have much cred given his track record. Why should anyone listen to him? He's preaching to the converted

while true the polls are showing simplistic sloganeering seems to appeal to those not strongly committed or that interested in day-to-day politics.

 

[Sttew]

i mean when you miss the entire point of what I was saying sure

I don't want to dwell on what you said, but how else does one interpret a statement that reads, "its an attack on a successful and powerful union because the corporates and politicians are anti worker and they don't like not being in full control" ?

 

[Gralin]

I don't want to dwell on what you said, but how else does one interpret a statement that reads, "its an attack on a successful and powerful union because the corporates and politicians are anti worker and they don't like not being in full control" ?

that corporations and politicians are anti worker and they will use any opportunity they can to weaken worker rights

that the primary purpose of everything playing out in the media right now is to weaken unions and worker movements in Australia

its not about cleaning up corruption to make the CFMEU strong that's for sure

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Part of the problem is that so many small businesses just pay minimum wage. If they weren't paying minimum/award wage and just set up a contract with their staff on their own terms that they understand, as long as they're above minimum/award, there's no worries.

If you adopt the award, then you have to fulfill all the obligations which can sometimes be difficult for people, who just want to sell coffee, to understand fully.

If you buy a business as a going concern, there is a minimum time before you are allowed to change the staff pay or conditions.
The new owner was shonky as hell.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Which side, out of the corporations and their lawyers, or the Unions and their lawyers are the ones who you think are making it more complicated? (both sets of lawyers). But I doubt it's the Unions' fault that the EBA's and awards are complicated.

That's a very simplistic view... Do you think employers want to add complexity into the way they pay people?

 

[Vindicater]

Unions create an imbalance where less skilled people get paid more than skilled people.

What a load of tosh.

 

[peetoo]

that corporations and politicians are anti worker and they will use any opportunity they can to weaken worker rights

that the primary purpose of everything playing out in the media right now is to weaken unions and worker movements in Australia

its not about cleaning up corruption to make the CFMEU strong that's for sure

Abbott infamously said he’d go with all the IPA s wish list if he could

Compare that with most unions articles I know which I prefer

 

[JackOutback]

That's a very simplistic view... Do you think employers want to add complexity into the way they pay people?

For big corporations, if that little complexity allows them to pay people less over the course of years, then yes. People are largely a number on a balance sheet to them, if they can reduce overall workforce costs by adding to the workload of a few HR minions, they will.

 

[Carn The Berries]

For big corporations, if that little complexity allows them to pay people less over the course of years, then yes. People are largely a number on a balance sheet to them, if they can reduce overall workforce costs by adding to the workload of a few HR minions, they will.

Any "savings" they could potentially make would be offset, at least to some degree" by having to employ more people to ensure compliance, increased audit costs etc.

I'm yet to see any evidence of the widespread, deliberate, underpayment of workers by large corporations that seems to be implied in this discussion...

 

[Gralin]

Any "savings" they could potentially make would be offset, at least to some degree" by having to employ more people to ensure compliance, increased audit costs etc.

I'm yet to see any evidence of the widespread, deliberate, underpayment of workers by large corporations that seems to be implied in this discussion...

 

[Gralin]

 

[Gralin]

 

[The Punter]

Also, evil gonna evil. The complexity may make it easier to obfuscate the machinations of underpayment, but a company determined to underpay their workers will find a way to do so. Eliminating as much complexity as possible will make it easier for smaller businesses to comply and appropriately pay their workers and remove an excuse for that underpayment.

But the complexity keeps a group of people in work in much the same way as it does with tax law.

Back to the screenshots...

 

[Sphynx]

He doesn't have much cred given his track record. Why should anyone listen to him? He's preaching to the converted.

Credibility on what? Again, you seemed to be using floored logic if you keep diverting from the issue we are discussing about other discussion points completely irrelevant to this one.

If we don't listen to him, who are we going to listen to?

The people that received millions of dollars in funds from the entity under investigation? The one with the massive conflict of interest, bordering on evidence of corruptive behavior?

How's their credibility on the topic?

 

[Sphynx]

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Ahh yes.

Massive corporations like Coles Myer and Wesfarmers flying too close to the sun on pay awards means that the CFMEU (****ing lol) are the good guys on this topic.

Especially when we are talking about legitimate medium to small business' being the extorted ones when you are discussing CFMEU EBA signatories.


You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, nor who you are defending.

This is not a university class about theoretical trade unions and industrial relations.

Australia has some of the most powerful and corrupt unions on the planet, with the CFMEU being THE most corrupt and powerful in Australia.....

I've sat with directors of some of the largest developer and hotel chains on the planet and they absolutely hate the Australian labour market and construction industry, to the point they don't invest in it like they do London, New York etc. All purely because of our construction unions.

The irony that the 'left' side of politics are the first to defend the biggest group of meathead, racist, misogynistic, bully, rednecks there are in the country, all because their core political values aligned 100 years ago and they've been getting massive donations ever since.

The only thing Australian Trade Unions have in common with the ALP these days are a desire for the absolute betterment of working class pay levels.

If their Unions didn't instruction them to vote ALP, they'd be voting One Nation. That's the truth. There's not a bigger group of core extreme far right racists in the country than the top of the CFMEU.