Game Day Around The Grounds Rnds 1 - 5

[myblueroan]

Have fun. Their mods are banning posts from their own supporters that they consider ‘too negative’.

The absolute state of that joint.

Some of those posters last nite needed banning. It was the language and metaphor use around the negativity. Haven't been back but assuming those posts would be gone.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

We would be playing more players from other clubs then them I would imagine

Difference is they’ve put way more stock into the players they bought and expecting them to fly the flag. I don’t expect any of our recruits to be in leadership roles unless they’ve played close to 100 games. Once again, Dan Hannebery is handing out jumpers to debutants now like he’s been there for 10 years.

 

[Gethelred]

That’s the point, those clubs had twice as much talent and didn’t achieve anymore then this side. Imagine this Richmond side with another 4-5 star players like those teams had and as you say there is no secret to what they are doing yet they have still dominated the last 4 seasons and it doesn’t look like it’s going to stop this year.

I'm going to go from the opposite position, and say that with another 4-5 star players they couldn't play the game they play right now.

The key behind their game is that the majority of their players simply do not go for the ball; they wait for the opposition to pick it up, before bringing them to ground and knocking the ball free. They don't want HTB or a ballup, they want consistently spilling out chaos ball and opposition players being knocked off their feet; it gives them cascading outnumbers to each subsequent contest, and exhausts midfields. Without that level of self sacrifice - and let's face it, the majority of guns in AFL ever who were truly as self sacrificing as the role players in this Richmond team is rather low - you're not going to be able to play the way they play.

Think about it; if you've guns, you want them with ball in hand. The reason Richmond play the way they do is to keep their players from taking possession for as long as possible, and the second they do all of their players go as quickly as they can; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and they reset and go again.

When you've good players, you build your game around possession. They built their game around the refusal to take possession until it's made completely and utterly safe.

 

[JustaBattler]

That’s the point, those clubs had twice as much talent and didn’t achieve anymore then this side. Imagine this Richmond side with another 4-5 star players like those teams had and as you say their is no secret to what they are doing yet they have still dominated the last 4 seasons and it doesn’t look like it’s going to stop this year.

I would back Carlton to beat Richmond - with our best team on the field - no worries.
You know why?
because Teague (amongst a couple of other coaches) has already figured out what you need to do to even out the game against them - the game plan was on show - good enough to keep us in th game with 5 minuytes to go - playing unfit forward line and a depleted midfield.and a couple of passengers.
Even Hardwick saw what he saw- he described it as fast transitioning - but that was a purposful lie. All Teague did was refuse to go where Richmond whanted us to go on the rebound. As soon as you have kickers good enough to switch play or run to go through the middle Richmnd's defensive structures are no better than anyone's elses.
Does this mean you will beat Richmond? no all it means that the easy rope a dope wins they rack up against most teams aren't on. Then yoiu have to be able to match their run - but that also means Richmnd has to be good enough to beat your own strengths.

Sure Richmond's experinced and well drilled side are good enough to win another flag- but they wont find it easy to beat the Doggies ( as one example) - their coach has figured them out as well and has the same or better combination of running ability and forward marking power as we do.

 

[Accidental genius]

I would back Carlton to beat Richmond - with our best team on the field - no worries.
You know why?
because Teague (amongst a couple of other coaches) has already figured out what you need to do to even out the game against them - the game plan was on show - good enough to keep us in th game with 5 minuytes to go - playing unfit forward line and a depleted midfield.and a couple of passengers.
Even Hardwick saw what he saw- he described it as fast transitioning - but that was a purposful lie. All Teague did was refuse to go where Richmond whanted us to go on the rebound. As soon as you have kickers good enough to switch play or run to go through the middle Richmnd's defensive structures are no better than anyone's elses.
Does this mean you will beat Richmond? no all it means that the easy rope a dope wins they rack up against most teams aren't on. Then yoiu have to be able to match their run - but that also means Richmnd has to be good enough to beat your own strengths.

Sure Richmond's experinced and well drilled side are good enough to win another flag- but they wont find it easy to beat the Doggies ( as one example) - their coach has figured them out as well and has the same or better combination of running ability and forward marking power as we do.

I’m not sure how dogs will go against tiges but it will be an interesting game for sure. Maybe a better example you could have used is the way swans put them away do convincingly. In your opinion was that match won due to horse outcoaching Hardwick or tiges players not turning up on the day?

 

[JustaBattler]

I’m not sure how dogs will go against tiges but it will be an interesting game for sure. Maybe a better example you could have used is the way swans put them away do convincingly. In your opinion was that match won due to horse outcoaching Hardwick or tiges players not turning up on the day?

Sydney matched Richmond's each way running and contested ball play - and too have figured out how not to play for Richmond. zthey have also managed to develop and find a few really good young players- courtesy of their development regime- which has been going for a over a decade now...

 

[thylacine60]

I used you know all the players names of the great richmond teams - probably because our mob were so often against them - this group of swarming clowns? please

 

[Dadda Dave]

Selective Membrey has pencilled in 5.

So has Billings

 

[Arr0w]

Eagles, easy

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[Dadda Dave]

Eagles by plenty..

 

[Gethelred]

They're so strong at home, it kind of puts claims of #VICBIAS to shame.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Eagles, easy

Hope The Eagles don’t take it easy.

 

[JustaBattler]

Its our first game of the weekend tonight innit?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I'm going to go from the opposite position, and say that with another 4-5 star players they couldn't play the game they play right now.

The key behind their game is that the majority of their players simply do not go for the ball; they wait for the opposition to pick it up, before bringing them to ground and knocking the ball free. They don't want HTB or a ballup, they want consistently spilling out chaos ball and opposition players being knocked off their feet; it gives them cascading outnumbers to each subsequent contest, and exhausts midfields. Without that level of self sacrifice - and let's face it, the majority of guns in AFL ever who were truly as self sacrificing as the role players in this Richmond team is rather low - you're not going to be able to play the way they play.

Think about it; if you've guns, you want them with ball in hand. The reason Richmond play the way they do is to keep their players from taking possession for as long as possible, and the second they do all of their players go as quickly as they can; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and they reset and go again.

When you've good players, you build your game around possession. They built their game around the refusal to take possession until it's made completely and utterly safe.

They do what every great side has done and that’s punish teams turnovers while managing the damage on theirs. They play a spare back and pretty much rely on pressure up the ground to make sides bomb it to where their players are. Teams like Hawthorn done the same thing, be willing to lose stoppages knowing you’ll win it back. Geelong also in 2011 under Scott won a premiership doing this. The only thing different is they then play a territory game rather then a more precise kicking game. It has the same result as they still some how manage to not lose their defensive structure.
Im not sure how they wouldn’t be better with more top liners. You replace guys like Rioli, Graham and Broad for multiple AA players and they are a much better side. Probably going for 5 straight. That’s what these other great sides had at their disposal which Richmond don’t.

 

[Gethelred]

They do what every great side has done and that’s punish teams turnovers while managing the damage on theirs. They play a spare back and pretty much rely on pressure up the ground to make sides bomb it to where their players are. Teams like Hawthorn done the same thing, be willing to lose stoppages knowing you’ll win it back. Geelong also in 2011 under Scott won a premiership doing this. The only thing different is they then play a territory game rather then a more precise kicking game. It has the same result as they still some how manage to not lose their defensive structure.
Im not sure how they wouldn’t be better with more top liners. You replace guys like Rioli, Graham and Broad for multiple AA players and they are a much better side. Probably going for 5 straight. That’s what these other great sides had at their disposal which Richmond don’t.

Because outside of Bolton, Edwards, Cotchin, Dusty, Houli, Grimes, Vlaustin, Riewoldt, Lynch, Prestia, Lambert, they don't actively go for the ball within a stoppage. Good players are not second to the ball, they read where it's going and get there first; Richmond don't play that way, instead focussing on structuring well around the stoppage in both short and long options and trying either to force the turnover in close or force the long hack kick. If one of their role players gets the ball, they immediately transition to one of their ball players, and so play works through them.

You cannot build a gameplan around avoiding possession and punishing it in others whilst seeking possession yourself. It just doesn't work; the mindset is antithetical. It's why people still to this day do not understand how Richmond can be such a good team without having multiple greats.

 

[HBF]

Word on the Pies board is that Moore is playing forward tonight.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Because outside of Bolton, Edwards, Cotchin, Dusty, Houli, Grimes, Vlaustin, Riewoldt, Lynch, Prestia, Lambert, they don't actively go for the ball within a stoppage. Good players are not second to the ball, they read where it's going and get there first; Richmond don't play that way, instead focussing on structuring well around the stoppage in both short and long options and trying either to force the turnover in close or force the long hack kick. If one of their role players gets the ball, they immediately transition to one of their ball players, and so play works through them.

You cannot build a gameplan around avoiding possession and punishing it in others whilst seeking possession yourself. It just doesn't work; the mindset is antithetical. It's why people still to this day do not understand how Richmond can be such a good team without having multiple greats.

Absolutely, and this is what Hawthorn done. The difference is instead of guys like Rioli, Gunston, and Bruest (all AA’s) Richmond have the likes of Rioli, Aarts and Castagna up forward. Same as having McIntosh and Ellis/Baker on the wings compared to Smith and Hill. Sure all teams play through their main guys but no side has came close to achieving what Richmond has with so many unheralded role players. Having guns in those roles instead of handy players make sides so much better.

 

[Gethelred]

Absolutely, and this is what Hawthorn done. The difference is instead of guys like Rioli, Gunston, and Bruest (all AA’s) Richmond have the likes of Rioli, Aarts and Castagna up forward. Same as having McIntosh and Ellis/Baker on the wings compared to Smith and Hill. Sure all teams play through their main guys but no side has came close to achieving what Richmond has with so many unheralded role players. Having guns in those roles instead of handy players make sides so much better.

???

Hawthorn's stoppage game was similar to Richmond's - set up a kick behind, usually one of Hodge or Mitchell - and pressure opponents into going long down the line, but that's where the similarities end. Hawthorn were very much a possession team; their method of avoiding turning the ball over consisted of just never doing it, and cutting teams up by foot. They also stayed right the **** away from 200+ cm forwards, instead going for Gunston as a smart player ahead of just being tall, and using Breust as a marking target when Gunston wasn't around. Roughead and Hale/McEvoy simply became ruckmen, kicks down the line and/or a kick behind play; leave the forward craft to the forwards.

They didn't have more than half the team avoiding possession or behaving like a conduit for the good players.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Going the Eagles because Collingwood.

Interesting to see how WC use Brander. He’s named forward in a land of the giants forward line, suspect he might go back to cover Hurn.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Eagles. By 5 goals +

 

[17SetMeFree]

the tigers injury list doesn't reflect how they play

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

???

Hawthorn's stoppage game was similar to Richmond's - set up a kick behind, usually one of Hodge or Mitchell - and pressure opponents into going long down the line, but that's where the similarities end. Hawthorn were very much a possession team; their method of avoiding turning the ball over consisted of just never doing it, and cutting teams up by foot. They also stayed right the fu** away from 200+ cm forwards, instead going for Gunston as a smart player ahead of just being tall, and using Breust as a marking target when Gunston wasn't around. Roughead and Hale/McEvoy simply became ruckmen, kicks down the line and/or a kick behind play; leave the forward craft to the forwards.

They didn't have more than half the team avoiding possession or behaving like a conduit for the good players.

They setup from stoppages in the same way.

Yes after that it is the absolute opposite but we are talking about an extra ~1 possession each per game between the bottom ten players from both sides. They both, like all sides, mostly play through their best players. The bottom ten or so having a difference of at the most 3-4 touches a quarter doesn’t scream one sides avoiding players and the other not.

 

[Arr0w]

the tigers injury list doesn't reflect how they play

What injuries, 3 players?

 

[HBF]

Eagles. By 5 goals +

Might be a little more than that with no Adams.