News Assistant coach changes for 2018... BUMPED p42, now discussing potential 2019 promotions to other clubs

[Countrypie]

So the review was all smoke and mirrors

Behind the shadows..it appears so

 

[Saintly Viewed]

And there we have it the post that sums you up as a "supporter"

Sorry, I thought we can have a laugh.

I didn't realise we all have to be so serious all the time.

Ofcourse the club isn't thinking about bigfooty, as if they would remotely care, but if they were trolling, they couldn't have done it better.

But if you don't rate me as a supporter, that's ok too, in time I will get over it.

Until then, chive on.... (not sure what it means, but it must be important)

 

[doodles98]

On the contrary these moves will hedge our bets on his and the clubs future for 2018. They appear, to me at least, to be designed from a coaching perspective to back in the process whilst at the same time position ourselves for the future.

Finals in 2018 is a bonus, but given the re-appointment can't be justified on results how can we actually look at the "outgoings" without an element of derision? As it stands there's either some form of Littlefingeresque scheming going on or the people in charge are complete morons.

I see what you're getting at but I can't take solace in your "little fingeresque scheming" optimism (nice wordsmithery btw). I want and expect something genuine, open and substantive in terms of change and strategy approach for the future.
That said... a nice orderly transition into a Clarkson regime with an enhanced list would be a nice "scheme" if it could be pulled off wouldn't it. Fools Gold though I suspect.

 

[Sco80]

Seems that way. Donavorn was the only real big Change.

That what Happens with you get someone already inside the Club to do the Review instead someone outside the Club

It was always a scam review to appease the gullible. Which there are many, thankfully on BF there isn't too many gullible supporters and the supporters see it for what it is. A scam.

 

[Sco80]

I see what you're getting at but I can't take solace in your "little fingeresque scheming" optimism (nice wordsmithery btw). I want and expect something genuine, open and substantive in terms of change and strategy approach for the future.
That said... a nice orderly transition into a Clarkson regime with an enhanced list would be a nice "scheme" if it could be pulled off wouldn't it. Fools Gold though I suspect.

By the time Clarkson becomes available to us he will be old news. Hopefully something better will be available

 

[doodles98]

By the time Clarkson becomes available to us he will be old news. Hopefully something better will be available

Clarkson is out of contract in 2 years. You reckon he will be past it by then?

 

[Sco80]

Clarkson is out of contract in 2 years. You reckon he will be past it by then?

Quite possibly. The game evolves very quickly these days

 

[Mongo Ming]

Donavorn did nothing to deserve the hate. Donovan on the other hand was a hippy s o a b and I'm glad he's gone.

You mean this guy? Smoked too much herb setting up our fitness regime.



Imagine a Wheel of Fortune episode where the mystery word was DAVOREN. Half the posters on here would be going home empty handed.

 

[doodles98]

You mean this guy? Smoked too much herb setting up our fitness regime.

That's the guy. Why'd we get a goddam 60's hippy folk singer as our fitness guru in the first place is what I wanna know. Whose genius idea was that?

 

[PieLebo87]

I'm not having a go at anyone, and don't misinterpret what I'm saying but what did you guys expect? To see blood?

I remember watching when they clarified during the media conference that sacking blokes isn't going to be the answer. That didn't just apply to Buckley, it applied to the whole football department. Even if it means re-training, and/or change roles around, they'll do that, which appears to be the case.

We've already seen a few heads roll, but I never expected for there to be a mass culling.

 

[Unknown Identity]

View attachment 410387 I don't think Bucks was too pleased about the photo Unknown Identity

Haha.. Herald Sun got hold of it!

Don't tell Bucks it was you that snapped him!

 

[BEEG]

Lol. It's feeling a bit like that SV. Can't wait to see how they troll us over the trade period again.

Tell you right now bookmark it.

Won't do anything apart from trade a 3rd round pick for Crameri

Will trade Oxley for pick 1075

Will miss out on Brander by 1 pick and get some mid which is either a putrid kick or as slow as a 1 legged man.

 

[mike123]

Will trade Oxley for pick 1075

Fair value

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Tell you right now bookmark it.

Won't do anything apart from trade a 3rd round pick for Crameri

Will trade Oxley for pick 1075

Will miss out on Brander by 1 pick and get some mid which is either a putrid kick or as slow as a 1 legged man.

Oxley? one day someone will tell me why he's a bad egg.
But he might be done, has a contract though.
Crameri? Unsure about him, what's your take?

Our scout Knightmare is suggesting Brander has gone not so good lately.

But we do need a beauty that's big and can be key in the forward area.

Our luck, we'll get an average but ok key forward whilst next year all the goodies there, we'll miss them

 

[left at home]

Oxley? one day someone will tell me why he's a bad egg.
But he might be done, has a contract though.
Crameri? Unsure about him, what's your take?

Our scout Knightmare is suggesting Brander has gone not so good lately.

But we do need a beauty that's big and can be key in the forward area.

Our luck, we'll get an average but ok key forward whilst next year all the goodies there, we'll miss them

Reading between the lines of other posts, been injured with one problem one week, then another different injury the next, with out getting on the track to do any training to be injured, unless you call partying training.

 

[TKiL]

Should be gutting the whole place.

Most supporters are gutted

 

[doppleganger]

You are aware of how that is awarded, it's entirely done from people at your own club. So he got voted in by a dysfunctional Collingwood coaching panel which may have just been Nathan doing all the voting, and the players, that's it.

Yeah I am aware.

The other coaches and players rate each of the assistant coaches from their own team. So clearly Harvey was rated by Collingwood players and coaches as our best assistant in 2013, and they were that positive that he was given the overall gong.

The 2016 assistant coach of the year was Dew, I guess he is just a good bloke too.

We have a guy, Sanderson, who was that good as an assistant that he was actually given a crack as a senior coach. He is like Leppa at Richmond, a bloke Dimma got back as quick as he could.

Sando and Harvey two of the better credentialed and qualified assistants going around.

Development coaches I am less enthused by, as having previously had some involvement with the VFL team Lockyer n Rocca didn't really impress. Fly McCrae did...but unfortunately he is gone.

But just because some of the names stay the same, it doesn't mean they will be performing the same role in 2018.

You can recommend changes and a restructure of a department, whilst keeping most of the people. You can create new divisions, realign different areas of focus and responsibility and completely change how an area of business works but have many of the same people still there.

But as per usual on this board, because people weren't sacked the same few people shriek like banshees that the sky is falling.

 

[swoop42]

So how many assistants/support staff did Richmond actually replace , anyone know?
.

Thanks to old mate Jezza (Ponsford Magpie) he supplied what I was after and it turns out they dumped 5 assistant coaches.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...fl-killing-season-erupts-20160829-gr40hd.html

So far we've decided to not reappoint Burns and re-positioned Rocca and Lockyer with perhaps 2 or 3 new assistants to be added.

Granted it's something but given we were sold the Richmond example is it bold enough in comparison?

This is what Richmond set out to do this season with the new coaching panel.

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2016-11-10/coaching-and-development-structure

 

[Justlokan]

Here is the history of the four coaches you named above before they became senior coaches compared to the coaches with some "better playing careers" over the past 20 years. The old adage "By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail" is never more evident when you look at the history.

Nice piece of research. My only counter to that are the examples of Mark Neeld, Scott Watters and Brendon McCartney all of whom took very similar paths to Clarko Bevo and co.

However while a strong preparation is no guarantee, I think the really important thing you pointed out is that lack of preparation (Hird, Voss, Bucks) is virtually a sure-fire ticket to doom.

 

[Roverjg]

Nice piece of research. My only counter to that are the examples of Mark Neeld, Scott Watters and Brendon McCartney all of whom took very similar paths to Clarko Bevo and co.

However while a strong preparation is no guarantee, I think the really important thing you pointed out is that lack of preparation (Hird, Voss, Bucks) is virtually a sure-fire ticket to doom.

I only looked at the four you mentioned because they weren't stars, and had to take a different path to realise their dream to become an AFL coach, instead of having it gifted to them because of who they are. When it comes to coaching there is a fallacy that great players will make great coaches (or be able to impart their skills onto their players), particularly in the modern age.

Brendan McCartney
1994-1997: Coached Ocean Grove to four consecutive premierships
1998-1999: Assistant and development coach at Richmond
2000-2010: Assistant coach with Geelong
2010: Was voted the AFL's assistant coach of the year by the AFL Coaches' Association
2011: Forward line coach at Essendon

Mark Neeld:
2000-03: Coached Ocean Grove to four successive premierships from 2000 to 2003.
2004: Coached his junior club, St.Joseph's Football Club.
2005-07: Coached the Western Jets in the TAC
2008-2009: Defensive assistant coach of Collingwood.
2010-2011: In charge of Collingwood's midfield.

Excerpt from the Age following his sacking: "History will record Mark Neeld's one-and-a-half season stint at the helm of Melbourne as one of the bigger disasters AFL coaching has seen. History should also record that few coaches have taken on the senior job at a club as dysfunctional and strife-torn as the Demons have been these past couple of years. From day one, Neeld's coaching tenure was set against a backdrop of almost continual turmoil, be it an on-going saga about "tanking" which never went away, alleged friction among the club's indigenous players, the illness and eventual passing of chairman Jim Stynes, or getting caught up in the performance enhancing drugs saga. The final question asked of Neeld at Monday's press conference announcing his sacking was: "What went wrong?" The answer: "I don't know", will for many underline why the decision had to be made. It doesn't mean Neeld didn't have a clue what he wanted to do. That, indeed, is popularly seen as one of his biggest mistakes, best summed up as going too hard, too early at a club and playing list lacking enough seniority of mental toughness to be whacked with a large stick. Neeld made it obvious from the day of his appointment he wasn't taking on the job to win friends. The view of those who'd appointed him and who'd endorsed him was Melbourne needed some serious toughening up.

Scott Watters
2006-2009: Coach of Subiaco. Runners-up in 2008
2010-2011: Assistant coach at Collingwood

Having read articles on all three coaches, they each lost their players very early in their tenures for a multitude of reasons.

As you indicated while a strong preparation is no guarantee, none of the "star player" coaches have been successful with minimal or no preparation.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

That's the guy. Why'd we get a goddam 60's hippy folk singer as our fitness guru in the first place is what I wanna know. Whose genius idea was that?

You mean this guy? Smoked too much herb setting up our fitness regime.



Imagine a Wheel of Fortune episode where the mystery word was DAVOREN. Half the posters on here would be going home empty handed.

What a dreadful song. No wonder Bob Dylan scoffed at this guy's talent.

 

[Babylove]

Just a couple of things.

1. The Rocca part time role hasn't been confirmed by the club. I'm not saying it is or isn't true, in fact that could be because the offer has been made but not accepted yet. Point is until the club announces it, it is not a fait a compli.
2. Geoff Walsh was very clear that the changes didn't necessarily mean sweeping changes to personnel and that the most significant changes will be to structure which haven't begun to be rolled out yet. Reading between the lines he was intimating that the new structure would be manned largely by existing personnel
3. We haven't heard anything about what is happening with the list management/recruitment team yet, which we know has been identified as an area that has been underperforming
4. There are areas of the F.D. That aren't highly visible, who, and who we only know exist through the staff list on the website. Do we know what changes have been made in those positions as they are unlikely to be announced, they'll just happen.

 

[Quicky]

Thanks to old mate Jezza (Ponsford Magpie) he supplied what I was after and it turns out they dumped 5 assistant coaches.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...fl-killing-season-erupts-20160829-gr40hd.html

So far we've decided to not reappoint Burns and re-positioned Rocca and Lockyer with perhaps 2 or 3 new assistants to be added.

Granted it's something but given we were sold the Richmond example is it bold enough in comparison?

This is what Richmond set out to do this season with the new coaching panel.

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2016-11-10/coaching-and-development-structure

The difference is their coaches were out of contract. We'd be paying our assistants out, bringing in new ones, likely breaking the footy department cap and as a result paying the 75% tax on anyone we brought in. It suggests to me we're still not ready to pay the tax, or at least when we do we're going to very targeted about it.

 

[jmac70]

Just a couple of things.

1. The Rocca part time role hasn't been confirmed by the club. I'm not saying it is or isn't true, in fact that could be because the offer has been made but not accepted yet. Point is until the club announces it, it is not a fait a compli.
2. Geoff Walsh was very clear that the changes didn't necessarily mean sweeping changes to personnel and that the most significant changes will be to structure which haven't begun to be rolled out yet. Reading between the lines he was intimating that the new structure would be manned largely by existing personnel
3. We haven't heard anything about what is happening with the list management/recruitment team yet, which we know has been identified as an area that has been underperforming
4. There are areas of the F.D. That aren't highly visible, who, and who we only know exist through the staff list on the website. Do we know what changes have been made in those positions as they are unlikely to be announced, they'll just happen.

A well reasoned post, but the BF mob demand heads must roll. The more heads the better.

 

[Quicky]

Just a couple of things.

1. The Rocca part time role hasn't been confirmed by the club. I'm not saying it is or isn't true, in fact that could be because the offer has been made but not accepted yet. Point is until the club announces it, it is not a fait a compli.
2. Geoff Walsh was very clear that the changes didn't necessarily mean sweeping changes to personnel and that the most significant changes will be to structure which haven't begun to be rolled out yet. Reading between the lines he was intimating that the new structure would be manned largely by existing personnel
3. We haven't heard anything about what is happening with the list management/recruitment team yet, which we know has been identified as an area that has been underperforming
4. There are areas of the F.D. That aren't highly visible, who, and who we only know exist through the staff list on the website. Do we know what changes have been made in those positions as they are unlikely to be announced, they'll just happen.

That's not quite true about the list management recruiting team. They announced Derek Hine is safe but will be in a new role within a restructured list management team. Which I took to be he's going back to talent ID and drafting and away from list management stuff. No word on Rendell and the others though.