At what point does the heat come on the club?

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Sep 16, 2006
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I will preface this by saying that injuries have played a part, but they don't tell the full story.

Inquiring minds were concerned about the loss of coaching talent last year and were worried that we would struggle to replace it. Not only does it seem that we didn't replace quality coaches like Scott but failed to replace loss of coaching numbers with equivalents. In pure staffing levels we are diminished.

I look at the second and third year players, and aside from Fyfe, I don't see a lot of improvement. Players like Hill, Ballas, Mayne, De Boer, Suban, Broughton, etc all seemed to go to another level last year and because of that we improved.

This year, all those players have at best remained the same. That is at a very best estimation. Meanwhile, non-Fyfe second year players seem to have done little. Even more apparent is the relative lack of impact first year Freo players like Lower or Pitt (as compared to impacts made by Silvagni or Roberton last year).

To use an example: Simon Lloyd gets a lot of credit for our development improvements, and from what I can tell that is well deserved. However, this year he has two roles - assistant coach, as well as development.

Is this an effective use of his talents? Is the reason we have gone backwards because we are spreading the coaching resources too thinly?

Yes, injuries have hurt. But when the majority of these injuries are to second and third year players, are they really an excuse?

To end this post. We have witnessed a number of clubs throw massive amounts of resources to improve their footy department (Essendon the most notable, but Richmond have made noise about the same). Are we falling behind? And where does the buck stop if we are?
 
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Withhold judgement until after the next 2 weeks.
I agree. But at the same time, I see a lot of worrying signs creeping in that suggest we have gone backwards from last year, and not just in players available. Certain players just aren't coming on or have gone backwards.
 

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To a degree, I agree with you, however you are underplaying the wholesale effect of the injuries IMO.
Last year was more of a trickle and we had a log of coverage. Eg at the end of the year, Ballantyne got injured but Walters did the job. He's now injured too.
If Johnson was off snorting a line, Silvagni was there to fill the gap.
It's not happening, and others like Johnson and Duffiled and Hill are playing ordinary footy.
 
Non thread.

Coaching staff weren't the reason we lost today. We were outplayed.

Edi: To rebutt your second paragraph, Hill is now at the point where he is too dangerous to be allowed off the leash, Ballas has been injured, DeBoer has stepped up,alot, Suban was smashing it pre injury, and something is happening with Broughton, of which we don't have the slightest. Mayne is a permanent lock in our forward line (gun), for at least as long as his contract permits.

Two weeks ago you would be lording how much our 2nd year players have come on. Last week you were professing how invaluable Palmer is to our team. Ra ra ra.

Our players are performing within their parameters, and I do not believe for a second that our match commitee is under staffed.

*PFFFTLPFTTT*
 
The heat comes on i f we lose next week,we should win easily,but within injurys and so many players lacking form,it may be tougher than we think
 
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Injuries hurt, for sure. But we unearthed some players last year. Walters stepped up at the end of the season. Suban showed real grit in bad losses. Hill went to the next level. Ballantyne excelled. De Boer became crucial. Our 2008 draftees went to the next level in 2010.

Our available 2009 draftees have, aside from Fyfe, gone backwards this year. Crichton isn't much. Roberton is worrisome. Bollenhagen hasn't been impressive in many games he has played so far in the preseason or WAFL.

I just feel that there has been little improvement in the under 21s group, whereas that was a huge focus last year, and the results followed.
 
I agree. But at the same time, I see a lot of worrying signs creeping in that suggest we have gone backwards from last year, and not just in players available. Certain players just aren't coming on or have gone backwards.

If we had won either of the last two weeks matches, you would be singing a different song.

Again, reactionary posting.
 
I wonder if it is more a case of, we have the resources but not the talent, re: coaching staff

Yes we lost Scott but who do we replace him with at such short notice.

Most assistants are like rookies, in that no one knows their potential until they are in the hot seat. Scott was a beauty, and yes we are missing his influence. But that is not to say another Scott is around the corner, we just have to find him.

I am sure we have finances to cover that dept.
 
I think injuries will serve as an easy excuse so the club won't come under any real pressure. Not only the players that are out injured at the moment, but our interrupted pre-season and players that don't seem to be100% right at the moment but are still playing (Broughton, Hill etc). We have also been fortunate in some of our wins such as the Brisbane game which also makes our performances seem better.

Our game plan does seem to be falling down however, which is more of an overarching coaching issue than a game day one. I think the number 1 area of concern at the moment seems to be our rebound 50. We have no run and carry off the back line, and struggle to get out with our kick ins. Duffield, Broughton, Johnson, Ibbotson etc are all playing worse than last year. Off memory Chris Scott was our back line coach, so I wonder how much of this problem is due to coaching and the game plan rather than individual performances.

In the majority of our games so far, it seems to be far easier for the opposition to rebound it from their defensive 50 than it is for us. Yes our forward pressure has been good, but once it leaves the 50 the opposition always seems to have the time and space to mark it, run, and then deliver into an open forward 50 quickly. For us it seems to be a kick out to a pack near the boundary line hoping Sandilands will snatch it out of the air, followed by chipping it around in defense slowly close to the boundary with no run or urgency.

Could the lack of effort/poor attitude of some of our players also be due to them being less than happy with our current game plan?
 
Agree to a point, we should have bulked up on the coaching staff. But injuries are a big part of our problem and I don't think many of them that would have be avoided with different coaching/training methods..

We're sitting at 4-3 with some key players out.....

One player that hasn't come on much this year is Hill, but that might be due to how high our expectations are.....we think he's going to be a Matera/Long clone but thats freakishly good....maybe we need to tone our expectations down a touch..
 
Injuries hurt, for sure. But we unearthed some players last year. Walters stepped up at the end of the season. Suban showed real grit in bad losses. Hill went to the next level. Ballantyne excelled. De Boer became crucial. Our 2008 draftees went to the next level in 2010.

Our available 2009 draftees have, aside from Fyfe, gone backwards this year. Crichton isn't much. Roberton is worrisome. Bollenhagen hasn't been impressive in many games he has played so far in the preseason or WAFL.

I just feel that there has been little improvement in the under 21s group, whereas that was a huge focus last year, and the results followed.

Crichton appears to be a quality midfielder, with excellent defensive skills and pressure, while still posessing the ability to be damaging with the ball in hand.

Roberton played well in his first year. He looks quite proficient as either a shutdown defender, or a rebounding flanker.
 

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i can understand the annoyance, and in a loss there is always disturbing sign or two. but as i posted in another thread, we are 5 players, actually 4 now that crowley has done a quad, from not being able to field a side, unless the afl changes rookie list elevation rules for us. of the players injured we have numerous a-grade players.

it is now starting to be a bit too much for us. but i tell you, watch out in the second half of the season, i wouldnt want to play us from round 16 onwards
 
We were so far off winning them that is an absurd hypothetical.

There is so much going wrong with our coaching at the moment it's scary. This was evident in round 1.

Not at all. Asde from 15 minutes in the final quarter last week, we were on par with Richmond, while at times superior, for the entire match.

West coast jumped out to a quick 4 goal lead. We werent far behind that mid 3rd quarter. We were still obviously capable of winning the game, some point in the 3rd, early 4th.

Edit: You've shown yourself to be uninformed and unimaginative when discussing our strategic play. I take your second sentence with several pinches of NACl.
 
I wonder if it is more a case of, we have the resources but not the talent, re: coaching staff

Yes we lost Scott but who do we replace him with at such short notice.

Most assistants are like rookies, in that no one knows their potential until they are in the hot seat. Scott was a beauty, and yes we are missing his influence. But that is not to say another Scott is around the corner, we just have to find him.

I am sure we have finances to cover that dept.

It wasn't short notice though. Scott put himself on the market before our season ended when he applied for the Port job. Guys like Wallis had made it known they were leaving months in advance. Nothing was done to replace them until the last minute.
 
Didn't manage to watch the game today, glad I missed it. reading the threads here anyone would think it was the end of the world. Just need to move on and hope for a win next week.

A loss seems to draw out more comment than a win in these parts.
 
Not at all. Asde from 15 minutes in the final quarter last week, we were on par with Richmond, while at times superior, for the entire match.

West coast jumped out to a quick 4 goal lead. We werent far behind that mid 3rd quarter. We were still obviously capable of winning the game, some point in the 3rd, early 4th.

We were outclassed in key stats for both Richmond and West Coast. Shithouse efficiency against Richmond, lost contested ball and clearances against West Coast.

Their relative poorness kept us in the game, but we were outclassed in both, easily. The derby scoreline flattered us, IMO.

Edit: You've shown yourself to be uninformed and unimaginative when discussing our strategic play. I take your second sentence with several pinches of NACl.

Not sure what you mean here.
 
We have lost two games to Richmond and W.C. Both teams appear to be reasonable opponents this year. I don't have a problem with losing to two worthy opponents.

Answer: No heat. We lost to two up and comers, both which appear to be valid contestants for the finals this year, while also bumping off Footscray.

Again, non thread.
 
It wasn't short notice though. Scott put himself on the market before our season ended when he applied for the Port job. Guys like Wallis had made it known they were leaving months in advance. Nothing was done to replace them until the last minute.


Fair call, but again

Who do we replace him with ?

I haven't a clue because i have never monitored assistant coaches
 
We have lost two games to Richmond and W.C. Both teams appear to be reasonable opponents this year. I don't have a problem with losing to two worthy opponents.

Answer: No heat. We lost to two up and comers, both which appear to be valid contestants for the finals this year, while also bumping off Footscray.

Again, non thread.

Worthy opponents?? Weren't they both botton 4 last year? We have some problems, in the telecast they were saying we the worst in the league for scoring from kickouts.....that must be poor coaching as thats when you can set up plays....

No big heat just yet, but we've certainly had a kick up the arse and need to revisit our gameplan.
 
The problem with injuries from your best 22 is that it doesn't take very many before things start going down hill quickly. Depth is always going to be a balancing act. Managing an extended list is a balance between young players with potential and older players on the fringes of quality required. A difficult thing to do.

However what this means is clubs need to be vary wary and observant of how and why injuries occur particularly off-season, training and mcgoo injuries.
 
Fair call, but again

Who do we replace him with ?

I haven't a clue because i have never monitored assistant coaches

Neither have I, but it's pretty apparent these days, with mentors, succession plans, and increasing footy dept spending, that you can't really fall too far behind in these areas. And on face value, we seem to have gone backwards.
 

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