At what point does the heat come on the club?

[peppy la pew]

Neither have I, but it's pretty apparent these days, with mentors, succession plans, and increasing footy dept spending, that you can't really fall too far behind in these areas. And on face value, we seem to have gone backwards.

Agreed, only time will tell if it is because of coahes or injuries.

But it is frustrating ( to say the least ) watching the season unfold, to reveal the source of these insipid performances.

Lose next week and the blowtorch is firmly on the big toe.

edit : who was the clown that made a thread about us winning the next 4 games to go 8-1..

 

[Spoken4]

Got to agree with Clay here. You are not seeing the wood for the trees. The Freo of this year is not a scratch on last year. On your point about losing to "up and comers" - that's what we we last year and we should be ahead of that this year.

 

[Nickos66]

Got to agree with Clay here. You are not seeing the wood for the trees. The Freo of this year is not a scratch on last year. On your point about losing to "up and comers" - that's what we we last year and we should be ahead of that this year.

+1

6 char

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

We have lost three games.

Sorry, I wasn't listing the undefeated league leaders in "Our run of shameless failure".

Thankyou for your correction/essertion as to how bad we are.

So we have also lost to Geelong. Ok, thanks.

Shit, losing to Geelong means "We Deserve It".

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Got to agree with Clay here. You are not seeing the wood for the trees. The Freo of this year is not a scratch on last year. On your point about losing to "up and comers" - that's what we we last year and we should be ahead of that this year.

we have 300% more injuries this year.... how do people not see that

 

[Clay Davis]

The 'we deserve it' meme is pretty shithouse, considering I was the one who slayed Georgie boy in that thread.

 

[Clay Davis]

we have 300% more injuries this year.... how do people not see that

Do we? A lot of the injuries last year were negated by unearthing quality players or building on what we had.

Has not happened this year.

 

[blue shark]

We needed at least one more assistant coach this year, sat on our laurels
because of last years success.The same happened after 2006.
A ex-champion AFL player who could be the next potential head coach would of helped in the loss of Scott, Wallis, Longmuir.Needed to leave LLoyd in his position, or replace with the same.
Fremantle assistant coaches were poached, we need to do the same to another successfull club next year.

 

[Nickos66]

Do we? A lot of the injuries last year were negated by unearthing quality players or building on what we had.

Has not happened this year.

+1 again.

It seems the last 3 years injuries have been an exception to us playing well. Not so this year.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Do we? A lot of the injuries last year were negated by unearthing quality players or building on what we had.

Has not happened this year.

yeah but we have had less of an influx of high picks lately as well. mzungu would have been unearthed if he didnt root his knee. pitt has played and looked good, mellington and michie were late picks and probably arent that far away anyhow. anthony and lower were players with previous experience and roberts is more injured than anyone else on our list. so honestly who else can we "unearth"????? shepherd and sibosado? both are not up to it atm? we only have so many players on our list...........

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

+1 again.

It seems the last 3 years injuries have been an exception to us playing well. Not so this year.

if you honestly look at our injury list and cant see why we are beginning to struggle than you are blind...... no it doesnt excuse our work rate and effort which was poor today, but we are talking about 7 of our top 22 players, in ballas and barlows case we are talking about top 10 players. how can you not see that. we arent unearthing players because everyone bar a few have debuted.... we dont have a list of 100 we have a list of 42

im looking forward to revisiting this in 10 weeks time, shit even crowley got a game after being dropped and not having had to play a game in the wafl because our injury list is so dire and we have no other alternatives in form.... and even then, he comes back and does a quad...... it is in plain vision for everyone to see.... look at the pies and geelongs injury list, hell even west coasts, they have 25% of the injury list we do

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Got to agree with Clay here. You are not seeing the wood for the trees. The Freo of this year is not a scratch on last year. On your point about losing to "up and comers" - that's what we we last year and we should be ahead of that this year.

Strongly disagree. The only difference is last year we flew under the radar amidst the clouds of non expectation. This year we have lost games to a team undefeated, and two young teams generally regarded to be in a shake for the eight.

This year we have won what we should. But dragged ourself over with one or two, and lost some others. The only difference between this year and last is, the injuries are hurting us more than they, and I don't think we are pretenders for the top 4 like we were last year.

We are far and ahead a better team this year than last, despite the shit injury list. Like it or not, we are less likely to win, when our list isn't remotely close to mid strength.

 

[Clay Davis]

yeah but we have had less of an influx of high picks lately as well. mzungu would have been unearthed if he didnt root his knee. pitt has played and looked good, mellington and michie were late picks and probably arent that far away anyhow. anthony and lower were players with previous experience and roberts is more injured than anyone else on our list. so honestly who else can we "unearth"????? shepherd and sibosado? both are not up to it atm? we only have so many players on our list...........

None of Fyfe, Crichton, Roberton, Silvagni or Bollenhagen were higher picks from 2009 compared to 2010. I'll excuse Mora and Barlow because they were high picks and very special.

All of them contributed in some way. Crichton, Roberton and Bollenhagen all came in at very trying times and showed something in a few games.

None of last year draftees have shown the same. Pitt is at best as good as Roberton last year.That's stretching things. Lower isn't anywhere near Silvagni, although I'd say Lower probably has more talent.

Meanwhile, Walters and De Boer showed plenty at the end of last year, somewhat unexpectantly (neither high picks).

For mine, there just isn't the mix of player improvement that we saw last year. And that has nothing to do with where we got those players in the draft.

Thank Fyfe for Fyfe though.

 

[Nickos66]

What you're saying is true KPR but it shouldn't be up to Barlow & Ballas to determine our season. They're not the biggest problem as to why we're losing the way we are at the moment.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

What you're saying is true KPR but it shouldn't be up to Barlow & Ballas to determine our season. They're not the biggest problem as to why we're losing the way we are at the moment.

im simply arguing against clay's "we are not uneathing players this year" theory. you cant unearth players if we havent got them. no matter which way you look at it, we have been decimated by injuries to the point where we are relying on kids with little experience, and at that point, up and down performances are always going to happen.

look im not excusing the performance, it was horrid, against a very ordinary opponent, i also think harves was outcoached which is a horrible effort given he was against cement-head worsfold. but in 10 weeks time when we get a lot of our best players back, we will be dominating teams and everyone will be wondering what the big fuss was about. i cant wait to play the eagles again later on this year. we will murder them by 15 goals and it will be great

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

None of Fyfe, Crichton, Roberton, Silvagni or Bollenhagen were higher picks from 2009 compared to 2010. I'll excuse Mora and Barlow because they were high picks and very special.

All of them contributed in some way. Crichton, Roberton and Bollenhagen all came in at very trying times and showed something in a few games.

None of last year draftees have shown the same. Pitt is at best as good as Roberton last year.That's stretching things. Lower isn't anywhere near Silvagni, although I'd say Lower probably has more talent.

Meanwhile, Walters and De Boer showed plenty at the end of last year, somewhat unexpectantly (neither high picks).

For mine, there just isn't the mix of player improvement that we saw last year. And that has nothing to do with where we got those players in the draft.

Thank Fyfe for Fyfe though.

well, walters played very little footy untill the end of last year, roberton was in and out,a s was crichton.... michie may come in next week, remember we are only at round 8.

i personally believe lower has been great for our team. i actually havent understood why he has even been dropped or subbed this year, i would say he has been equal to snos so far, but thats just me. but even if we say snos was ahead, lower has still been good value.

our issue is with not being able to get our best team on the park, and the fact that yet again our mid tier players like MJ, palmer etc have been unable to tow the line that they need to. the online mid range player that i would say that has improved is kepler. but when we get the rest of our a-graders back, we will improve ten-fold. thats why im not as upset as others, because we while the effort was unacceptable, we are relying on guys like crichton and jvb who arent up to it just yet. im not sure jvb will ever be up to it, but guys like crichton, bollenhagen etc simply need more time to develop in the wafl. instead they are getting thrown to the wolves

 

[Clay Davis]

im simply arguing against clay's "we are not uneathing players this year" theory. you cant unearth players if we havent got them. no matter which way you look at it, we have been decimated by injuries to the point where we are relying on kids with little experience, and at that point, up and down performances are always going to happen.

look im not excusing the performance, it was horrid, against a very ordinary opponent, i also think harves was outcoached which is a horrible effort given he was against cement-head worsfold. but in 10 weeks time when we get a lot of our best players back, we will be dominating teams and everyone will be wondering what the big fuss was about. i cant wait to play the eagles again later on this year. we will murder them by 15 goals and it will be great

Not just unearthing players. Improving on those we have found. Remember the leaps and bounds Duffield took 09-10? Remember Mundy's ascension to the top?

We've had a lot of improvements in the past few years. Aside from Fyfe we seem to be treading water. I want to know why.

 

[Clay Davis]

well, walters played very little footy untill the end of last year, roberton was in and out,a s was crichton.... michie may come in next week, remember we are only at round 8.

i personally believe lower has been great for our team. i actually havent understood why he has even been dropped or subbed this year, i would say he has been equal to snos so far, but thats just me. but even if we say snos was ahead, lower has still been good value.

our issue is with not being able to get our best team on the park, and the fact that yet again our mid tier players like MJ, palmer etc have been unable to tow the line that they need to. the online mid range player that i would say that has improved is kepler. but when we get the rest of our a-graders back, we will improve ten-fold. thats why im not as upset as others, because we while the effort was unacceptable, we are relying on guys like crichton and jvb who arent up to it just yet. im not sure jvb will ever be up to it, but guys like crichton, bollenhagen etc simply need more time to develop in the wafl. instead they are getting thrown to the wolves

These are excuses. At no point last year did we have our best team on the park. Tarrant, McPharlin and Grover never appeared in the same team, but SNOS stepped up to the plate and performed. Ibbo, Suban, Broughton all were injured in the early part of last year, but others stepped up.

We never had a full squad, yet we found players, we developed players. We have not done it this year.

 

[blue shark]

Need to play Mitchie, Mellington and another ruckmen/kp soon.What happens if we get more injuries?
We are also predictable in the midfield/set-ups, need to go back to hunting in packs like last year and harden the fcuk up.

 

[Lach72]

These are excuses. At no point last year did we have our best team on the park. Tarrant, McPharlin and Grover never appeared in the same team, but SNOS stepped up to the plate and performed. Ibbo, Suban, Broughton all were injured in the early part of last year, but others stepped up.

We never had a full squad, yet we found players, we developed players. We have not done it this year.

I think the injuries were more staggered. We had Grover out but we had Tarrant and Luke. We lost Luke, Tarrant was back. We lost Johnson, SNOS was around. We lost SNOS, Johnson was back. Lose Ballamtyne, Walters came in

And a lot of our midfield drive came from Barlow and Morabito.

Morabito was the big body and pace we could really use and Barlow was just all class. When the ball's going foward, and with skill, it makes the defending easier.

 

[Clay Davis]

I think the injuries were more staggered. We had Grover out but we had Tarrant and Luke. We lost Luke, Tarrant was back. We lost Johnson, SNOS was around. We lost SNOS, Johnson was back. Lose Ballamtyne, Walters came in

And a lot of our midfield drive came from Barlow and Morabito.

Morabito was the big body and pace we could really use and Barlow was just all class. When the ball's going foward, and with skill, it makes the defending easier.

Mora had some pretty shit games last year. I love the guy and thought he was very important in a few games, but he wasn't a driving force.

Hell, we thumped both West Coast and North last year without Barlow. IIRC that North game we were missing Barlow, Silvagni, McPharlin and Broughton. We would be using those guys as excuses this year if we lost to them. This year we struggled against North, and IMO, they're a lot worse.

Something has changed in the team, for the worse.

 

[Lach72]

Mora had some pretty shit games last year. I love the guy and thought he was very important in a few games, but he wasn't a driving force.

Hell, we thumped both West Coast and North last year without Barlow. IIRC that North game we were missing Barlow, Silvagni, McPharlin and Broughton. We would be using those guys as excuses this year if we lost to them. This year we struggled against North, and IMO, they're a lot worse.

Something has changed in the team, for the worse.

Agree but I think our midfiled has lacked some variety, making it predictable.

Ballantyne, Barlow, Morabito and Suban, to a lesser extent give us that

 

[sportsmaniac89]

When does the heat come onto the club?

Right ****ing now as far as I'm concerned.

2 of the most pathetic efforts in the past 2 games (rolling over against Richmond and not turning up today) and frankly I'm fed up

Injuries are a bitch and really, there is some curse on the club because we always seem to cop those injuries.

That being said

McPhee - ****ing woeful today
Johnson - Useless
Duffield - Shocker of a game
Anthony - Average (couldn't grab a mark to save himself)

That's just 4 of the 22 I'm naming and shaming.

We don't deserve to finish top 4 based on some of the shit that's occured and what pisses me off even more is the fact that we lost some 3-4 coaches from last year and didn't replenish. That leaves the blame squarely on Steve Rosich who needs to be held accountable for this.

Today was shit and I've gone from genuinely having some hope, to having bloody years taken off my life

 

[TheLoris]

Mora had some pretty shit games last year. I love the guy and thought he was very important in a few games, but he wasn't a driving force.

Hell, we thumped both West Coast and North last year without Barlow. IIRC that North game we were missing Barlow, Silvagni, McPharlin and Broughton. We would be using those guys as excuses this year if we lost to them. This year we struggled against North, and IMO, they're a lot worse.

Something has changed in the team, for the worse.

Nah, cmon Clay...Mora got better as the year went on, he's a big boy but didn't have confidence to put his body on the line until later in the year. He peaked in the final v the Hawks, he would be killing it this year. We smashed WC and North without MB, pretty sure both their seasons were over by then....basically Barlow was our best player while he was up and running. Can't expect too much from him this year but with him and Muz we will give opposition teams a big headache....plus they take the heat off a few others...tags go to Hill/Mundy and MB/Muz run free....

 

[Clay Davis]

Nah, cmon Clay...Mora got better as the year went on, he's a big boy but didn't have confidence to put his body on the line until later in the year. He peaked in the final v the Hawks, he would be killing it this year. We smashed WC and North without MB, pretty sure both their seasons were over by then....basically Barlow was our best player while he was up and running. Can't expect too much from him this year but with him and Muz we will give opposition teams a big headache....plus they take the heat off a few others...tags go to Hill/Mundy and MB/Muz run free....

I agree about Mora, but again, we can't blame his absence for the lack of performance. He was good but not great for a lot of last year.

Ultimately, it is troubling that our poor performance this year is being blamed on injuries to 2nd/3rd year players. Yes, these players improved us last year, but our improvement came from developing them. We need to develop the next set of players to improve again.

Unfortunately, our development coach now has two roles. Is this an effective use of his abilities?