Australia v India, 3rd Test at the MCG Dec 26-30

[PhatBoy]

And then abuse me for it. You're a classy guy.

Saying that an opinion is stupid does not equate to abuse.

If it did, I could just as easily sit here and say ‘slagging off a bloke who’s busting his arse in 35 degree heat and attributing every onfield success he has to pure fluke on the internet where he has no right of reply is abuse and the sign of a classy guy.’

Talk us through his 80 or so test wickets and how ordinary all of them were.

 

[PhatBoy]

Arguing that Cummins isn't any good because of how he gets wickets is like arguing that only batsmen with beautiful shot-making are any good.

Even more baffling is that a bowler in Cummins’ own team who often profits from batsmen trying to belt him because he’s seemingly perceived as a scoring option and easier to get at (Lyon) somehow doesn’t get the same criticism from him.

Not to say I think Lyon’s a lucky bowler or a not so good spinner or anything, but he pretty clearly over the years has been a beneficiary of batsmen trying to take him on after the quicks have applied a lot of pressure

 

[Teen Wolf]

I'd have to have seen us bowl first. Saw less than a session yesterday.
Nice try though.

Ah ok, was pretty sure you weren't a Cummins-is-all-luck guy, hence I thought it was strange to let that comment sail through.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Arguing that Cummins isn't any good because of how he gets wickets is like arguing that only batsmen with beautiful shot-making are any good.

Not even close and you know that.

 

[The Speaker]

Not even close and you know that.

Absolutely close and you know that.

 

[Teen Wolf]

I'm still yet to understand why I'm meant to understand why Justim Langer is the messiah.

Hasn't been dealt the best hands, sure, but I haven't understood this since well before he was coaching Australia. Serious question: has he actually done anything other than coach Perth Scorchers to BBL titles?

I guess we also know (i.e. it's been forced down our throats) that he has a personality.

Worth broadening the question imo. When there's a head coach, a batting coach, a captain, Brad Haddin and a sports psychologist all telling the top 6 how to do their job, might it result in a pile of mixed-messages gumming up the works? Does all this hand-holding just screw up a player's ability to work through problems while they're in the middle on their own?

Both Harris and Head, to me, look Test calibre... until they get out early, which seems to happen when they're caught in two (or more) minds. It's been lampooned, and even backed up by stats in this series, how our tail performs better with the bat. Yet I doubt Cummins and Lyon have been getting more or better "advice".

 

[FredLeDeux]

Rankings don't analyze a players performance other than basic stats... you're not helping yourself.

That's not correct.

For a bowler, the factors are:

Wickets taken and runs conceded
Ratings of the batsmen dismissed (the wicket of a highly-rated ie. quality batsman such as Kohli is worth more than that of a tailender)
The level of run-scoring in the match; bowling figures of 3-50 in a high-scoring match will boost a bowler’s rating more than the same figures in a low-scoring match
Heavy workload; bowlers who bowl a large number of overs in the match get some credit, even if they take no wickets;
The result. Bowlers who take a lot of wickets in a victory receive a bonus. That bonus will be higher for highly rated opposition teams.

 

[windyhill]

You quoted me when I've been proven correct, at 2 runs per over it will indeed be lunch time when they reach a lead of 400.

It seems to have worked for India.

 

[Red Dog Styles]

My dream came true - glorious rain

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[cricketnut14]

only light rain - its set in though

this may make india declare immediately.

 

[EDFL follower]

Lol.... you serious? no it doesn’t mate. It’s the atmosphere not the pitch

Sure but the atmosphere is affected by the pitch. The more moisture in the pitch the more moisture in the atmosphere as it dries. I have opened up on ‘greentops’ And the ball swings and cuts more. You originally said that the pitch doesn’t determine swing but seam only. I disagree.

 

[HBF]

only light rain - its set in though

this may make india declare immediately.

They have enough runs at the moment anyway.

 

[Seagrave_Holmes]

Mods pls delete the last three pages of garbage posted in this thread. Thanks

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Whatever runs Head makes he gets out in the worst ways. Just another kid brought up in the T20 era.

Actually lets stick with him to keep him away from that form of the game.

The contemporary Australian batsman simply doesn't have the mindset to stand out there for an entire session, let alone a day, and guts it out. Head seems to get to a stage where suddenly he decides to stop playing the ball on it's merits and starts preconceiving shots, i.e. T20 mentality. His mode of dismissal in the 1st innings was poor in that he got absolutely everything wrong. He wasn't playing the ball served up to him, he was playing the shot he'd already decided to play.

I'd like to think Head could make a Test batsman but, let's face it, are we ever surprised when he gets out? That's how I judge a quality Test batsman, one who values his wicket and when he is dismissed, you are genuinely surprised when he falls. I don't get that feeling with Head. He has a lot of hard work to do, tightening up his defence and making bowlers work for his wicket.

 

[The Swans Blog]

He must have been pissed last night. No worries, cricket seemingly makes my ignore list grow.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Bradesmaen

I agree with a lot of what you say and admire that you stand up to the masses, but I really think you're wrong about Cummins. He was excellent yet again yesterday and I don't think his wickets can be called trash at all. The Kohli one in particular required him to set him up for that shot, and yes, while Kohli got sucked in to playing it straight to the fielder, Cummins bowled brilliantly to create the bad shot.

I also think back to the Cape Town Test when Cummins bowled 53 overs and was literally the only guy who looked remotely interested on the 4th morning when everybody else looked like they were on their death bed. And then in the fourth test, when everybody else had thrown in the towel and he had no support (even from Sayers who I think got thrown into the wolves in a horrible situation and deserves another opportunity), he took nine wickets with excellent line's that drew mistakes from the batsmen. Cummins is a genuine leader and workhorse bowler who can execute a plan better than any bowler has in Australian cricket for quite some time.

And while I agree, that he was gifted a lot of games early on, he has more than earned his place in the team at the moment and is Australia's most reliable bowler. And while that might not mean much at the moment, I think it's good to admire what we have rather than get frustrated at what we don't have. There are plenty more things to be annoyed at within Australian cricket than Patty who is an excellent bowler and seems like a genuinely nice guy amongst a team full of tossers.

 

[Bradesmaen]

I could bowl 53 overs and look remotely interested... doesn't mean I'm a good bowler.

 

[ChampTurboBucko]

I could bowl 53 overs and look remotely interested... doesn't mean I'm a good bowler.

Yeah because that was definitely the main point of his comment.

Give it up, you are just embarrassing yourself.

 

[swanssince2002]

2 years later and I'm still angry at how the Channel 9 commentators basically mocked Renshaw in Sydney for playing like how a test opener should play. They just wanted every batsmen to be aggressive as David Warner. Thats when I knew he wasn't part of the boys club. Grrrr

 

[PhatBoy]

I could bowl 53 overs and look remotely interested... doesn't mean I'm a good bowler.

No, but taking 80 wickets at 24 without the luxury of the new ball and regularly dismissing the best players in the opposing team with good deliveries during good spells would make you a good bowler.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

I could bowl 53 overs and look remotely interested... doesn't mean I'm a good bowler.

I don't want to come across like I'm trying to diminish your opinion, I'm not - but you don't think an average of 24 and a strike rate of below 50 (after this test) is impressive? Particularly when nobody else in Australian cricket is coming close to his level of productivity at the moment.

I think he is a genuinely accurate and intelligent bowler which is something Australian cricket does not possess.

 

[ChampTurboBucko]

No, but taking 80 wickets at 24 without the luxury of the new ball and regularly dismissing the best players in the opposing team with good deliveries during good spells would make you a good bowler.

Naaaah mate all 80 of his wickets were just good fortune, bad shots off shit balls. If it was Brades running in and bowling for us he'd have 160 wickets at 12.

 

[Bradesmaen]

I don't want to come across like I'm trying to diminish your opinion, I'm not - but you don't think an average of 24 and a strike rate of below 50 (after this test) is impressive? Particularly when nobody else in Australian cricket is coming close to his level of productivity at the moment.

I think he is a genuinely accurate and intelligent bowler which is something Australian cricket does not possess.

Is well above that versus the top and middle order batsmen. He's not an intelligent bowler. Hard working yes.. but so is Peter Siddle.

 

[PhatBoy]

Cummins has taken the wicket of five different batsmen four times (the most he has dismissed anyone).
Those batsmen:
Kohli, Amla, Markram, Root, Du Plessis

Just for effect, of the 3 batsmen he’s dismissed three times, two of them are De Villiers and De Kock.
This isn’t someone who has profited from mopping up the dregs. These are a who’s who of the best batsmen alive.
53 per cent of his wickets are caught behind or bowled/lbw, virtually the same breakdown as Hazlewood - who again has the luxury of always getting the new ball. Dale Steyn, the best fast bowler since Malcolm Marshall - and one could make the argument of all time - also has a similar breakdown, and again, he gets the luxury of the new ball.

Short of posting a video of each Cummins wicket through his career and talking us through it frame by frame as to why it was a fluke, there is nothing left to debate.

 

[smasha]

I have said this before but Cummins is the first player I’d pick for the Australian test team,the next would be Smith.