Review Autopsy Thread: Round 1 Adelaide v Hawthorn

[spotthedot]

no one to lift us?

in my personal view...we were simply out coached (once again) AND we had no-one who stood up to try and win us the game. bruce and hale...showed they are far from game winners. burgers...went missing when we needed someone to stand up. please tell me learned hawks fans why we dont have anyone who can do this ie stand up and be counted when the going gets tough!

 

[Dixie Flatline]

I'll go against the grain with respect to Franklin's frees he gave away. The vast majority of the frees called against him were called correctly.

He still doesn't know how to tackle a player. He often starts high (ie. neck-high or even higher) and then adjusts, but the umpire sees the initial high contact and blows the whistle. Franklin then gets frustrated because he thinks he's tackling correctly.

There's certainly an element of Franklin's reputation preceding him because the umpires don't cut him the same slack as they might another player, but he doesn't make it easy for himself not to concede frees.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So the excuse for the Clarkson apologists this week is: It's Round 1.

I look back to last year and still wish we lost to Richmond. Maybe then, all hell really would've broken loose and we'd have a new coach. Like about 10 players, Clarkson is living off the petrol tickets earned by 2008.

This is our 5 years up in the cycle. We should be dominating sides like Adelaide, regardless of the venue. A 50 point turn around from a team that 'apparently' is Collingwood's main rival is unacceptable. Maybe under Peter Schwab's Hawthorn, but not under any other coach. The apologists use our proud history to whack the nah sayers. Well if you think Kennedy or Jeans would cop something like yesterday fade out for near on 3 years, then I suggest you know little about this football club.

Fact is, losing doesn't sting these guys enough. I'd rather have blokes doing an Ablett post game than standing there having a friendly chat. Losing is NEVER acceptable. That's a losers attitude.

All preseason we have heard the party lines about the players being hungry. Yesterday, a team of kids were more hungry than blokes who won a Premiership just 3 years ago. We picked an 'experienced' side to deal with the pressure of the 20 year party, but it was that experience that let us down when it mattered most. Again, like the last 3 years. We are a flat track bully side, nothing more.

Over to you apologists and TAITA for a personal attack.

Utter rubbish.

For starters Adelaide will be a Top 6 team in 2011, of that I've got little doubt.

Secondly, who are you to suggest that the players don't feel the loss?

Thirdly, you're taking the result of ONE game and making generalisations about the entire list and club for the rest of the year. That's just ludicrous.

It's got nothing to do with being Clarkson apologists( We all know he's under the pump), it's got to do with having a bit of an understanding of football, and in this case that not all clubs will come out in Rnd 1 and tick every box(in fact most don't).
Match fitness is still building in some players, and I have no doubt that the decision making is sure to improve from the sometimes rusty efforts of last night, over the coming weeks.

Some of you guys want to jump ship after one game, you want coaches dumped, and gameplans changed......and I can only wonder if you've ever played the game.

 

[Symons]

I think we all feel so frustrated and disappointed because we came gunning out of the blocks. If we hadn't broken away in the second quarter, then maybe it wouldn't feel so much like it had been our match to lose.

Before we went into it, despite our hopes for a good pre-season, there were two things strongly niggling. 1) Adelaide in Adelaide and 2) No Hodge.

After seeing the game, what worries me is the strain the gameplan seems to put on the players. Sure, it's Round 1 - but after such a "great pre-season", we shouldn't have run out of legs in the 4Q. We definitely shouldn't have run out of legs with a full bench and a fresh-legged sub, especially as they'd had a couple of injuries, including a sub in the first quarter.

Problem is, flooding and continually playing on instead of taking the time to set the next kick up is tiring. Sure, it throws the other team but if you're bushed by 3Q, what's the point? Or maybe it's a tactic that would work for the first half, but then you need to bulk up the defence. Allowing balls to float over the midfield and have several Crows players just waiting to roll it through the posts is just not funny - and for the lads on the pitch, it must've been devastating.

Savage, Shiels and Suckling all proved their worth tonight. I thought Savage was exceptional, Shiels played a solid game and Suckling has a glorious boot. I'm very pleased that Roughie kicked a couple as well - hopefully that'll do his confidence some good. I thought Young's kicking was great, and it was good to see him tearing it up again.

Felt a bit for Buddy, as everyone kept citing 2.6 as if he'd had plenty of easy chances, when the reality is that if he'd have converted most of those points, they'd have been wonder goals - and 6 points kept us in the game for a while. You could point fingers at everyone's goal kicking (e.g. Rioli's). I think it's more worrying that he didn't take more clean marks to have a proper set shot.

Renouf's kicking has got to the point of ridiculousness. I know it's his primary job to ruck, but you'd expect a premiership AFL player to actually be able to kick.

I think lickmerocks has a point - Burgers came good later on, but he chopped the ball up several times in the first quarter.

Overall, there are positives....and it is first game back, and it is a first game interstate...at Football Park, no less. I just hope we don't rue the points we lost here later in the season. The last couple of years we've been looking at the ladder and thinking, "What if we hadn't lost that game?" - and I hope this isn't a case of 'the points that got away.'

 

[Symons]

double post

 

[Brown Blood]

The only saving grace about last night is it happened at adelaide (& I didn't see it live) & the umpiring no doubt did cost us.

That said it really was a disaster - we had worst umpiring in the first half yet still got to 30 points up, we then dominated the start of the third qtr - hit the post a few times and then rolled over & went out with hardly a whimper.

Yes we had a few players out but so did they and they lost others through the game.

The real concern was seeing senior players like lewis, roughy, gilham, osborne, bruce, birchall, renouf - make simple basic mistakes, panic under pressure or worse barely put in - this doesn't augur well for the year.

The only bright spots I came away with was the form of young guys like shiels & savage (lets bring a few more in) & seeing young & laddo back to form.

The new play on game plan obviously needs lots of work - poorly executed attacks cost us goals and then led to too many turnovers gifting them with easy ones. We also don't seem to have to have the fitness to play it.

I just hope we can turn it around it - I don't want to see the club doing a scum and sacrificing a year to justify bringing in a new coach!

That said clarko must act - review the game plan & put the players on notice- I will be very annoyed if we don't make at least 4 changes next week.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Actually I'll disagree here.

I believe Sewell pulled out of a contest very early into the game, will have to see the replay to confirm this. However I'm not even opposed to players doing that, while we all like to praise players for their courage having a player out concussed over 1 loose ball does our team no favours. Apologies if I'm wrong, just from what I remember very early on (Like first few minutes).

Also I'm very disappointed in Lewis. His first 3 quarters or so he did an excellent job on Johncock but towards the end he just started throwing himself at players with the intention of inflicting pain rather than impacting a contest. While 3/4 isn't bad if Lewis is our vice captain he should've stood up and held the team together rather than getting angry and frustrated.

Yep, Adelaide player got to the ball first, and ran (Selwood style) with the head down. Sewell backed off enough for the other player to run 'over' him and lay the tackle without giving away the free.

I thought it was smart play from Sewell, but sadly very indicative of the way the AFL's intentions (less head contact), and rule-changing effects (players look for head contact) differ wildly.

 

[HAWKSFAN]

We are pretenders, same crap different year. Clarko gawn.

Need a game day coach...Clarko had no clue...Renouf, 3rd tier ruck best...Bailey, c'mon down...

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

I'll go against the grain with respect to Franklin's frees he gave away. The vast majority of the frees called against him were called correctly.

He still doesn't know how to tackle a player. He often starts high (ie. neck-high or even higher) and then adjusts, but the umpire sees the initial high contact and blows the whistle. Franklin then gets frustrated because he thinks he's tackling correctly.

There's certainly an element of Franklin's reputation preceding him because the umpires don't cut him the same slack as they might another player, but he doesn't make it easy for himself not to concede frees.

It's not the free kicks gave against Franklin......... Quite Correct.

Its the fact they always seem to see him do the wrong thing and FAIL TO SEE THE FREES HE DESERVES! Thats is the issues.....

I think James Hird had this issue for a while as a player and he went the FOOTY SHOW & had a STAB @ UMPIRES. Yeah he had to apologize, but it worked foir him!

The club needs to address the issues!

 

[Dixie Flatline]

It's not the free kicks gave against Franklin......... Quite Correct.

Its the fact they always seem to see him do the wrong thing and FAIL TO SEE THE FREES HE DESERVES! Thats is the issues.....

I think James Hird had this issue for a while as a player and he went on and had the FOOTY SHOW STAB @ THEM. Yeah he had to apologize, but it worked foir him!

The club needs to address the issues!

It's true he isn't umpired to the same standard as ordinary mortals playing the game. I don't know what the club could do to rectify the problem. They've hired an ex-umpire to provide input, but on the evidence of last night, it's difficult to see an improvement.

Then again, with the ferals at AAMI Stadium, the umpires were probably thinking about getting out of that town with their hides intact than umpiring in a "fair and balanced" manner.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

In the last, we had lost our ability to run, and were relying on long bombs to the forward line.

With Franklin so poor in the air, and Roughead up against Rutten - Hale was left forward as a marking target who should have had the advantage against Stevens. Instead he rarely made it to the drop of the ball anyway.

Lewis went into the middle late in the 3rd - from that moment on Johncock became dangerous and the Crows looked a different side.

I think we used up too much of Sewell and Mitchell in the first half - they barely had a breather at all, whilst Burgoyne also played the majority of the time on the ball.

In the second half, it was left to Lewis, Shiels, Savage and Rioli to play the majority of the midfield time. Coupled with a tiring Renouf they eventually lost their way.

Adding Hodge to that midfield mix (even as a 'super sub') would have probably allowed Sewell and Mitchell to extend their dominance further into the 3rd, or possibly even the last quarter.

The problem with recalling Bailey, is he's likely to only be able to play 40-50 minutes in the ruck. Hale can't play 50 minutes there (and up forward), so you would need to bring in two taller players if Renouf goes out. Renouf's ability to go for 70+ minutes is still needed, but we can't lose the run by carrying 3 rucks (unless Franklin goes running and Hale/Bailey and Roughead play as our Key Forwards)

 

[TAITA]

Yep, Adelaide player got to the ball first, and ran (Selwood style) with the head down. Sewell backed off enough for the other player to run 'over' him and lay the tackle without giving away the free.

I thought it was smart play from Sewell, but sadly very indicative of the way the AFL's intentions (less head contact), and rule-changing effects (players look for head contact) differ wildly.

Players are going to have to take some responsibility for their own duty of care to themselves at some point.

Joel Selwood has led the free kick count since his debut by 'leading with his head' - sure it's gutsy and is the sort of thing coaches love, not to mention a great tactic, but at some point two players are going to dive kamikaze-like at each other with horrific consequences. Didn't see Friday's game so I don't know whether the incident was similar.

The AFL has actually made the situation far more dangerous than it was on that one.

Was astounded that Bateman was free kicked for the Davis incident - if anything he turned and tried to avoid the collision as much as possible.

 

[Thaihawk]

A lot of posters seem to question whether some players earned their money. My question is did our Umpire consultant earn his?

If he is to be beneficial, he should review the frees against with all players concerned. There will be some umpire errors. From my lounge in Thailand, I felt the Crows got the soft ones and ours were called play-on. However, where it was the fault of the player, the situation should be addressed.

 

[TwoBeaus]

Hale...almost as good as Skipper.

Bruce ......clanger king.

Blowing wads into sheets

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Pelchen and our list management starts to come into question for mine.

I'd drop Renouf on last night's game, but there is no-one ready to replace him, so he'll get another charity ride series of games, when he should be learning how to play footy at BH.

And before the excuses come out - we all knew Bailey was unlikely to get much game time this year and that Lowden and Grimley weren't ready.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Glad someone mentioned that free kick against Bateman....that was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen on the football field.

If that is the standard for giving out frees, I expect to see players diving head first at people's legs week in, week out in order to draw a free for high contact.

What a joke of a decision that was.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Pelchen and our list management starts to come into question for mine.

I'd drop Renouf on last night's game, but there is no-one ready to replace him, so he'll get another charity ride series of games, when he should be learning how to play footy at BH.

What the?

Is it Pelchen's job to get players ready for Rnd 1?

 

[Paul007]

Was astounded that Bateman was free kicked for the Davis incident - if anything he turned and tried to avoid the collision as much as possible.

In a night of rubbish umpiring that was one of the worst, Changa should have dropped the knee as he got busted for it anyway.

 

[TwoBeaus]

Pelchen and our list management starts to come into question for mine.

I'd drop Renouf on last night's game, but there is no-one ready to replace him, so he'll get another charity ride series of games, when he should be learning how to play footy at BH.

And before the excuses come out - we all knew Bailey was unlikely to get much game time this year and that Lowden and Grimley weren't ready.

Starts? I think the jury has already handed the decision down. Guilty!

 

[TAITA]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who could shed some light on Clarkson's role in the box last night (after coaching from the boundary for most of last season).

He seemed almost detached from it all, without a headset or laptop in sight - infact that detached if you put a beer in one hand and a ponger in the other, it could have been me.

Some new variation perhaps?

 

[Southern Urchins]

Utter rubbish.

For starters Adelaide will be a Top 6 team in 2011, of that I've got little doubt.

That is utter rubbish. Name your wager and I'll gladly accept. Let's put our existence on this site on the line?

Secondly, who are you to suggest that the players don't feel the loss?

Mitchell was the only one I saw with a look of death on his face walking off the ground. Many others were standing around having a chat with their opponent, Shiels was even having a laughing.

Thirdly, you're taking the result of ONE game and making generalisations about the entire list and club for the rest of the year. That's just ludicrous.

Remind me how 2009 and 2010 panned out? It is one result for this season. But its a familar tale of having a game by the scruff of the neck (Geelong x3, Western Bulldogs, Port Adelaide just to name a few glaring ones) and folding under pressure late in the game.

It's got nothing to do with being Clarkson apologists( We all know he's under the pump), it's got to do with having a bit of an understanding of football, and in this case that not all clubs will come out in Rnd 1 and tick every box(in fact most don't).

Do you think he coaches well on matchdays? Didn't even have direct communication with the bench. Didn't move Hale. Didn't man Johncock up late to name a few. Why does his game plan continue to leave us exposed out the back? Why the inability to go man on man when under pressure or slow the play down? Why doesn't a forward line that is so potent work? Why is Renouf again being run off his legs?

Match fitness is still building in some players, and I have no doubt that the decision making is sure to improve from the sometimes rusty efforts of last night, over the coming weeks.

The same players wait for Buddy, Hodge or Mitchell to win us the game. Be it Round 1 or Round 21. Again, this has been happening for 3 years. If its match fitness, why were the younger Crows running on top of the ground late? Fitness doesn't affect glaring disposal errors in 2nd and 3rd quarters.

Some of you guys want to jump ship after one game, you want coaches dumped, and gameplans changed......and I can only wonder if you've ever played the game.

Ah, the Liam Pickering argument when he's run out of fact. I'm not a professional footballer. But I dare say when I did play, I was able to kick the footy a little better than 1 Mr Renouf when 30 metres out from goal. As for jumping ship, thats ridiculous. I'm just sick of losing and sick of excuses. We just want the old Clarkson back who didn't accept anything less than 100% and made example of some big names who didn't play the way he wanted. There are plenty of blokes that did a lot for this club in some very dark days that didn't get the same chances that some of the under performers do since the Premiership. Ladson, Osborne, Birchall, Gilham and Bateman just to name a few.

Regardless of my talent on the field or coaching prowess (yeah right), I thought I was in the top box of the Presidents diagram and holder of the No.1 jumper??? So my opinion should matter to all concerned at the club, like the other No.1 jumper holders

 

[Miss_Hawk_Fan]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who could shed some light on Clarkson's role in the box last night (after coaching from the boundary for most of last season).

He seemed almost detached from it all, without a headset or laptop in sight - infact that detached if you put a beer in one hand and a ponger in the other, it could have been me.

Some new variation perhaps?

I did wonder the same thing? It looked as though he didnt want to be there really as the coach.

Wheres Paul Johnson at? Fit or Injured?

 

[TAITA]

I did wonder the same thing? It looked as though he didnt want to be there really as the coach.

Wheres Paul Johnson at? Fit or Injured?

Injured.

 

[Southern Urchins]

What the?

Is it Pelchen's job to get players ready for Rnd 1?

No, it's Pelchen's job to fill the holes on our list. If not, then go for the best available young talent.

Our drafting/trading has been less than a 20% hit during each period. Trade picks away by all means, but actually fill the vacancies or recruit kids.

Key defender anyone?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

That is utter rubbish. Name your wager and I'll gladly accept. Let's put our existence on this site on the line?

Have a look at their list, and the amount of home games they play.

Regardless, I'm not going to bet my existence on here with this username with you.

Mitchell was the only one I saw with a look of death on his face walking off the ground. Many others were standing around having a chat with their opponent, Shiels was even having a laughing.

So what. They are human. Perhaps you want to see them kicking the turf or starting a punch on with an opponent, and then you'll truly think they have felt the loss.

Me, I'll look at what they were doing when the game was there to be won. And I honestly can't fault their endeavour. Disposal and decision aking was our biggest let down.

Remind me how 2009 and 2010 panned out? It is one result for this season. But its a familar tale of having a game by the scruff of the neck (Geelong x3, Western Bulldogs, Port Adelaide just to name a few glaring ones) and folding under pressure late in the game.

2009 and 2010 hold little relevance to last nights game. If you're going to draw on the frustrations of those years as some sort of rod for your argument, then you may as well throw in 2005 and 2006 as well.

2011 is a new year, with a whole new set of concerns. And with 1 game being played, we only have one game to reference.
I'll wait until Rnd 5 before I start throwing around judgement calls on where we're falling down.

Do you think he coaches well on matchdays? Didn't even have direct communication with the bench. Didn't move Hale. Didn't man Johncock up late to name a few. Why does his game plan continue to leave us exposed out the back? Why the inability to go man on man when under pressure or slow the play down? Why doesn't a forward line that is so potent work? Why is Renouf again being run off his legs?

See above.

Clarkson is under no illusions as to how important this year is, and indeed, the start.
I'll wait until we have a bigger part of the jigsaw in front of me before I start picking out the pieces that I think dont belong.

The same players wait for Buddy, Hodge or Mitchell to win us the game. Be it Round 1 or Round 21. Again, this has been happening for 3 years. If its match fitness, why were the younger Crows running on top of the ground late? Fitness doesn't affect glaring disposal errors in 2nd and 3rd quarters.

Match fitness is a completely different level all together, and to me that was what a few of our guys were lacking. In the coming weeks we'll run out games much better. Adelaide were helped by younger legs, and the crowd which gives them an almost adrenaline-like shot of belief and energy. They didn't completely dominate us with run, they just continued to take their chances, while we kept squandering forward forays. The little gimme's over the top also didn't help.

Ah, the Liam Pickering argument when he's run out of fact. I'm not a professional footballer. But I dare say when I did play, I was able to kick the footy a little better than 1 Mr Renouf when 30 metres out from goal. As for jumping ship, thats ridiculous. I'm just sick of losing and sick of excuses. We just want the old Clarkson back who didn't accept anything less than 100% and made example of some big names who didn't play the way he wanted. There are plenty of blokes that did a lot for this club in some very dark days that didn't get the same chances that some of the under performers do since the Premiership. Ladson, Osborne, Birchall, Gilham and Bateman just to name a few.

You've given him 1 game. 1 game.

Regardless of my talent on the field or coaching prowess (yeah right), I thought I was in the top box of the Presidents diagram and holder of the No.1 jumper??? So my opinion should matter to all concerned at the club, like the other No.1 jumper holders

Opinions are like assholes....