Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[yebiga]

Im interested in this take cos its something i want to beleive in and i dont care if it has any semblence of fact. It feels right in my bones. I want to believe.


and thus this is how the cult of yebiga started.

Out of a possible 200 countries in the world a mere third have announced Russian sanctions, and the balance - constituting the majority of the world population are part of Yebiga's cult!

Well ok, I expected at some point you would make this personal - it's become de rigueur

 

[Zidane98]

Out of a possible 200 countries in the world a mere third have announced Russian sanctions, and the balance - constituting the majority of the world population are part of Yebiga's cult!

Well ok, I expected at some point you would make this personal - it's become de rigueur

What sort of sanctions do you believe Bhutan exactly will bring against Russia for exampel? Namibia?


The countries that Russia needs most are the ones that are strongly sanctioning it. Painting the fact multiple smaller nations that trade little with Russia as a win is ridiculous.


Look at the far east of Russia. Heavily reliant on air travel. Russia simply cannot provide this without using western aircraft, western expertise and western spare parts to keep their aircraft running. Never mind the fact that over half of Russia's commercial airline fleet are actually owned by private western companies on leases that involve Russian airlines having to return them by 28th March.

This is just one example. Russia is heavily reliant on western technology. Half their society won't be able to function without the latest galaxy / iphones and associated google play / itunes stores.

 

[yebiga]

What sort of sanctions do you believe Bhutan exactly will bring against Russia for exampel? Namibia?


The countries that Russia needs most are the ones that are strongly sanctioning it. Painting the fact multiple smaller nations that trade little with Russia as a win is ridiculous.


Look at the far east of Russia. Heavily reliant on air travel. Russia simply cannot provide this without using western aircraft, western expertise and western spare parts to keep their aircraft running. Never mind the fact that over half of Russia's commercial airline fleet are actually owned by private western companies on leases that involve Russian airlines having to return them by 28th March.

This is just one example. Russia is heavily reliant on western technology. Half their society won't be able to function without the latest galaxy / iphones and associated google play / itunes stores.

Yes but there is the other side of it too. Europeans can't eat galaxy phones

 

[Malifice]

Out of a possible 200 countries in the world a mere third have announced Russian sanctions, and the balance - constituting the majority of the world population are part of Yebiga's cult!

Slapped with a wave of sanctions by the West, Russia has zoomed past countries like Iran and North Korea to become the most-sanctioned nation in the world, according to Castellum.ai, a global sanctions-tracking database.

Russia, which now has over 5,500 sanctions against it, is facing global condemnation for its full-scale invasion of Ukraine.




In 4 charts: How Russia became world's most-sanctioned country - Times of India

 

[Malifice]

how does the importance of oil in the iraq war discredit the view that hydrogen and green evs will replace oil in the near future?

Mate, 'hydrogen and green evs' are not a strategic resource vital for economies to function and wars to be won.

You cant think what you want, but you're wrong here.

 

[nut]

There was a USA Col. McGregor espousing much the same views to Tucker Carlson a few days ago.
There is the Zerohedge site which pulls articles from different sources with similar views - also the site: Strategic Culture - who appear to be unusually opposed to this.
But in reality - whilst not popular - I expect it is largely the consensus view amongst geo-political students but many dare not challenge the war-game being played out right now.

You may wish to watch this brief video where realpolitiks is revealed

Remember people challenging WMDs

 

[Malifice]

Remember people challenging WMDs

There never were any. It was a fabricated story so the Yanks could secure ME oil supplies.

And it was wrong.

Just like the Nazi pretext fabricated by Putin is wrong.

 

[Chief]

Slapped with a wave of sanctions by the West, Russia has zoomed past countries like Iran and North Korea to become the most-sanctioned nation in the world, according to Castellum.ai, a global sanctions-tracking database.

Russia, which now has over 5,500 sanctions against it, is facing global condemnation for its full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

View attachment 1341997


In 4 charts: How Russia became world's most-sanctioned country - Times of India

Wait.... where's Saudi Arabia on that scale?

 

[CD Xbow]

There never were any. It was a fabricated story so the Yanks could secure ME oil supplies.

And it was wrong.

Just like the Nazi pretext fabricated by Putin is wrong.

I was surprised they didn't manage to 'find' some.
It's interesting to try to unpick the story, a lot of US analysts misinterpreted data, whether they did that as part of a deliberate fabrication, group think or seeing what you want, I really don't know. Certainly someone high up in the administration must have started the yarn, then decided to let it run. Eager analysts then found all the data they needed.
At the time I thought it strange that Saddam would risk toying with WMD after he had been given a spanking in the first gulf war.
When you think of the damage it caused, the blowback from it (ISIS) and the destruction of faith Americans have in their government, it has to be the greatest disaster of US policy ever.

 

[Crankyhawk]

A few good pieces - current and former - regarding the historical elements of the situation. I added Mearsheimer's 1990 piece for an academic understanding, but also to demonstrate how wrong he is on the liberalisation of Europe. It's definitely worth 30 minutes to sit and read them to understand how different thinkers approach the subject.

Anne Applebaum The Reason Putin Would Risk War (2022)

Michael McFaul and Robert Person What Putin Fears Most (2022)

John Mearsheimer
Why John Mearsheimer Blames the US for the Crisis in Ukraine (2022)
Why The Ukraine Crisis is the West's Fault (2014)
Why We Will Soon Miss The Cold War (1990)

An analysis of Mearshimer's views

John Mearsheimer and the dark origins of realism

Rage aimed at the eminent international relations scholar reflects liberal frustration over the West's limited power to prevent Russia's war in Ukraine.

www.newstatesman.com

though what we are seeing is a not great power (Russia) making decisions believing it is a great power.

 

[Malifice]

I was surprised they didn't manage to 'find' some.
It's interesting to try to unpick the story, a lot of US analysts misinterpreted data, whether they did that as part of a deliberate fabrication, group think or seeing what you want, I really don't know. Certainly someone high up in the administration must have started the yarn, then decided to let it run. Eager analysts then found all the data they needed.
At the time I thought it strange that Saddam would risk toying with WMD after he had been given a spanking in the first gulf war.
When you think of the damage it caused, the blowback from it (ISIS) and the destruction of faith Americans have in their government, it has to be the greatest disaster of US policy ever.

It was a deliberate lie.

 

[nut]

I was surprised they didn't manage to 'find' some.
It's interesting to try to unpick the story, a lot of US analysts misinterpreted data, whether they did that as part of a deliberate fabrication, group think or seeing what you want, I really don't know. Certainly someone high up in the administration must have started the yarn, then decided to let it run. Eager analysts then found all the data they needed.
At the time I thought it strange that Saddam would risk toying with WMD after he had been given a spanking in the first gulf war.
When you think of the damage it caused, the blowback from it (ISIS) and the destruction of faith Americans have in their government, it has to be the greatest disaster of US policy ever.

Have a read up on David Kelly ….

 

[Osho]

The state of media reporting on the war is poor. If you're looking for critical opinions, counterpoints, that is. Some little pockets exist. They are getting littler.

Hedges has been banging on for years about the war - industrial complex. He is now nearly completely marganalised. But here is something that provides some context to the Democrats shift in the last few decades.



Consortium News has come under fire for some of its Ukraine articles. I think it's still hanging on by a thread. This recent article mentions things that seem unbelievable if you only watch corporate MM. Enjoy, or froth away.

We've Reached Peak Zelensky. Now What?

After the farcical, almost psychotic over-promotion, Robert Freeman says the only place for the Ukrainian president to go from here is down. And, that is surely coming. Soon. By Robert Freeman Common Dreams When the president of the poorest, most corrupt nation in Europe is feted with multi

consortiumnews.com

 

[Chief]

Most corrupt nation in Europe??

 

[Chief]

Come on Yebiga.

We know Putin is only heroically intervening in Ukraine to take down the Bio-labs run by the Satanic Padeo enablers (the 'International financiers, Hollywood and media elites, banking cabals' etc) where 'they' have been cloning children for sexual cannibalism use by the 'elites' (leftists) as part of 'their' efforts to impose Socialism on us via Agenda 21.



This is what the cookers, anti-vaxxers and conspiracy nutters actually think (thanks to the Kremlin troll farms of course).

What happened to the bio-labs?

 

[Crankyhawk]

I agree he can switch it off (although he pisses off his Oligarchs when he does so), and Im not supporting Putin. Im simply saying Putin/ Russia has been supplying Oil and Gas to the EU, more than any other nation, NATO or no NATO.

This has been brewing for a while. I've said on here before the War in Iraq was for the Americans to seize the only other alternative energy supplies into the EU (whom the war was targeted at).

The Europeans basically have two options for energy. The middle east (so US controlled) or Russia.

Hitler learnt the hard way that [no oil] = [lost war], so control of EU energy supplies has a massive strategic impact (in addition to economic impact, due to the size of the EU's economy).

Question- which war in Iraq? I thought Saddam unilaterally invaded Kuwait in 1990 so deserved an ass kicking at the time

 

[footyfan1978]

For those that know bugger all, which is most people here, you should listen to people involved in the backdrop in Ukraine from Orange Revolution which was the first time one of Putin's puppet was kicked out in 2004 and then he still tried to bring back his puppets for next decade as Ukraine struggled in it's first real attempts in elections more like a democracy which really pissed Putin off.

Listened to this podcast a few days ago and was fascinating listening to this woman that was only a student in the backdrop in last 18 years and eventually was involved deeply in that period on the streets itself. She really can teach many here some important lessons in her lifetime as an adult.

 

[footyfan1978]

Hedges has been banging on for years

quick wiki search...shows he basically another Kremlin propaganda subscriber... worked for RT at one point....


"Christopher Lynn Hedges (born September 18, 1956) is an American journalist, Presbyterian minister, author, and commentator.

In his early career, Hedges worked as a freelance war correspondent in Central America for The Christian Science Monitor, NPR

Hedges produced a weekly column for Truthdig for 14 years until the outlet's hiatus in 2020. His books include War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning (2002), a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award for Nonfiction; American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America (2007); Death of the Liberal Class (2010); and Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt (2012), written with cartoonist Joe Sacco.

Hedges hosted the television program On Contact for RT America from 2016 to 2022.[2][3]"

Look up RT America and...
RT America was a U.S.-based news channel headquartered in Washington, D.C. Owned by TV Novosti and operated by production company T&R Productions,[1] it was a part of the RT network, a global multilingual television news network based in Moscow funded by the Russian government.[2][3][4


Surprise surprise...

 

[Zidane98]

I was surprised they didn't manage to 'find' some.
It's interesting to try to unpick the story, a lot of US analysts misinterpreted data, whether they did that as part of a deliberate fabrication, group think or seeing what you want, I really don't know. Certainly someone high up in the administration must have started the yarn, then decided to let it run. Eager analysts then found all the data they needed.
At the time I thought it strange that Saddam would risk toying with WMD after he had been given a spanking in the first gulf war.
When you think of the damage it caused, the blowback from it (ISIS) and the destruction of faith Americans have in their government, it has to be the greatest disaster of US policy ever.

It was a huge failure of US foreign policy. But nothing like the ridiculous Nazi claims by the Russians. Saddam had previously been guilty of using chemical weapons and killing thousands in Kurdistan. He had attacked Kuwait precipitating the gulf war. Also, the goal of the US wasn't to turn Iraq into the 52nd state of the US either even if their motivations were incorrect to invade.

 

[CD Xbow]

It was a huge failure of US foreign policy. But nothing like the ridiculous Nazi claims by the Russians. Saddam had previously been guilty of using chemical weapons and killing thousands in Kurdistan. He had attacked Kuwait precipitating the gulf war. Also, the goal of the US wasn't to turn Iraq into the 52nd state of the US either even if their motivations were incorrect to invade.

No, they didn't. The fact remains they invaded a country on the basis of a lie and the consequences of that for the US and the world have been terrible. it is a good example of both the 'law of unintended consequences' and the dangers of hubris. Unfortunately, Mr Putin has drank so much of his own bathwater he seems to have forgotten those lessons.

 

[Green Hammer]

No, they didn't. The fact remains they invaded a country on the basis of a lie and the consequences of that for the US and the world have been terrible. it is a good example of both the 'law of unintended consequences' and the dangers of hubris. Unfortunately, Mr Putin has drank so much of his own bathwater he seems to have forgotten those lessons.

Its russia vs NATO with Ukraine used as cannon fodder. Usa does give two hoots if Ukraine is destroyed as long as russia is as well

 

[Chief]

Its russia vs NATO with Ukraine used as cannon fodder.

The Russians should leave and stop playing NATO's game.

 

[Green Hammer]

The Russians should leave and stop playing NATO's game.

Wont happened. The west invented the R2P intervention excuse. Now its come back in their faces. So how far do they want to push this

 

[Chief]

Wont happened. The west invented the R2P intervention excuse. Now its come back in their faces. So how far do they want to push this

So Russia are the problem here? True.

 

[Green Hammer]

So Russia are the problem here? True.

What should be done?