Traded Bailey Smith: 4-way trade: B. Smith (WB) & pick 45 to Geel / pick 38 to Carl / Macrae (WB) to StK / pick 17 & Kennedy (Carl) to WB

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Kobe Gryant said:
Would be worked around the Stengle compo.

Or we'd take the full brunt of Clarry's contract, but give up SFA draft wise.

Future first is off limits for us, as with so many kids in the side next year the pick could genuinely be anything.

It's why we're fine with Stengle going as long as it triggers band 1. Helps us get our deals done, while still protecting the future.
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Full contract indexed up is in the realms of 7.5m over 6 years......

I could stomach a mill a year but Melbourne absolutely would have to retain some financial liability to him
 
Sphynx said:
This seems like a bit of a risk in Geelongs position.

Hawthorn I can understand, they have some young midfield pieces in place.

Geelong are about to embark on a full rebuild in the next few years and im not sure id start here.
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The contract is the only worry.

We get nothing we don't already have from picks in the teens. The only way to make us better is mature players.

But that contract is heinous

Edit: you're talking about smith not Clarry - I don't see a risk for us
 
Sphynx said:
This seems like a bit of a risk in Geelongs position.

Hawthorn I can understand, they have some young midfield pieces in place.

Geelong are about to embark on a full rebuild in the next few years and im not sure id start here.
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Both the Hawks and Tigers we're in the very same postion to where the Cats are now. The Hawks tried to go again by adding Mitchell + O'Meara and the Tigers recently did the same with Taranto + Hopper and all it really did was delay the inevitable rebuild.

I can't stand Geelong but I sure as hell respect them and the fact that they've been able to retool the playing list and be successful for so long you really have to tip your hat them. However all championship runs come to an end at some point and they're definitely about to hit that fork in the road of going again (similar to the 2 teams above) or starting an inevitable rebuild.

The Hawks trying to go again after our failed 4peat attempt set us back 5-6 years and the Tigers might not have finished bottoming out yet with Dusty, Prestia on there last legs and others in Baker, Rioli and Bolton's futures with the club up in the air.

So anyways if the Cats were to land Smith then the jury will definitely be out if they'd end up in the same postion as to where the Hawks were 3-4 years ago and where the Tigers find themselves now. Worth keeping in mind that just like a champion boxer that has gone on one fight too many. The last person to realise this is the boxer himself.
 

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Bugs1977 said:
Both the Hawks and Tigers we're in the very same postion to where the Cats are now. The Hawks tried to go again by adding Mitchell + O'Meara and the Tigers recently did the same with Taranto + Hopper and all it really did was delay the inevitable rebuild.

I can't stand Geelong but I sure as hell respect them and the fact that they've been able to retool the playing list and be successful for so long you really have to tip your hat them. However all championship runs come to an end at some point and they're definitely about to hit that fork in the road of going again (similar to the 2 teams above) or starting an inevitable rebuild.

The Hawks trying to go again after our failed 4peat attempt set us back 5-6 years and the Tigers might not have finished bottoming out yet with Dusty, Prestia on there last legs and others in Baker, Rioli and Bolton's futures with the club up in the air.

So anyways if the Cats were to land Smith then the jury will definitely be out if they'd end up in the same postion as to where the Hawks were 3-4 years ago and where the Tigers find themselves now. Worth keeping in mind that just like a champion boxer that has gone on one fight too many. The last person to realise this is the boxer himself.
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I think it's slightly different to the Hawks in that you brought in trade ins first then that didn't work and you started drafting, which is kind of the reverse to us.

We stopped trading mature players in nearly 4 years ago and have been drafting or trading for kids since. Our problem is the kids aren't standing up and more kids won't solve that.
 
CatToTheFuture said:
I think it's slightly different to the Hawks in that you brought in trade ins first then that didn't work and you started drafting, which is kind of the reverse to us.

We stopped trading mature players in nearly 4 years ago and have been drafting or trading for kids since. Our problem is the kids aren't standing up and more kids won't solve that.
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Without derailing this thread is the reason for this because you haven't totally bottomed out yet? I think Connor O'Sullivan will be great for you guys but outside of he, Sam De Koning and Oliver Dempsey the well is dry in your young player stocks. Max Holmes is obviously the guy you'll be building around but would he and Bailey Smith be enough to go again is the question.
 
Bugs1977 said:
Without derailing this thread is the reason for this because you haven't totally bottomed out yet? I think Connor O'Sullivan will be great for you guys but outside of he, Sam De Koning and Oliver Dempsey the well is dry in your young player stocks. Max Holmes is obviously the guy you'll be building around but would he and Bailey Smith be enough to go again is the question.
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That's not the question at all.

In the past 5 years, we've taken 8 picks in the top 25.

  • Sam De Koning (pick 19)
  • Tanner Bruhn (pick 12)
  • Ollie Henry (pick 16)
  • Max Holmes (pick 20)
  • Toby Conway (pick 24)
  • Mitch Knevitt (pick 25)
  • Jhye Clark (pick 8)
  • Connor O'Sullivan (pick 11)

That's the core we'd be going with, with Dempsey, Humphries, & Neale as later gems, and Miers, Close, Zuthrie, Bowes, Jack Henry, & Stengle* guiding them.

The problem isn't the kids...the problem is that second group who are players coming into their prime who aren't good enough to carry a side to contention.

The idea would be that somebody like Smith and others in his age & quality bracket could thicken the soup of that second group while the youngsters develop.

Smith isn't the instant fix, far from it...but he aids us in an area of need and he (amongst others) can potentially bridge the gap between two eras for us.
 
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Footy Smarts said:
It's hard to see how much bigger roles they could be asked to play.

Conway when picked is playing as lone number 1 ruck. Holmes, Bruhn and Clark are playing as full time inside mids with little support. SDK is our number 1 key defender (or number 1 ruck last week). You'd expect with no Hawkins, Neale will be our full forward.

Most of our issues are coming from having a midfield that is being smashed because our players are either cooked (Stanley and Blicavs), injured (Danger and Guthrie), battlers (Atkins and Bowes) or really young for such key roles (Holmes, Bruhn, Clark, Conway and SDK when he rucks).

Age wise Smith is perfect for us. The question is whether he's actually worth what we'll have to pay.
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Smith's workrate is outstanding and that's what the game is becoming - a player who can cover a lot of ground, at pace. And repeat. That's Smith's forte.

I'd prefer to keep him but I think he's 99% out of the door already. Cats frontrunners based on what I've heard.
 
Kobe Gryant said:
That's not the question at all.

In the past 5 years, we've taken 7 picks in the top 25.

  • Sam De Koning (pick 19)
  • Tanner Bruhn (pick 12)
  • Ollie Henry (pick 16)
  • Max Holmes (pick 20)
  • Toby Conway (pick 24)
  • Mitch Knevitt (pick 25)
  • Jhye Clark (pick 8)
  • Connor O'Sullivan (pick 11)

That's the core we'd be going with, with Dempsey, Humphries, & Neale as later gems, and Miers, Close, Zuthrie, Bowes, Jack Henry, & Stengle* guiding them.

The problem isn't the kids...the problem is that second group who are players coming into their prime who aren't good enough to carry a side to contention.

The idea would be that somebody like Smith and others in his age & quality bracket could thicken the soup of that second group while the youngsters develop.

Smith isn't the instant fix, far from it...but he aids us in an area of need and he (amongst others) can potentially bridge the gap between two eras for us.
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So which one is it then? CatToTheFuture says that your kids aren't standing up yet you're saying that others aren't stepping up. With guys like Hawkins and Dangerfield soon gone then eventually using high end draft collateral to top up can only get you so far by papering over the cracks.

You guys done magnificently to squeeze a premiership out of an ageing playing group but as an outsider looking in I can't help but question the quality of your younger players. As I said earlier we tried to do what you guys did (one last premiership) and failed and at this stage it looks like you guys are trying for one last squeeze which could very well end up setting you back. I guess it's a wait and see but I can't help but feel that I've seen this story before.
 
Bugs1977 said:
Without derailing this thread is the reason for this because you haven't totally bottomed out yet? I think Connor O'Sullivan will be great for you guys but outside of he, Sam De Koning and Oliver Dempsey the well is dry in your young player stocks. Max Holmes is obviously the guy you'll be building around but would he and Bailey Smith be enough to go again is the question.
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There's a lot more than that but I think you're missing the point. More kids will just stymie the development of the kids we have. Someone like Smith IS the rebuild not a separate choice.
 
Bugs1977 said:
So which one is it then? CatToTheFuture says that your kids aren't standing up yet you're saying that others aren't stepping up. With guys like Hawkins and Dangerfield soon gone then eventually using high end draft collateral to top up can only get you so far by papering over the cracks.

You guys done magnificently to squeeze a premiership out of an ageing playing group but as an outsider looking in I can't help but question the quality of your younger players. As I said earlier we tried to do what you guys did (one last premiership) and failed and at this stage it looks like you guys are trying for one last squeeze which could very well end up setting you back. I guess it's a wait and see but I can't help but feel that I've seen this story before.
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It's both. The old guys are falling over and the kids aren't ready. If we don't add some senior support through the midfield to add to the kids we have any rebuild won't work.
 
CatToTheFuture said:
It's both. The old guys are falling over and the kids aren't ready. If we don't add some senior support through the midfield to add to the kids we have any rebuild won't work.
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Bugs1977 said:
So which one is it then? CatToTheFuture says that your kids aren't standing up yet you're saying that others aren't stepping up. With guys like Hawkins and Dangerfield soon gone then eventually using high end draft collateral to top up can only get you so far by papering over the cracks.

You guys done magnificently to squeeze a premiership out of an ageing playing group but as an outsider looking in I can't help but question the quality of your younger players. As I said earlier we tried to do what you guys did (one last premiership) and failed and at this stage it looks like you guys are trying for one last squeeze which could very well end up setting you back. I guess it's a wait and see but I can't help but feel that I've seen this story before.
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Like he said, it's both.

The point is with the vast majority of our quality at either end of the age spectrum (too young or too old) we need players like Smith to steady the ship between eras.

The kids have shown great promise...but they can't carry us until they're ready which will take another couple years.

The old guys have been great servants...but they can't play at the desired level anymore, and many of them haven't for some time.

In the meantime, all we can do is add quality that's old enough to improve the side, but simultaneously young enough to be apart of the next tilt.

Your Hawthorn comparison is lazy, and reeks of someone who hasn't followed us closely over the last few years.

I hardly blame you. I couldn't name everything that's gone on at Hawthorn over the last 4-5 years either, but it's apples and oranges.

The Hawks (rightly) topped up to continue an amazing era, in the pursuit of yet another flag.

They sacrificed all of their draft capital in doing so though, continuing what they had done over the best part of a decade.

That's the opposite of what Geelong have been doing for over 4 years now.
 

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Kobe Gryant said:
Like he said, it's both.

The point is with the vast majority of our quality at either end of the age spectrum (too young or too old) we need players like Smith to steady the ship between eras.

The kids have shown great promise...but they can't carry us until they're ready which will take another couple years.

The old guys have been great servants...but they can't play at the desired level anymore, and many of them haven't for some time.

In the meantime, all we can do is add quality that's old enough to improve the side, but simultaneously young enough to be apart of the next tilt.

Your Hawthorn comparison is lazy, and reeks of someone who hasn't followed us closely over the last few years.

I hardly blame you. I couldn't name everything that's gone on at Hawthorn over the last 4-5 years either, but it's apples and oranges.

The Hawks (rightly) topped up to continue an amazing era, in the pursuit of yet another flag.

They sacrificed all of their draft capital in doing so though, continuing what they had done over the best part of a decade.

That's the opposite of what Geelong have been doing for over 4 years now.
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Maybe a bit harsh to call it a lazy comparison, but smith is everything the new kids don't have and need around them
 
This is the article. Geelong the strongest.

Western Bulldogs midfielder Bailey Smith flies back into Melbourne this weekend after a brief European summer sojourn with Collingwood’s draft hand putting it behind the eight ball in securing him.
Industry sources still believe Geelong has the desire to add a pacy, mature-aged mid and the Surf Coast lifestyle that could attract a player who has spoken about dealing with the intense Melbourne football bubble.

Smith already has a strong connection with the Cotton On brand, which is why cheeky rivals say a move down Princes Highway is almost a done deal.

But any additional services agreement funding at Geelong would be heavily scrutinised by the AFL and would have to stack up from a commercial point of view.

The Magpies’ only selection in the first two rounds of this year’s draft is Hawthorn’s second rounder, which could end up drifting into the 40s.

They could give up a future first-rounder but the Pies are known to be keen on key talls including Victoria’s Whitlock twins in the draft.

Hawthorn remains in the mix and could satisfy the Bulldogs’ desire for a first-round pick, which is currently No. 6.

While the Bulldogs would prefer to keep the 23-year-old next year and beyond, their confidence levels have plummeted the longer the season has rolled on.

The Cats are considered the clubhouse leader, given their need for a midfielder refresh, though he is not the engine-room bull that coach Chris Scott has been craving.

The Dogs continue to chase West Coast intercept marker Tom Barrass, which the Herald Sun revealed in April, with their chase for another key back continuing.

Any first round selection they secure for Smith would be critical given they gave up their 2024 first-rounder to bring in Tasmanian first round pick Ryley Sanders last November

While Barrass knocked back offers from clubs such as Sydney last year, it is believed that he is open to considering what a fresh start would look like.

The Dogs have effectively begun planning for life after Smith, with Ed Richards moving into the midfield while others such as Harvey Gallagher have spent some time in there alongside the likes of Marcus Bontempelli and Tom Liberatore.
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Kobe Gryant said:
That's not the question at all.

In the past 5 years, we've taken 7 picks in the top 25.

  • Sam De Koning (pick 19)
  • Tanner Bruhn (pick 12)
  • Ollie Henry (pick 16)
  • Max Holmes (pick 20)
  • Toby Conway (pick 24)
  • Mitch Knevitt (pick 25)
  • Jhye Clark (pick 8)
  • Connor O'Sullivan (pick 11)


Smith isn't the instant fix, far from it...but he aids us in an area of need and he (amongst others) can potentially bridge the gap between two eras for us.
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IMO this is the thing that might keep him away if anything.
I think Bailey would probably like to be a successful player on top of a super rich one, and I'm not sure that being the guy who helps Geelong not suck, as opposed to the guy who leads a team to a premiership.
 
Jen2310 said:
This is the article. Geelong the strongest.
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Off topic but how do they get away with this nonsense. Laura “the draft is not compromised it’s complex.” Kane. Give me a spell.

The Magpies’ only selection in the first two rounds of this year’s draft is Hawthorn’s second rounder, which could end up drifting into the 40s.
 
Comparing Geelong getting Smith to Hawthorn getting O'Meara and Mitchell or Richmond getting Hopper and Taranto.

Top 25 picks in the previous 5 drafts still on the list:

Geelong (2019-2023): 8 (SDK, Holmes, Bruhn, O Henry, Conway, Knevitt, Clark, O'Sullivan)
Hawthorn (2011-2015): 3 (Hartung, Burton, Lovell)
Richmond (2017-2021): 4 (Balta, Dow, Gibcus, Brown)

The ACL worries me and I'm not sure if he's the right target. But giving up a single first rounder for a 23 year old gun after Geelong's heavy recent investment in the draft makes sense.

It's trying to accelerate the development of our group 25 and under. It's not a hail Mary to try to go again with an old group after you've ignored the draft for many years.
 
Footy Smarts said:
Comparing Geelong getting Smith to Hawthorn getting O'Meara and Mitchell or Richmond getting Hopper and Taranto.

Top 25 picks in the previous 5 drafts still on the list:

Geelong (2019-2023): 8 (SDK, Holmes, Bruhn, O Henry, Conway, Knevitt, Clark, O'Sullivan)
Hawthorn (2011-2015): 3 (Hartung, Burton, Lovell)
Richmond (2017-2021): 4 (Balta, Dow, Gibcus, Brown)

The ACL worries me and I'm not sure if he's the right target. But giving up a single first rounder for a 23 year old gun after Geelong's heavy recent investment in the draft makes sense.

It's trying to accelerate the development of our group 25 and under. It's not a hail Mary to try to go again with an old group after you've ignored the draft for many years.
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You’re going to need a lot more than that mate, you literally had 6 players 33 and older on Friday night
 
Footy Smarts said:
Comparing Geelong getting Smith to Hawthorn getting O'Meara and Mitchell or Richmond getting Hopper and Taranto.

Top 25 picks in the previous 5 drafts still on the list:

Geelong (2019-2023): 8 (SDK, Holmes, Bruhn, O Henry, Conway, Knevitt, Clark, O'Sullivan)
Hawthorn (2011-2015): 3 (Hartung, Burton, Lovell)
Richmond (2017-2021): 4 (Balta, Dow, Gibcus, Brown)

The ACL worries me and I'm not sure if he's the right target. But giving up a single first rounder for a 23 year old gun after Geelong's heavy recent investment in the draft makes sense.

It's trying to accelerate the development of our group 25 and under. It's not a hail Mary to try to go again with an old group after you've ignored the draft for many years.
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You've got 13 blokes over 30 on your list.
It's the greatest cliff we've ever seen.
Plus Scott has a ton of your kids playing at VFL learning bugger all, while he keeps playing blokes like Tuohy and Gary Rohan.

Lol.
 

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Traded Bailey Smith: 4-way trade: B. Smith (WB) & pick 45 to Geel / pick 38 to Carl / Macrae (WB) to StK / pick 17 & Kennedy (Carl) to WB

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