Confirmed Bailey Smith: 4-way trade: B. Smith (WB) & pick 45 to Geel / pick 38 to Carl / Macrae (WB) to StK / pick 17 & Kennedy (Carl) to WB

[Boxhead_31]

You gave up 3 firsts for Cameron so it's no way more.

and got Cameron and 2 2nds back

 

[CatToTheFuture]

vs the guy who was 2 mins away from sending Dunkley to the PSD over Birsbane adding on an extra 4th round swap or some worthless crap

Jeez this is going to be a long trade period

 

[Boxhead_31]

I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 firsts is already the agreed deal.

I would as Geelong would need that F1 for the Cadman trade

 

[FootyLad0]

The usual threats of "Send him to the Pre-Season Draft!" are in full swing.

That's absolutely cultural poison for a club. It upsets players, player managers, the players association, players who would otherwise have thought about coming to your club etc etc.

It's not a "line in the sand" moment, it just tells the entire competition, plus future recruits, that you're going to be a hard place to work in or work with.

If he was contracted and requesting a trade, sure, play hardball. But he's uncontracted - you get the best deal you can and focus on the blokes who want to be there and on making your club a place players want to be.

This, every single year it's trotted out as like some kind of "GOTCHA" but List managers are not BigFooty campaigners.

They actually have a career on the line and it involves as you said appeasing players, player managers, the players association, players who would otherwise have thought about coming to your club etc etc.

You just have to deal with it, every club has and will continue to do so unless the rules or contracts change. Bailey is OOC, so he's just the latest bloke for it to happen to.
Cats picked up Henry and Bruhn like this, they lost Tim Kelly and Jordan Clark like this. Ebbs and flows, swings and roundabouts. Just have to get what you can and move on.

 

[SweatOnMySkin]

No idea why everyones talking about jeremy cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

in here. there's easily enough recent trades for midfielders to see that pick 20ish isnt going to be enough, it's just a question of how much more it takes.

 

[Foxman98]

No idea why everyones talking about jeremy cameron in here. there's easily enough recent trades for midfielders to see that pick 20ish isnt going to be enough, it's just a question of how much more it takes.

Adam Cerra springs to mind best

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Cats current 1st will be a pick of between 22-26 on draft night (collingwoods 1st was 25 last year).

So I feel Geelong will have to throw in their future 1st.

So the trade would be:

Dogs receive: Geelongs 1st(pick 22-26 draft night) and future 1st.

Cats get Dogs 2nd (pick around 35 draft night) and Smith.

Maybe a few late picks for balance.

 

[FootyLad0]

No idea why everyones talking about jeremy cameron in here. there's easily enough recent trades for midfielders to see that pick 20ish isnt going to be enough, it's just a question of how much more it takes.

This is actually some common sense. I'm sure both parties know that 2024 First isn't enough.
I'd be happy to do 2024 First, 2024 Second and 2025 Second but that's just me.

Others may be more averse to give up that much. I'm positive the 2025 First won't be on the table. That'll be the sticking point, "neutrals" coming in to claim it needs to be involved are anything but neutral.

 

[SweatOnMySkin]

there's a whole crapload of mids of varying age profiles and accomplishments over the last few seasons. Cerra, kelly, Bruhn., Hopper, taranto, Dunkley and god knows who else I've forgotten.
Put SMith wherever you liek in that list and if you'e being realistic he's clearly not being traded for only pick 20. He's also not going to bring us in some mega bounty either. Neither fanbase are going to be realistic in these conversations

 

[Doggy Dan]

The usual threats of "Send him to the Pre-Season Draft!" are in full swing.

That's absolutely cultural poison for a club. It upsets players, player managers, the players association, players who would otherwise have thought about coming to your club etc etc.

It's not a "line in the sand" moment, it just tells the entire competition, plus future recruits, that you're going to be a hard place to work in or work with.

If he was contracted and requesting a trade, sure, play hardball. But he's uncontracted - you get the best deal you can and focus on the blokes who want to be there and on making your club a place players want to be.m

Oh yeh, I can do this one too.

Let’s see……The PSD is only a threat if fair value is not offered. If this transpires, Geelong are the frauds for promising the dream but not stumping up the required capital. This would be cultural poison for Geelong and have future players and player managers second guess any decision to nominate them in the future.

Did I do that right?

 

[Ash1337]

I would as Geelong would need that F1 for the Cadman trade

You'll have to settle for Riccardi.

 

[FootyLad0]

Oh yeh, I can do this one too.

Let’s see……The PSD is only a threat if fair value is not offered. If this transpires, Geelong are the frauds for promising the dream but not stumping up the required capital. This would be cultural poison for Geelong and have future players and player managers second guess any decision to nominate them in the future.

Anyone who threatens PSD is a moron...Cats fans included.

 

[Doggy Dan]

Cats current 1st will be a pick of between 22-26 on draft night (collingwoods 1st was 25 last year).

So I feel Geelong will have to throw in their future 1st.

So the trade would be:

Dogs receive: Geelongs 1st(pick 22-26 draft night) and future 1st.

Cats get Dogs 2nd (pick around 35 draft night) and Smith.

Maybe a few late picks for balance.

Reckon this is about right.

 

[STPer18]

Get one of those fancy threeway trades going with West Coast and we can get that Reid fella thrown in while we're at it.

 

[SweatOnMySkin]

Cats current 1st will be a pick of between 22-26 on draft night (collingwoods 1st was 25 last year).

So I feel Geelong will have to throw in their future 1st.

So the trade would be:

Dogs receive: Geelongs 1st(pick 22-26 draft night) and future 1st.

Cats get Dogs 2nd (pick around 35 draft night) and Smith.

Maybe a few late picks for balance.

If I was a betting man I actually think this is what it will end up looking like. I think we'll push for both firsts and send back whatever is needed to get that done. Geelong are having a deep run and presumably strengthening their midfield with this trade. There's no reason to expect F1 to be a particularly good pick

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Becomes a question of how valuable either club sees that pick. Geelong's 2025 is an unknown but there's an inherent devaluation of future picks by clubs anyway. Current currency si always worth more vs a pick you can use ona player you wont be able to use for 2 years

Bit different though with where we're at.

If it was pick 9 then sure. Right smack bang in the middle, and it's every chance of going up or down the following year.

Ours will be minimum 15 though. If I was the Dogs, I'd take the chance that that pick is going to be lower next year.

At worst you're going to break even, and it's going to take us making a prelim (or potentially a GF) next year for that that to be a worse outcome than this year's pick.

At best it's going to be a much better return. So much has to go right to even make preliminary finals, let alone win premierships.

You'd be going down that path if offered every day IMO.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

At best it's going to be a much better return. So much has to go right to even make preliminary finals, let alone win premierships.

You'd be going down that path if offered every day IMO.

I'm fairly sure that if you go back over the last 20 years or so the Cats have made a Preliminary final every 2nd year or so. Maybe even better than that. The Cats tend to have most things going right a lot.

 

[frggr]

Oh yeh, I can do this one too.

Let’s see……The PSD is only a threat if fair value is not offered. If this transpires, Geelong are the frauds for promising the dream but not stumping up the required capital. This would be cultural poison for Geelong and have future players and player managers second guess any decision to nominate them in the future.

Did I do that right?

No, because that's an entirely different situation from blowing your top and walking a player to the PSD.

If Geelong don't get the deal done after promising to get a target across, then that's problematic - yes. Which is exactly why Geelong will get a deal done. Just not the deal you think should be done.

If he was contracted and they couldn't get a deal done, they might say "Sorry mate, we'll try next year". Which I'm sure is a conversation had with contracted players.

But Smith isn't contracted - so the deal will get done if he nominates Geelong.

Thankfully, list managers are more rational and clear-headed about these things.

 

[Wojcinski]

Tankfully, list managers are more rational and clear-headed about these things.

Isn't funny how these trade threads always follow the same format with no-name posters threatening PSD like they have any say in the matter

 

[Doggy Dan]

No, because that's an entirely different situation from blowing your top and walking a player to the PSD.

If Geelong don't get the deal done after promising to get a target across, then that's problematic - yes. Which is exactly why Geelong will get a deal done. Just not the deal you think should be done.

If he was contracted and they couldn't get a deal done, they might say "Sorry mate, we'll try next year". Which I'm sure is a conversation had with contracted players.

But Smith isn't contracted - so the deal will get done if he nominates Geelong.

Thankfully, list managers are more rational and clear-headed about these things.

So you are suggesting Geelong will only agree to a deal that is below what is fair value for Smith?

Contracted status means little in this scenario. He’s either traded, or he leaves taking the risk via alternate means. You are trying to make a high-brow argument as to why Geelong should be able to screw the Dogs over and the Dogs should smile and accept it so all remains civil.

Geelong have sold the dream, it’s as incumbent on them to pay reasonable value as it is on the Dogs to allow clear passage should the baseline level of compensation be met.

 

[frggr]

So you are suggesting Geelong will only agree to a deal that is below what is fair value for Smith?

Contracted status means little in this scenario. He’s either traded, or he leaves taking the risk via alternate means. You are trying to make a high-brow argument as to why Geelong should be able to screw the Dogs over and the Dogs should smile and accept it so all remains civil.

Geelong have sold the dream, it’s as incumbent on them to pay reasonable value as it is on the Dogs to allow clear passage should the baseline level of compensation be met.

I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion. I'll assume you're not misconstruing my post in bad faith.

A player will generally publicly nominate a club only if they're certain a deal can be done.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if there's an "in principal" deal wasn't already agreed between Smith's manager, his chosen club and the Digs.

Geelong have sold the dream, it’s as incumbent on them to pay reasonable values

Correct and they will pay reasonable value.

You may not think it's reasonable value, but the Bulldogs will.

As to contract status - it means everything. The threat of making Smith stay to finish his contract is 100 times more likely than throwing him into the PSD.

Holding a player to their contract is entirely reasonable and nobody would seriously begrudge the Dogs doing it if it were the case. But it's not the case.

At the end of the day they, as an employer, haven't made a compelling case for an employee to stay with them before his contract finished. So he's off to find somewhere that suits him better. That's his right.

The clubs will figure it out and I'm sure you'll be dissatisfied regardless.

 

[Xtreme]

How can he request a trade but not say which club ?

Worse than a Home & Away cliff hanger.

 

[frggr]

How can he request a trade but not say which club ?

Worse than a Home & Away cliff hanger.

He won't publicly state the club because they're still playing football.

The Bulldogs will have known the fact he wanted a trade and the club he wants to go to for months.

We're just stuck with the charade until the destination club has finished their season.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Honestly, I reckon it will be the Cats that he picks.

I then think the Cats will package some picks, and perhaps players to move up to a team needing draft points, in order to get a pick that will satisfy the Dogs range.

Cats will then forward that pick to the Dogs, with a pick swap or two somewhere as change.

I doubt it will be complicated and prolonged as some may think.

 

[Doggy Dan]

I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion. I'll assume you're not misconstruing my post in bad faith.

A player will generally publicly nominate a club only if they're certain a deal can be done.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if there's an "in principal" deal wasn't already agreed between Smith's manager, his chosen club and the Digs.



Correct and they will pay reasonable value.

You may not think it's reasonable value, but the Bulldogs will.

As to contract status - it means everything. The threat of making Smith stay to finish his contract is 100 times more likely than throwing him into the PSD.

Holding a player to their contract is entirely reasonable and nobody would seriously begrudge the Dogs doing it if it were the case. But it's not the case.

At the end of the day they, as an employer, haven't made a compelling case for an employee to stay with them before his contract finished. So he's off to find somewhere that suits him better. That's his right.

The clubs will figure it out and I'm sure you'll be dissatisfied regardless.

If the deal is reasonable I will not be dissatisfied at all.

Your logic around culture, cooler heads prevailing, etc are perfectly pragmatic. Adding grenades like “won’t be the deal Dogs are after” infers you believe the Dogs should and will accept under fair market value. This context is not bad faith on my part, these are the words you’ve chosen.

It does appear we are saying much the same thing regarding a reasonable deal being struck. Your verbiage holds a lean towards a preferable outcome for the Cats, this partiality weakens your argument.