Free Agency Ben McKay [Joins Essendon as RFA]

[Wild Bill]

Lol of course find the one outlier which still isn’t relevant to the McKay discussion. They paid that because he was expected to be a generational forward and the pick 1 from 12 months ago. Not an injury prone 25 year old who’s been in the system 6/7 years and still hasn’t broken out as a top line player due to a mixture of form and injury.

Look how that played out for them though. So actually doesn’t support your argument at all and if anything, is even more reason why clubs shouldn’t and likely won’t be paying $800k+ contracts based on just potential.

Who else has been offered that kind of contract purely on potential as you are asking for…

Right so clubs don’t offer big money on potential but when they do it doesn’t count?

It happened last year - jase had an average 1st year yet got a massive contract - based on potential.

Or a does this 2nd example not count because it proves your post incorrect?

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Right so clubs don’t offer big money on potential but when they do it doesn’t count?

It happened last year - jase had an average 1st year yet got a massive contract - based on potential.

Or a does this 2nd example not count because it proves your post incorrect?

Jase isn’t on 800k + per year which is the number that you have posted for and are asking for McKay. So that’s not a second example.

Boyd is so completely irrelevant to this discussion as he was considered a future star of the game and a generational key forward that the bulldogs threw their check book at with the hope of getting a 13+ year career from.

McKay is a neither thought to be generational talent nor is he only 19 with a decade ahead of him.

He’s coming up 26 and you are wanting clubs to pay 800+ based on potential rather than output.

So as I originally stated, no one will pay that for potential for a 26 year old injury prone player.

Again, please show us an example of where this has happened?

As all you’ve pointed out is Jase who isn’t comparable based on the salary you are asking and Boyd isn’t relevant as they are completely different scenarios.

Anyone else?

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

If we get Mckay reckon it will be a similar deal to Daniher with Lions imo

We'll pay the right amount to trigger band 1 and then front end the rest of his contract

 

[Wild Bill]

Jase isn’t on 800k + per year which is the number that you have posted for and are asking for McKay. So that’s not a second example.

Boyd is so completely irrelevant to this discussion as he was considered a future star of the game and a generational key forward that the bulldogs threw their check book at with the hope of getting a 13+ year career from.

McKay is a neither thought to be generational talent nor is he only 19 with a decade ahead of him.

He’s coming up 26 and you are wanting clubs to pay 800+ based on potential rather than output.

So as I originally stated, no one will pay that for potential for a 26 year old injury prone player.

Again, please show us an example of where this has happened?

As all you’ve pointed out is Jase who isn’t comparable based on the salary you are asking and Boyd isn’t relevant as they are completely different scenarios.

Anyone else?

He may not get 800k. I have always stated that. If he does great - if he doesn’t we have options.

But you have completely ruled it out so if we do get band 1 - make sure you man up and admit you got it wrong.

 

[Le Archie]

So will ess match parish or Redman if ess don’t get band 1? Or will they take the pick and run?

Depends if we think the club taking them can and more importantly WILL do a better deal than the free agency compo. No one is giving you a pick inside 18 for Ben Mckay. He’s done nothing in his career to warrant it.

 

[TheGrizz]

So will ess match parish or Redman if ess don’t get band 1? Or will they take the pick and run?

What has that got to do with North and whether they would match for McKay?

 

[Yoda_]

What has that got to do with North and whether they would match for McKay?

I think it infers offsetting our own compensation if we chased McKay

 

[The acurate one]

Funny thread, North are trying to get get band 1 compo, and why wouldn't they try.
Everyone else is talking that down. And Magoos value of course.

Now he will stay at North if we feel he's worth more than the compo offered, not sure what's so hard to understand about that.
He's not desperate to get out, its not a JHFF situation. So if a club wants him they will have to pay overs, it's that simple.

 

[Unfazed]

Funny thread, North are trying to get get band 1 compo, and why wouldn't they try.
Everyone else is talking that down. And Magoos value of course.

Now he will stay at North if we feel he's worth more than the compo offered, not sure what's so hard to understand about that.
He's not desperate to get out, its not a JHFF situation. So if a club wants him they will have to pay overs, it's that simple.

Fair enough. We would do the same. Will you be prepared to pay him $700k a year? (I'm really hoping Essendon haven't offered that)

 

[The acurate one]

Fair enough. We would do the same. Will you be prepared to pay him $700k a year? (I'm really hoping Essendon haven't offered that)

Oh I don't tend to worry about what players earn. There is a heck of a lot of money flying around these days for some very average footballers.

I think we will let him go and clubs seem willing to pay extra for retaining their draft picks.

I'd love to discuss the values of picks 1-20. Would be an interesting exercise .

 

[Wild Bill]

If success is a key then he should be pick Port. Houston and McKay would majesty a good combo!!

 

[Engimal v3]

Fair enough. We would do the same. Will you be prepared to pay him $700k a year? (I'm really hoping Essendon haven't offered that)

Probably - we are dead set ****ing idiots

 

[Le Archie]

Funny thread, North are trying to get get band 1 compo, and why wouldn't they try.
Everyone else is talking that down. And Magoos value of course.

Now he will stay at North if we feel he's worth more than the compo offered, not sure what's so hard to understand about that.
He's not desperate to get out, its not a JHFF situation. So if a club wants him they will have to pay overs, it's that simple.

Agree - do you think the club would value him higher than pick 19? Because that's essentially what end of first round compo would be? Objectively that would be overs for Ben McKay based on age and performance to date. That's why I would think you guys will still accept that but interested to hear what actual North fans would think of that and his importance to your team?

 

[The acurate one]

Agree - do you think the club would value him higher than pick 19? Because that's essentially what end of first round compo would be? Objectively that would be overs for Ben McKay based on age and performance to date. That's why I would think you guys will still accept that but interested to hear what actual North fans would think of that and his importance to your team?

I honestly don’t know how high or low they rate him. I do believe they’re happy for him to leave.

Of course I want the best pick possible. Think he’s worth more than 19 which will become 20 odd at days end.

I’d like to think around pick 10-12 which takes into consideration our current spot on the ladder.

 

[Le Archie]

I honestly don’t know how high or low they rate him. I do believe they’re happy for him to leave.

Of course I want the best pick possible. Think he’s worth more than 19 which will become 20 odd at days end.

I’d like to think around pick 10-12 which takes into consideration our current spot on the ladder.

That's the thing though. There is no way we are giving up a first round draft pick for Ben McKay.

His only appeal to a young developing club like ours is that he is free, we're not in a position to be giving up a high pick for an unproven key defender. North will have to decide is it worth taking the risk and matching for the sake of 8-9 draft picks (ie pick 19/20 v pick 11/12). It's really pick 19 or keep Ben McKay after he has already declared he wants out.

 

[Ry009]

after he has already declared he wants out.

Is this publically stated anywhere or just on the basis he hasn't signed? Good chance both the club and him are happy to see what his value is at years end.

 

[Wild Bill]

Agree - do you think the club would value him higher than pick 19? Because that's essentially what end of first round compo would be? Objectively that would be overs for Ben McKay based on age and performance to date. That's why I would think you guys will still accept that but interested to hear what actual North fans would think of that and his importance to your team?

North should match it if 19.

That's the thing though. There is no way we are giving up a first round draft pick for Ben McKay.

His only appeal to a young developing club like ours is that he is free, we're not in a position to be giving up a high pick for an unproven key defender. North will have to decide is it worth taking the risk and matching for the sake of 8-9 draft picks (ie pick 19/20 v pick 11/12). It's really pick 19 or keep Ben McKay after he has already declared he wants out.

Thats why the Hawks became a power house. They didn’t care about draft picks if they could improve their list. You have a massive hole. You can fill it - or stay mediocre.

 

[Le Archie]

Is this publically stated anywhere or just on the basis he hasn't signed? Good chance both the club and him are happy to see what his value is at years end.

no absolutely not - just on the basis he has declared he wants out if he is exercising his free agency rights in that scenario.

 

[Le Archie]

North should match it if 19.

Thats why the Hawks became a power house. They didn’t care about draft picks if they could improve their list. You have a massive hole. You can fill it - or stay mediocre.

The Hawks had already won a premiership and had established young superstars (Hodge, Franklin, Rioli, Roughead, Mitchell, Lewis) before they started hitting free agency and trade hard. They went for established senior players in 2009 in Burgoyne and Gibson who had proved a lot at that stage of their careers. Your comparison is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Wild Bill]

The Hawks had already won a premiership and had established young superstars (Hodge, Franklin, Rioli, Roughead, Mitchell, Lewis) before they started hitting free agency and trade hard. They went for established senior players in 2009 in Burgoyne and Gibson who had proved a lot at that stage of their careers. Your comparison is absolutely ridiculous.

It points out over rating picks at the expense of your list is poor list management. But I don’t need to tell you about poor list management - the drought is well publicised.

 

[Le Archie]

It points out over rating picks at the expense of your list is poor list management. But I don’t need to tell you about poor list management - the drought is well publicised.

It's not overating picks at all. We can literally get him for FREE so why would anyone consider using a pick on McKay. This isn't a pick 12 v pick 19 discussion. We can get the same result with player and keep our first round pick. If he was a guaranteed top line contributor I agree with your sentiment but even you would realise that's not what he is.

Not sure you're in any position to be taking list management pot shots, 11 wins in 76 games is all time AFL levels of bad....

 

[The acurate one]

Jase isn’t on 800k + per year which is the number that you have posted for and are asking for McKay. So that’s not a second example.

Boyd is so completely irrelevant to this discussion as he was considered a future star of the game and a generational key forward that the bulldogs threw their check book at with the hope of getting a 13+ year career from.

McKay is a neither thought to be generational talent nor is he only 19 with a decade ahead of him.

He’s coming up 26 and you are wanting clubs to pay 800+ based on potential rather than output.

So as I originally stated, no one will pay that for potential for a 26 year old injury prone player.

Again, please show us an example of where this has happened?

As all you’ve pointed out is Jase who isn’t comparable based on the salary you are asking and Boyd isn’t relevant as they are completely different scenarios.

Anyone else?

As I’ve said previously I’d like peoples thoughts on the value of draft picks 1-20 $$$ I do mean.

To pick up a guy for nothing but salary cap space I imagine is quite lucrative to all clubs.

You only get one first rounder per year and so on.

Now I cannot see a scenario where a trade is forced. That’s not happening.

The suitor will keep their picks and get him on board .That’s his value, not sure why folk can’t see that ?

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

As I’ve said previously I’d like peoples thoughts on the value of draft picks 1-20 $$$ I do mean.

To pick up a guy for nothing but salary cap space I imagine is quite lucrative to all clubs.

You only get one first rounder per year and so on.

Now I cannot see a scenario where a trade is forced. That’s not happening.

The suitor will keep their picks and get him on board .That’s his value, not sure why folk can’t see that ?

I don’t think there is any way to say pick so and so is the equivalent of this much $$.

There’s no guarantee what that pick will be, how they will develop or what they will become. There’s every chance pick 1 turns into a $1m player or they could be delisted in 4 years. It’s a false equivalency trying to draw a figure and say that’s equal to this pick.

Obviously you’d hope the higher the pick the higher the success rate however thats not the case often.

But of course free agents are lucrative to clubs.

It’s the fact it’s a free hit if a club has salary space that makes it attractive. However that also doesn’t mean though that clubs just throw an extra $150+k per year onto a contract if a player isn’t worth that. Particularly when we are talking multi year deals, well ran clubs won’t throw $500k + out the door and risk loosing other players.

Generally once a player wants out, the original club accepts the compo and everyone moves on. See Brad Crouch as a perfect example. Endless posturing that Adelaide would only accept pick 2 and that’s his worth and then accepted the compo regardless.

However to say though that a club will get him onboard and keep their first meaning that that first must be his value doesn’t align in my view (if I’m reading that correct?). That’s just another way of saying you think he’s worth a first rounder and band 1 while trying to attach a $$ amount to that pick. I still just cannot see any club offering that much money.

 

[AusMC]

As I’ve said previously I’d like peoples thoughts on the value of draft picks 1-20 $$$ I do mean.

To pick up a guy for nothing but salary cap space I imagine is quite lucrative to all clubs.

You only get one first rounder per year and so on.

Now I cannot see a scenario where a trade is forced. That’s not happening.

The suitor will keep their picks and get him on board .That’s his value, not sure why folk can’t see that ?

GCS gave pick 7 to Geelong for Bowes and his remaining contract which was rumoured to be 850k/year for 2 more years (back-ended contract).
Hypothetically Geelong would generally pay above the average wage (406k/year) for a former top-10 pick who would be playing senior footy, again, hypothetically 550k/year.
Essentially then GCS and Geelong were happy to value 300k/year for 2 years at pick 7.
The difficulty with calculating this though is that Geelong can then restructure his deal over a longer period, pushing the money down the line once more.

Ultimately if a club is firmly in a premiership window, or would otherwise lose some stars they need to keep, the value of the cap space becomes far greater.
We've also seen the value of draft picks diminish when other clubs know those picks will likely be 'eaten' by a father-son or academy bid, ala Collingwood trading a future 1st which they reasonably expected to disappear in a bid for Daicos.
Classic supply and demand.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

We will probably have a top 5 pick and maybe a top 10. We don't need another top 5 pick more than we need Ben McKay.

I think Watson would be good in your forward line