Big Four Parasites do it again

[sainter]

Originally posted by Deej
Carlton and Richmond have a great rivalry stemming mainly from the late 60's and 70's-80's, who do StKilda even have a rivalry with? As I understood it the saints kind of think of Carlton now as their biggest rival because of the hamill sellout thing and of course BJ. Feeling certainly isn't reciprocated in my eyes, not for your club anyway. More like for us it's against $cumill and the AFL.

I don't see why you'd be so ****ed off about this actually, why can't Carlton and Richmond want to play each other and not the saints?

Saints fans think Carlton are our biggest rival?

Many of us just dislike Carlton and enjoy nothing more than beating them. Why would we care that you were our rivals, that would infer that we actually gave a **** about your club.

As for the topic, we've been criticised for not being proactive enough in trying to find our own blockbuster games and here we've finally been given a game against a high drawing club on a holiday weekend, following the 71,488 we drew against Richmond on the Queens Birthday Monday 5 years ago, and two clubs want to keep it between themselves. Good on them. No point losing any sleep over it. Our crowds, membership, sponsorship and on field performances are improving and I'm looking forward to a great future.

 

[Wojee]

The hail, thunder and rain held off, but the icy wind certainly put in an appearance.


I can't fathom why St Kilda should be given a "blockbuster" against a team that doesn't want to play them. I'd have thought both teams would have to request it.
If Richmond would prefer to play Carlton, then St Kilda just need to take it on the chin and move on.

 

[ACT exile]

I couldnt give a tinkers cuss about so called traditional rivalries. Its about time Vic supporters got over the VFL and moved on to the AFL.

 

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by Joel
Joffaboy,

Just a question, have St. Kilda ever, and I mean ever, been pro active in seeking and promoting games of this kind?

If not, then what the hell are you whinging about? These teams asked the AFL if it could be a regular fixture, St. Kilda could do a similar thing.

Didn't need to, the Saints were happy at Waverley. You didn't need 30000 people to turn up to break even and you had a distinct home advantage.

Collingwood will have there snouts in that trough too.

 

[Deej]

Yeah maybe we should get over rivalries maybe we should get over the VFL maybe we should just give up and cry maybe we should quit the league and start our own little comp up again eh what ya reckon could Adelaide Port Freo Bris Syd and West coast survive without the vic clubs hmmm i wonder.....

Forget the VFL??? You complete and utter goose. Have some god damn respect for the sport's history.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by Joffaboy
Bet you are the only supporter of the advantaged four who would have the courage to back that though. Self Interest means everything to most supporters.

To be perfectly honest I really do believe the Blockbusters are a net positive but they could certainly be better handled in many ways. I also have no objection to a larger equalisation take from these matches given we have the system we do. The random draw produces many negative IMO. The problem is that there are so many side deals to fix unequal equalisation and equalisation is an unattainable goal anyway that it just has to be straightened out. Apart from any equity issue I am wary of further disenfranchising supporters. The thing that made the VFL what it was (not ignoring other comps just limiting comment to what I grew up with) was the passion of such a huge proportion of the population and such a large cross section of the community. Jeopardize that and you end up in the same boat as the other sports in Australia.

My solution is to throw the hands in the air, let everyone compete and give no advantages to anyone. I believe this could actually work and in fact it did for nearly 100 years. People argue about the modern professionalism and costs to run a club but that is all relative to the times, environment and revenue generation policy and capacity. It's a furphy as is the Man. U scenario often suggested. In any case, it is possible to put floors in the bottom level of performance if open competition is not desired. IMO that would be counter productive but some compromise in efficiency may be needed to bring the reluctant along.

This will not happen though. There is too much paranoia about disastrous consequences and the Commission's very existence or at least its very power base will disappear.

Anyway, it’s just the ramblings of a one eyed, know it all Collingwood supporter and the AFL has no intention of doing anything that might lessen its grip on control of a sport, a competition and a cultural icon.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by sandeano
I reckon the forecast of hail, thunder, rain and icy wind that day put a lot of people off, even if it never eventuated.

Yet ANZAC Day 2002 was a bumbper crowd.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by Jars458
Not really.

They appeal to the lowest common denominator.

They pull 'em in at AAMI.

 

[ACT exile]

Originally posted by Deej

Forget the VFL??? You complete and utter goose. Have some god damn respect for the sport's history.

I didnt say forget I said get over - sheesh - I do feel your anger however, your team has been put on the same scrapheap that mine has been consigned to for the last eight years. Unike us who were destined to be there for some time by the rediculous conditions we were forced to accept as the price of entry your mob is there through the arogance and stupidity of your ex board. Have fun I know I didnt.

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by MarkT
Yet ANZAC Day 2002 was a bumbper crowd.

I'm sorry, someone refresh my memory, what was the biggest H&A crowd the AFL has had in the past 5 years and which sides were involved???

Must be collingwood and someone eh...surely.

"WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION. WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION. WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION. WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION...."

 

[morgoth]

Deej

Deej

Grow up, if you go to dedicated Pie sites what do you expect to see?????

As for the kerfuffle, who really cares the final arbitrater will be the AFL and St Kilda could always try and fight back by approaching Collingwood or Essendon. I have a hunch though that Ed don't have much time for Mr Buttress.

It does strike me as odd that no one seems to want to help the Aints. We have agreed that Melb can have the Q bDay as a home game, Ed helps the dogs with exposure on TFS.

Must be a conspiracy?

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by Deej
I'm sorry, someone refresh my memory, what was the biggest H&A crowd the AFL has had in the past 5 years and which sides were involved???

Must be collingwood and someone eh...surely.

"WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION. WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION. WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION. WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION...."

Well limit to a single match and a period of 5 years if you like. Limit everything to what ever period suits you and your club - it's no skin off my nose. Carlton are still just Carlton and you are just one of their apologists who is petrified at their consistant slde from the top echelon even while you were still playing finals and winning flags. Write me off as a troll or one of your ck's as well. Again, it's no skin off my nose. While you are at it why don't you tell me how pathetic the BF posters are. Then you can come back tomorrow and say it all again. Then the day after.... Tell me again how great you club is. I'll tell you how great Melbourne was too once upon a time. Even better, tell me again about all these VFL rivalries you seem to fondly remember or respect for the sports history. Respect indeed. You have none for anyone or anything bar yourself and Carlton as far as I can gather from you posting of recent times. You want respect for you club but they ahve shown zero respect for anyone at any period that I have been alive. Just keep telling yourself what a great club the Blues still are though.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by Falchoon
Didn't need to, the Saints were happy at Waverley. You didn't need 30000 people to turn up to break even and you had a distinct home advantage.

Sadly that attitude was reflected by your club. hence the problem and the debate.

Originally posted by Falchoon
Collingwood will have there snouts in that trough too.

Which trough?

 

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by MarkT
Sadly that attitude was reflected by your club. hence the problem and the debate.

Which trough?

The club was making money, probably still would be if we were at Waverley, hence no need for 6 blockbusters a year.

The trough? the ground that Hawthorn and St Kilda loved and that Collingwood hated is being sold off, there will be a distribution of proceeds. I'd like to see Collingwood who wouldn't have missed the ground anyway say no thanks, we're just happy to see the end of that ground.

 

[morgoth]

why

Why we put more money through that ground than anyone else. Maybe the Aints should say, 'oh we already get propped up via equalisation, so we don't feel entitled to another hand-out'.

 

[Joffaboy]

Originally posted by MGREG
Joffaboy

I wont respond to your tirade which is water off a duck's back.

What really annoys me is your mis-spelling of the word

"hypocrite".

It isnt "hypocrit", it is "hypocrite".

Typos are one thing and I probably have one here, but that isnt a typo, is it?

Cheers.

I might not be able to spell it but I know them a mile off, and the replies to this thread just emphasises the hypocrit's amongst us.

Oh BTW thanks for the lesson in English. Thank God everybody else on an internet forum spells every word correctly 100% of the time.

 

[Portia]

Joffaboy, the fact that your primary whinge was about Carlton and Richmond getting something which you would want St Kilda to get instead pretty much removes you from any moral high ground.

If you'd decided that such fixture fixing was wrong, sure thing, but you're more upset about the fact that St Kilda can't seem to organize a fixed fixture themselves.

 

[Joffaboy]

Originally posted by Joel
Joffaboy,

Just a question, have St. Kilda ever, and I mean ever, been pro active in seeking and promoting games of this kind?

If not, then what the hell are you whinging about? These teams asked the AFL if it could be a regular fixture, St. Kilda could do a similar thing.

You guys play in Tasmania 3 times a year, if I'm correct, would that not be an advantage over teams that don't play there as often? Would that not be an advantage because you are seeking opportunities in a market where only one other team is seeking those opportunties? If not, then why the hell are you playing down there?

Um let me see - Saturday nights were first pioneered by the Saints in a menaingful way. They were ripped off us for a time, however we have them back now, and are reaping the benefits of them with significantly higher crowds.

What i am "whinging" about is the insincere bulls.hit advice we get from advantaged four supporters.

"You must get finances yourself, dont depend on handouts, promote yourself and get your own games of significance. - blah blah blah"

OK so what do the Saints do? Because of the selfishness and greed of the advantaged four, they are crowded out of the market and have to sell two home games a year interstate. Now Joel how the hell does that advantage me as a paid up Saints member who will miss two home games, while someone like you gets to enjoy 11 home games because your team is unfairly advantaged? Yes we get a financial benefit of playing in Tassie, but it has been forced on us because of the AFL handouts to clubs like yours.

Now we have Part II. On Easter Monday there was a near lockout at Telstra Dome (44k+) with many hundreds if not thousands turned away). The Saints tell the League that they would like to pencil that in as it would be a significant date and be beneficial for the Saints finances. What does these to advantaged clubs do? They try to steal the Saints idea.
Now tell me how is that in any way construed as being pro active, by Richmond and Carlton.

Just like Queens Birthday when that was taken from the Saints, Easter Monday will be taken over by the AFL welfare recipients.

 

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by Porthos


If you'd decided that such fixture fixing was wrong, sure thing, but you're more upset about the fact that St Kilda can't seem to organize a fixed fixture themselves.

The AFL 'fixes' the fixtures, we may merely request.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by Falchoon
The AFL 'fixes' the fixtures, we may merely request.

Well, yes. I don't reckon I said otherwise.

 

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by Porthos
Well, yes. I don't reckon I said otherwise.

Originally posted by Porthos
about the fact that St Kilda can't seem to organize a fixed fixture themselves.

semantics

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Deej
I'm sorry, someone refresh my memory, what was the biggest H&A crowd the AFL has had in the past 5 years and which sides were involved???

Must be collingwood and someone eh...surely.

"WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION. WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION. WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION. WE ARE THE ENVY OF A NATION...."

what's teh biggest Crowd the AFL have had since the Southern Stand was developed

Crows v Saints - 97 grnad final. 99,000 plus a few

 

[schimma_20]

Why not go back to pooling the gate receipts and distributing evenly between all clubs (instead of the home team) then you could have as many blockbusters,derbies and rigged draws as you want.

 

[Deej]

Originally posted by MarkT
Well limit to a....Just keep telling yourself what a great club the Blues still are though.

Haw haw haa haha nice troll Mark but actually mate it was the AFL and Herald-Sun that named Carlton as the greatest club of the 20th century, not just me, so I guess your points are a bit misguided yes??

16 flags mate jeez that must burn eh.

History says Collingwood=Carlton's beeatches. Mmm mmmm that smells gooooood!!!

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by Joffaboy


...

OK so what do the Saints do? Because of the selfishness and greed of the advantaged four, they are crowded out of the market and have to sell two home games a year interstate. Now Joel how the hell does that advantage me as a paid up Saints member who will miss two home games, while someone like you gets to enjoy 11 home games because your team is unfairly advantaged?

...

Do you truly miss out? Or are you able to go to some 'away' games on your membership as reimbursement?