Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread

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So then why would we trade kruza, yaz and menz who will all be around in 3 years ..

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Rebuild is more about steps than just trying to keep all your good players. First step is building a spine closely followed by key onballers. Basically your core group. Then come your half backs/forwards and so forth with ruckman generally being the last step/priority.

This is due to the importance and influence players in this position have on a game and the availability of quality individuals who play these roles/positions.

So for example good key position players and onballers generally influence the game more than players in other roles followed by your half backs/forwards etc. Good onballers and tall players are generally on par in terms of influence but the availability of quality talls is a lot lower.

So basically players who are good key position players are hardest to bring in through trades and generally take a high draft pick, same as your really good onballers. Pretty much why you have to take advantage of having early picks and the opportunity to take these types of footballers when it arises.

Quality half backs/forwards, second string mids and rucks can generally be found in the second and third round and rookie draft as history shows or can be much easily acquired via trades.

Basically the way I see it, Kreuzer stays and the chances we've taken step one aren't overly likely but if he goes then we've gone a long way in taking the first big step in our rebuild which would be a phenomenal effort. The follow on effects would be pretty big as well as while it probably doesn't lift us off the bottom in the short term, it allows us to focus more on midfielders and other positions in following seasons.

One of the problems with our last rebuild is we only half followed these rules. This is pretty much how Silvagni built GWS. Can Imagine he'll do the same with us.
 
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A rebuild is building a core group U22yo that can develop together. Once you have that core group you can get by with Free Agents, trades and later draft picks as you win more games. The only players still playing from our last rebuild are Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Walker, Simpson and Yarran.

Not only is this core group not good enough, it's not enough players to maintain a competitive group from one first rd pick a year. We have seen it first hand.

We need 10+ quality players (1st rd draft picks) in the most important positions on the ground that you can plug holes around if we're serious about a rebuild.

Kreuzer will be 29, Murphy, Gibbs, Walker and Simpson will be gone and Yarran doesn't want to be there. With Kreuzer in the side we were still getting belted and will continue to get belted for a couple more seasons. Having Schache in the side, we will get belted for a couple more seasons then start improving but instead of having a 29yo ruckman we have a 21yo KPF.
 

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Safeasmilk do you reckon Gibbs will be shopped around next year if it looks like he won't be in our next Premiership window? could get good value for him.
 
Five years in the system and Green still has not developed the consistency required to elevate his game to the next level. He has also never shown himself capable of being a meaningful contributor outside of a forward pocket.

At 23 he can still improve and in time may prove me wrong, but I have doubts that he'll ever be able to get there.

Certainly has talent and we see that when he has the odd big game, but then is prone to going missing for weeks until he pops up again.

Wouldn't have thought that is the ideal type of player to bring in for a rebuild, but I certainly acknowledge he plays a position we don't have much depth in so may be looked at as a ready to go option who can slot straight into the forward pocket.

Can't have too many complaints if we bring Green across cheaply, but if he's being talked about as part of a potential Bell deal...I'd hope they're including something else of significance coming our way, otherwise we're well and truly losing out there.

If we're looking at inconsistent forward pockets, I'd much rather we look at someone like Brandon Matera who has enormous talent but for a number of reasons hasn't put it together at AFL level.
 
Safeasmilk do you reckon Gibbs will be shopped around next year if it looks like he won't be in our next Premiership window? could get good value for him.

He said earlier this year that he wouldn't accept any trade. He wanted to commit to turning the club around. If he has that attitude then we should keep him because it'll be benificial to the kids but if 2016 is 138+ defeats every week I'd be getting whatever I can for him.
 
A rebuild is building a core group U22yo that can develop together. Once you have that core group you can get by with Free Agents, trades and later draft picks as you win more games. The only players still playing from our last rebuild are Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Walker, Simpson and Yarran.

Not only is this core group not good enough, it's not enough players to maintain a competitive group from one first rd pick a year. We have seen it first hand.

We need 10+ quality players (1st rd draft picks) in the most important positions on the ground that you can plug holes around if we're serious about a rebuild.

Kreuzer will be 29, Murphy, Gibbs, Walker and Simpson will be gone and Yarran doesn't want to be there. With Kreuzer in the side we were still getting belted and will continue to get belted for a couple more seasons. Having Schache in the side, we will get belted for a couple more seasons then start improving but instead of having a 29yo ruckman we have a 21yo KPF.
The head says yes, the heart says :cry:

As long as MK doesn't go to Collingwood
 
Carlton haven't taken any offers off the table in the Kreuzer situation. The Blues are offering a base salary between $400,000-$450,000 with potential incentives based on injury and performance (didn't catch the contract length). Word is Kreuzers camp are listening to offers from other clubs to see what the market sets his value at, but he wants to stay a blue.

#bluemour
 
I hung out as long as I could. Come on, all it takes is one little like. I thought it would hurt more but it's sort of nice, like drowning - you just drift around all warm and sleepy.
 

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Don't take any notice of rumours on there myself, why the hate towards it though Aph? Twitter doesn't seem to rile you, why the book? 99% of rumours on both are garbage.

Facebook, Twitter etc are full of garbage rumours & I only mentioned FB as a link was posted in this thread.

I take no notice of them at all.

So if it's on Twitter, FB, BF, GuesSEN and so on, then it must be true SLC. :p
 
Kreuzer isn't done yet.
Happy for the activity going around Carlton right now.
May amount to little but it doesn't feel that way.

No one wants to lose Kreuzer and either scenario is a win. It's a good place to be 'sitting' in right now.

We're definitely keeping our options open. Making it clear MK is wanted but not forcing him to re-sign nor pushing him out the door.

We only have to match, not outbid for him to stay. If he stays we can't afford to be paying him too much anyway because in two years time when Cripps, Weitering etc are coming out of contract we can't be paying a 28yo 600k for two more years.
 
We're definitely keeping our options open. Making it clear MK is wanted but not forcing him to re-sign nor pushing him out the door.

We only have to match, not outbid for him to stay. If he stays we can't afford to be paying him too much anyway because in two years time when Cripps, Weitering etc are coming out of contract we can't be paying a 28yo 600k for two more years.
Wasn't the word on FA that Kreuz can choose to accept our contract and spur all other offers? We don't need to match a higher off to keep him - only if he wants to leave. Given his public stance on Carlton, I'd say if he does decide to stay - he'll accept our offer, meaning we don't need to overspend to keep the big guy.

I got that right?
 
Wasn't the word on FA that Kreuz can choose to accept our contract and spur all other offers? We don't need to match a higher off to keep him - only if he wants to leave. Given his public stance on Carlton, I'd say if he does decide to stay - he'll accept our offer, meaning we don't need to overspend to keep the big guy.

I got that right?
That's how I understand it. It's not like he's obliged to sign on with whoever offers him the most, he chooses.
 
I say no to green unless he's steak knives with aish for bell.

Green gets two year contract to see what he can do. We still need to find an 18yo small forward, unless clem can become that player (which I doubt)
 
That's how I understand it. It's not like he's obliged to sign on with whoever offers him the most, he chooses.

Yep, but if we offer $450k, and Collingwood $550k, we may be in a position where we don't think we'll get the band 1 compo, but Kreuze accepts the Collingwood offer.

In that case, we'd need to match it to retain him.
 
The funny thing about FB a guy who runs or admins one of the Carlton supporters groups trawls BF for things then posts to his group with BREAKING claiming it as his own sources...
I reckon if someone posted a Blumourfile "Ablett to Carlton" it'll be up there in a flash.

Good old FB...
 
Yep, but if we offer $450k, and Collingwood $550k, we may be in a position where we don't think we'll get the band 1 compo, but Kreuze accepts the Collingwood offer.

In that case, we'd need to match it to retain him.
Yep - but that argument is moot as it's widely regarded that one of two things will happen:

1. Kreuz chooses to stay and reject all other offers - signs our contract at (to use your estimate) ~$450k pa
2. Kruez chooses to leave and we let him go on good authority that it'd net us Band 1 FA Compo
 
Rebuild is more about steps than just trying to keep all your good players. First step is building a spine closely followed by key onballers. Basically your core group. Then come your half backs/forwards and so forth with ruckman generally being the last step/priority.

This is due to the importance and influence players in this position have on a game and the availability of quality individuals who play these roles/positions.

So for example godo key position players and onballers generally influence the game more than players in other roles followed by your half backs/forwards etc. Good onballers and tall players are generally on par in terms of influence but the availability of quality talls is a lot lower.

So basically players who are good key position players are hardest to bring in through trades and generally take a high draft pick, same as your really good onballers. Pretty much why you have to take advantage of having early picks and the opportunity to take these types of footballers when it arises.

Quality half backs/forwards, second string mids and rucks can generally be found in the second and third round and rookie draft as history shows or can be much easily acquired via trades.

Basically the way I see it, Kreuzer stays and the chances we've taken step one aren't overly likely but if he goes then we've gone a long way in taking the first big step in our rebuild which would be a phenomenal effort. The follow on effects would be pretty big as well as while it probably doesn't lift us off the bottom in the short term, it allows us to focus more on midfielders and other positions in following seasons.

One of the problems with our last rebuild is we only half follows these rules. This is pretty much how Silvagni built GWS. Can Imagine he'll do the same with us.

Good job ,
But i fear some just won't listen to what they don't wanna hear ...
 
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