Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[Blue1980]

They play in different position idk how they are comparable.

I do wonder how much of people wanting Petracca and willing to trade Harry to get him is due to

a) Harry not having played recently and us playing badly last couple of months (though Harry himself was great until the concussion/virus from the North game, seems many peoples memories don't go back that far)

b) The game where Petracca almost single handedly got them over the line against us earlier this year.

 

[TrueQldBlue]

Conspiracy Theory - Petracca is cooked and Melbourne are trying to manufacture trade to get out of the five years remaining on his contract and get a maximum return before people find out the real reason.

Damn like a good conspiracy theory

On CPH2135 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Accidental genius]

The issue with coaching will remain regardless of who I we get, this shouldn’t be a reason not to go out and improve the list.

The Judd trade always comes up as a reason not to do a similar deal, why not? I think the deal was good, hindsight will tell you offering pick 1 and 3 would have been way better for us but people love the idea that the draft will deliver them the next superstar.

What’s missed is our list stuff ups once Judd arrived and the demise of our Coleman medalist at the time, the butchering of first round picks, the failed trades where we gave away first round picks, the terrible drafting and outdated training and development were more to blame than the deal itself.

Improving the list has got to be done with reasonable thought.

Whilst Trac improves the list in the short term it can also destroy it in the medium/longer term and potentially get our list off balance.

If he came in all of a sudden our mid group becomes overly fortified...and it may mean trading out one/two of the existing mids

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Minor rumour - overheard Charlies father at the St.Kilda game say that Charlie did hurt the ankle prior to the GWS game in the warmup.

 

[TrueQldBlue]

Hmmmm

On CPH2135 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HarryFlashman]

At least this is all an interesting conversation, I think Trac is going to be the reminder to all the clubs that big long term contracts aren’t necessarily the best thing for a club.
Yes u get stability but these contracts are heavily favorable for the players.

Personally I think the trend for long contracts on huge coin are blatantly stupid for the club given the very real risk of injury & the shit that happens at clubs.

 

[jj1978]

At least this is all an interesting conversation, I think Trac is going to be the reminder to all the clubs that big long term contracts aren’t necessarily the best thing for a club.
Yes u get stability but these contracts are heavily favorable for the players.

Personally I think the trend for long contracts on huge coin are blatantly stupid for the club given the very real risk of injury & the shit that happens at clubs.

The Mark Mercuri one was the one that got clubs shying against them for a long time... but once free agency came around changed that thought. But if you do sign a player long term and wish to consider them gone... you just really need to treat them like sh## and you can get someone else to take their contract (Trealor, Grundy, Ginnivan, etc)...

ps: Funny how those 3 were ex-pies... they screw up their cap and have to resort to treating players like lepers.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

There’s a study on this that concluded BSI’s all have similar recovery times no matter the severity but return to play is different

Lloyd was 206 days between injury and playing again

No precedent, can’t predict scope for recovery in full granted as all injuries are different of course but I am confident based on my cursory readings of a couple of studies as a layman (I.e. not a medical professional) that he will be OK

And what about the bodies response to surgery? Chronic pain issues? What about my analogy to Jonathon Trott?

There's a reason it's such a tough field. There are a **** tonne of factors, things that can go wrong, things that might not heal.

My lisfrance surgery was in early 2016. I row now because I haven't been able to run consistently since. My surgeon was the guy who operates on gws/Sydney players and clubs inmelb fly ppl up. I have dealt with infection post surgery, complex regional pain syndrome, depression from losing the sport etc etc etc etc. It cannot be boiled down to 'bone in foot healed gud'. Or in Petraccas case 'organ tissue sew up gud'. As I said. He was told he had a reasonable chance of death during the procedure. There's mental scarring there too. Can you imagine backing into a pack after that?

Let's not make assumptions. Medical issues are personal and full stories are rarely ever released especially with highly complex life threatening situations. I don't think his is comparable to others because of severity. He's on his own journey fans can only wait and see how he goes.

 

[Stamos]

At least this is all an interesting conversation, I think Trac is going to be the reminder to all the clubs that big long term contracts aren’t necessarily the best thing for a club.
Yes u get stability but these contracts are heavily favorable for the players.

Personally I think the trend for long contracts on huge coin are blatantly stupid for the club given the very real risk of injury & the shit that happens at clubs.

They're a way of underpaying players in their peak years and copping it when you have to make it up when they're past it.

Dusty signed a 7 year deal, won the Tiges 2 flags, absolutely worth it.
But it hurt them the last 3 years when he was nowhere near a million dollar player.

 

[JustaBattler]

To those that didn’t have either the time or ability to reply to this post with anything other than a red thumb, i ask you the one question that was the crux of the post.

Do you believe this group can win a premiership without beastmode Cripps leading the charge ?

If your answer is yes, I’d love you to explain how ?

If your answer is no, surely you must agree that we have 2/3 years to land a premiership and this now mature group has as yet failed to even reach top 4 status meaning more than likely, if nothing changes … nothing changes …

I dont red thumb mate- but I'll answer your questions
1. Yes
2. By having the best players available more often than not and getting a 2nd KPD and a genuine fast legged crumbing small - OR in the case of lacking a genuine small- improving the type of entries made into forward fifty and getting the high quality players IN teh forward fifty working better together.

also why speculate on Cripp's availability of not- every team carries the risk of losing their best player at any time.

 

[HarryFlashman]

The Mark Mercuri one was the one that got clubs shying against them for a long time... but once free agency came around changed that thought. But if you do sign a player long term and wish to consider them gone... you just really need to treat them like sh## and you can get someone else to take their contract (Trealor, Grundy, Ginnivan, etc)...

ps: Funny how those 3 were ex-pies... they screw up their cap and have to resort to treating players like lepers.

After Kouta did his knee it lead to a fair bit of contract weariness.
IMO free agency system is up the shit, hasn’t really been proactively updated/modified to strike the best balance.

AFL should stop ****ing around - increase the amount of $ given to clubs, increase the cap & base wages and let clubs start shopping players.
Ridiculous that a player can say “I don’t wanna go there” & a trade that’s beneficial for the club get squashed on an individual’s preferences.

 

[Red Bull]

Yes.
Beastmode Walsh, TDK, Charlie, H, Weiters

The things we most need to change to improve our chances of flags is fitness of the list, tall defender depth, and some speed through the midfield and half-forward.

Thanks for your reply Stamos.
Id argue that we’ve had Walsh already finish 4th in a Brownlow.
Charlie and Harry win the Coleman.
Weitering in AA squads.
That’s pretty much beastmode already and we’re still to crack top 4.
Hopefully TDK reaches that level soon.
Petracca delivers the midfield explosion and half forward goal kicking power we desperately need.
The tall defender issue is also addressed in the post.

The clock is ticking on Cripps … and this group …

 

[Soapy V]

Do you believe this group can win a premiership without beastmode Cripps leading the charge ?

If your answer is yes, I’d love you to explain how ?

Bloody oath we can

Cripps is a star. An all time great of the club. However, if there is one game that relies more on the group than individuals it's AFL

I am big believer in a more even group over a few stars. I have said this year many times that we rely on our stars way too much. That's why we win games when not playing great team football

If Cripps isn't there the group and others will step up. Always does. IMO this has been highlighted by last 2 weeks

 

[jj1978]

After Kouta did his knee it lead to a fair bit of contract weariness.
IMO free agency system is up the shit, hasn’t really been proactively updated/modified to strike the best balance.

AFL should stop ****ing around - increase the amount of $ given to clubs, increase the cap & base wages and let clubs start shopping players.
Ridiculous that a player can say “I don’t wanna go there” & a trade that’s beneficial for the club get squashed on an individual’s preferences.

Our salary cap amount is what still gives the player those powers. If caps went up to say 50 million (basically each listed player could average 1 million+) then clubs and AFL would have powers to push back and go to the players, you want to be paid this well then these are the conditions - 1. you can be traded willy nilly.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

And what about the bodies response to surgery? Chronic pain issues? What about my analogy to Jonathon Trott?

There's a reason it's such a tough field. There are a **** tonne of factors, things that can go wrong, things that might not heal.

My lisfrance surgery was in early 2016. I row now because I haven't been able to run consistently since. My surgeon was the guy who operates on gws/Sydney players and clubs inmelb fly ppl up. I have dealt with infection post surgery, complex regional pain syndrome, depression from losing the sport etc etc etc etc. It cannot be boiled down to 'bone in foot healed gud'. Or in Petraccas case 'organ tissue sew up gud'. As I said. He was told he had a reasonable chance of death during the procedure. There's mental scarring there too. Can you imagine backing into a pack after that?

Let's not make assumptions. Medical issues are personal and full stories are rarely ever released especially with highly complex life threatening situations. I don't think his is comparable to others because of severity. He's on his own journey fans can only wait and see how he goes.

Dude, chill

I read medical studies to get my information, you've inserted your own personal anecdote to refute my "argument" (which was more of a catch-all statement surrounding evidenced based recovery for BSI's with a caveat that return to play is different)

I don't know what's got you swearing in your post and insulting my intelligence by boiling my points down to 'organ tissue sew up gud' - I mean no harm in my posts, I'm just stating what I've read from medical studies and offering the only precedent we have in our sport (Lloyd)

It's complicated for sure, I just personally based on the evidence I've read that he'll be fine. You're welcome to disagree, but there's no need for this to turn into a heated argument when we're both guilty of making assumptions man.

All the best.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Fair chance the CP camp are talking up the trauma aspect to force Melbourne's hand re trade and also to potentially talk down his trade value (which increases the chances of it happening)

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Petracca is a gun who wants to play in front of big crowds, is of italian heritage, and just suffered a life threatening injury which could mean that he never plays the same way again.

I really can't see how it could be more of a Carlton type trade unless we found a way to screw over Freo while doing it.

 

[GeoCoulthard]

Re. The Harry rumours: Please NO. Trading a 27 year old (next year) key position player at the top of his game and who has demonstrated his worth for a 29 year old coming off a serious injury who will possibly not regain the (great) form he had in the past - at least not for too long into the future. If it were to happen the deal must be HEAVILY in our favour and only if Harry was keen to go.

 

[mochacinolatte]

I do wonder how much of people wanting Petracca and willing to trade Harry to get him is due to

a) Harry not having played recently and us playing badly last couple of months (though Harry himself was great until the concussion/virus from the North game, seems many peoples memories don't go back that far)

b) The game where Petracca almost single handedly got them over the line against us earlier this year.

A lot of recency bias. People forget we were humming before the bye round. Our midfield ran over other mids. KPF kicking bags and Harry/Charlie looked like being Top 5 goal kickers for the year.

Then injuries occured and the wheels started to fall apart.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Re. The Harry rumours: Please NO. Trading a 27 year old (next year) key position player at the top of his game and who has demonstrated his worth for a 29 year old coming off a serious injury who will possibly not regain the (great) form he had in the past - at least not for too long into the future. If it were to happen the deal must be HEAVILY in our favour and only if Harry was keen to go.

Curnow and McKay have both said they are unequivocally not open to a move to Melbourne

McKay’s manager came out this morning

 

[Matty411]

LOVE that info, Soapy V - would we honestly get both though? Haynes was at times held out of GWS' team by Aleer himself. Why would he do the same at a new club?

I can see the Petracca stuff staying quiet on our side if we are interested. I wonder if he could fall into our lap. I sure as hell would rather we get the spoils of a 'cheap' trade if things deteriorate emphatically rather than a competitor.

 

[Stamos]

Thanks for your reply Stamos.
Id argue that we’ve had Walsh already finish 4th in a Brownlow.
Charlie and Harry win the Coleman.
Weitering in AA squads.
That’s pretty much beastmode already and we’re still to crack top 4.
Hopefully TDK reaches that level soon.
Petracca delivers the midfield explosion and half forward goal kicking power we desperately need.
The tall defender issue is also addressed in the post.

The clock is ticking on Cripps … and this group …

We've had a horror run of injuries over those years though.
Some of that is injury prone players, some of it is mismanagement.
We also completely blew 2 years by having Teague as coach. And to a certain extent, also blew 2018 with injuries, 2019 with Bolton going off the rails.

Even this year that we have completely bottled. If H doesn't get sick for the Port game, we're 2 decent kicks across 4 games from 2nd place.

 

[jj1978]

I'm sure we have a spare forward we can trade to Melbourne. Fantasia for one, proven match winning prowess on Anzac day games. Owies, he played basketball you know so may end up a 400 game player like Pendles. Jack Martin

19

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

- abundant X-factor will work his hardest to be fit for his 1-2 games a year. Motlop another who will thrive under the tutelage of Pickett.

Alright they've twisted my arm, Fantasia, Motlop our 2nd rounder and future 3rd, for Petracca and their 3rd rounder.

 

[Soapy V]

LOVE that info, Soapy V - would we honestly get both though? Haynes was at times held out of GWS' team by Aleer himself. Why would he do the same at a new club?

I can see the Petracca stuff staying quiet on our side if we are interested. I wonder if he could fall into our lap. I sure as hell would rather we get the spoils of a 'cheap' trade if things deteriorate emphatically rather than a competitor.

I don't know much more but am asking. Club certainly doesn't leak as much info as when Teague was in charge

There is a feeling that Haynes is a back up/coaching/development type role. May play for a year then coach? I don't think he is seen as answer for our backline

 

[jj1978]

We've had a horror run of injuries over those years though.
Some of that is injury prone players, some of it is mismanagement.
We also completely blew 2 years by having Teague as coach. And to a certain extent, also blew 2018 with injuries, 2019 with Bolton going off the rails.

Even this year that we have completely bottled. If H doesn't get sick for the Port game, we're 2 decent kicks across 4 games from 2nd place.

Still shiver over thoughts of how we appointed him. Was the biggest WTF moment as much as any consideration that Barker almost got the role years prior.