Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

[Stamos]

Is he?

Fish signed in 2020.

We were paying Martin, Williams, McGovern, Cripps big money, but Walsh would have been on less, Curnow and McKay less etc.

Probably got a fair size offer so we could make salary floor.

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Fish signed an extension last year (2 years till 2025).
Gresham is on 6-700k with his current contract. Surely nobody will offer him that, but I doubt he'll sign for the cut it would tak him to get to Fisher's level.

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

We were very set on Gresham but the way the small half forwards and Martin played over the second half of the season have turned him into what was probably seen as a need to really not being a must at all. Club has cooled significantly and I’d personally be stunned if we ended up with him now but that mail was legit at the time, things change.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I don't know that we are squeezing Fish out (he's under contract) so much as other teams are dangling deals he can't turn down.

If he's going to go, and we get draft capital out of it and can replace without losing prime age talent in the team, we should probably just get a replacement

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It feels like we're nudging him out the door. And even if we're not, we've still demoted him to the ressies and then repurposed him as a half back - it doesn't scream "we need a like for like replacement", he's already been surplus to requirement in the role that Gresham specialises in, and their output is very similar.

If they're all fit, whish forward half player does Gresham immediately push out:

Martin, McKay, Cuningham
Motlop, Curnow, Owies
I/C: any of Fogarty/JSOS/Durdin/Cottrell

Cause on Gresham-money you want him starting, he's too expensive for depth.

Whichever player you drop, is Gresham enough of an upgrade to warrant the change? And even if he's an upgrade on ability, are you prepared to drop a bloke who has 100% bought into the new system and philosophy of the group and hope that Gresham proves less conditional than he's shown at St Kilda?

 

[ferrisb]

Gresham is on 6-700k with his current contract. Surely nobody will offer him that, but I doubt he'll sign for the cut it would tak him to get to Fisher's level.

No inside info, but reading between the lines from some ITK posters gives me the impression Fish is on $450-500K. And more likely the upper end of that.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

We were very set on Gresham but the way the small half forwards and Martin played over the second half of the season have turned him into what was probably seen as a need to really not being a must at all. Club has cooled significantly and I’d personally be stunned if we ended up with him now but that mail was legit at the time, things change.

It has been a great 10 weeks with improvement at HFF a massive part of that but surely we cannot rely on Martin and Cuningham to play 25 games each in 2024. We will more than likely shed Honey, Philp and Fisher at the end of the season, Fogarty may also be moved on, so I hope we look to bolster HFF through FA or trade. If it is Gresham that's great as he instantly improves our best 22 but any ready to go option will do me. Williams is one that may be tried there. I would personally keep Fisher unless we get a good deal but understand we need to move money around and North could set him up long term.

Austin has a good history in drafting these types. I am confident he will set us up well long term but I feel we could end up one or two short again next season if injuries strike and we haven't made moves.

 

[Blue__Balls]

It has been a great 10 weeks with improvement at HFF a massive part of that but surely we cannot rely on Martin and Cuningham to play 25 games each in 2024. We will more than likely shed Honey, Philp and Fisher at the end of the season, Fogarty may also be moved on, so I hope we look to bolster HFF through FA or trade. If it is Gresham that's great as he instantly improves our best 22 but any ready to go option will do me. Williams is one that may be tried there. I would personally keep Fisher unless we get a good deal but understand we need to move money around and North could set him up long term.

Austin has a good history in drafting these types. I am confident he will set us up well long term but I feel we could end up one or two short again next season if injuries strike and we haven't made moves.

See if the argument is that we need coverage for Cunners and Martin, I'd rather keep Fogarty on minimum chips, draft a medium forward on $120k, use the Fisher savings to front end a portion of Charlie, Cripps or Harry's contracts and bank some extra cap space for the inevitable contract growth of the rest of our young list. Doing so could, for example, be the difference between keeping or losing TDK at the end of 2025.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

See if the argument is that we need coverage for Cunners and Martin, I'd rather keep Fogarty on minimum chips, draft a medium forward on $120k, use the Fisher savings to front end a portion of Charlie, Cripps or Harry's contracts and bank some extra cap space for the inevitable contract growth of the rest of our young list. Doing so could, for example, be the difference between keeping or losing TDK at the end of 2025.

If we are happy for Fogarty or a draftee to play 16+ games in the unfortunately likely scenario where one or both of Cuningham or Martin get injured for an extended period of time, then that is fine, but I think the club will see it differently.

HFF is still a very shallow and delicate part of the ground at Carlton. Retaining Fisher and working to get him back to his ‘22 form, or adding Williams/Gresham/trade? to the mix would put me at ease. As would a draftee like Owens who adjusts to the level quickly (tough ask I know).

I don’t consider Motlop, Owies or Durdin as this type of player. I think they’re better suited closer to goal as they lack the productivity over four quarters. I have faith Mots will move up the ground in time but not right now.

 

[Garters]

If we are happy for Fogarty or a draftee to play 16+ games in the unfortunately likely scenario where one or both of Cuningham or Martin get injured for an extended period of time, then that is fine, but I think the club will see it differently.

HFF is still a very shallow and delicate part of the ground at Carlton. Retaining Fisher and working to get him back to his ‘22 form, or adding Williams/Gresham/trade? to the mix would put me at ease. As would a draftee like Owens who adjusts to the level quickly (tough ask I know).

I don’t consider Motlop, Owies or Durdin as this type of player. I think they’re better suited closer to goal as they lack the productivity over four quarters. I have faith Mots will move up the ground in time but not right now.

Unfortunately if Fisher was going to be that consistent HFF piece of the puzzle we desperately have needed, he would have got there by now. Unfortunately it is a move on and try something else. 107 games for 53 goals as a HFF over 7 seasons and only getting to double figure goals in a season once is not what you persist with as a HFF option. Would go the draft option / put time into Fog / Cunners etal and as you said Motlop in time moving further up.

 

[Shambolic]

Our fascination with Essendon being losers just undermines the mood; many couldn't care less. A rubbish club.

Based on our last 20 years we are -> Were rubbish and should be talking about the good clubs.

I've already been kicked off the other thread and told to 'read the room' but who honestly gives a toss about one of the bottom 4 clubs.... they're a joke, it's no claim to fame to be better than rubbish. Its a claim to fame to be in the 8 and a genuine chance.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Unfortunately if Fisher was going to be that consistent HFF piece of the puzzle we desperately have needed, he would have got there by now. Unfortunately it is a move on and try something else. 107 games for 53 goals as a HFF over 7 seasons and only getting to double figure goals in a season once is not what you persist with as a HFF option. Would go the draft option / put time into Fog / Cunners etal and as you said Motlop in time moving further up.

In 2022 Fish finished 8th in the best and fairest, avg 19 disposals and kicked 18 goals for the year. Not far off that much vaunted “20+1” stat line that only a handful of players reach every season. There is definitely a great HFF there somewhere and I am disappointed it has come to this point only 12 months later.

I agree he will move on/be moved on at the end of the season. My concern is that we don’t replace him with AFL quality. Time will tell.

 

[Garters]

In 2022 Fish finished 8th in the best and fairest, avg 19 disposals and kicked 18 goals for the year. Not far off that much vaunted “20+1” stat line that only a handful of players reach every season. There is definitely a great HFF there somewhere and I am disappointed it has come to this point only 12 months later.

I agree he will move on/be moved on at the end of the season. My concern is that we don’t replace him with AFL quality. Time will tell.

Is a classic case of talent will only get you so far.

 

[Earls Smother]

Our fascination with Essendon being losers just undermines the mood; many couldn't care less. A rubbish club.

Based on our last 20 years we are -> Were rubbish and should be talking about the good clubs.

I've already been kicked off the other thread and told to 'read the room' but who honestly gives a toss about one of the bottom 4 clubs.... they're a joke, it's no claim to fame to be better than rubbish. Its a claim to fame to be in the 8 and a genuine chance.

Totally agree. Primary school stuff.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Totally agree. Primary school stuff.

You could say that about footy full stop.

 

[V_23]

Elijah Hollands worth a look, if we end up losing Dow and Fisher?

 

[teddy-hopkins]

It has been a great 10 weeks with improvement at HFF a massive part of that but surely we cannot rely on Martin and Cuningham to play 25 games each in 2024. We will more than likely shed Honey, Philp and Fisher at the end of the season, Fogarty may also be moved on, so I hope we look to bolster HFF through FA or trade. If it is Gresham that's great as he instantly improves our best 22 but any ready to go option will do me. Williams is one that may be tried there. I would personally keep Fisher unless we get a good deal but understand we need to move money around and North could set him up long term.

Austin has a good history in drafting these types. I am confident he will set us up well long term but I feel we could end up one or two short again next season if injuries strike and we haven't made moves.

I agree but the way Cunningham in particular has played has definitely impacted our chase of Gresham. His salary / list spot not opening up limits our ability to fit Gresham in and cunners is 100% not getting desisted now. 6 weeks ago yes.

Which is good.

I still think our biggest issue is pace through the midfield and ruckman.

If De Koning takes the next step that solves one problem but either way we've committed ourselves to TDK and pitto now.

Speedy midfielders are hard to come by in a trade. Always plenty of slow ones available.

So I anticipate us going to the draft again and going for speed unless a quick cheap mid pops up in a trade. Ollie's brother maybe?

 

[Magruder]

Elijah Hollands worth a look, if we end up losing Dow and Fisher?

I‘d be prepared to lose both to reunite the Hollands boys

 

[TENACIOUS]

I agree but the way Cunningham in particular has played has definitely impacted our chase of Gresham. His salary / list spot not opening up limits our ability to fit Gresham in and cunners is 100% not getting desisted now. 6 weeks ago yes.

Which is good.

I still think our biggest issue is pace through the midfield and ruckman.

If De Koning takes the next step that solves one problem but either way we've committed ourselves to TDK and pitto now.

Speedy midfielders are hard to come by in a trade. Always plenty of slow ones available.

So I anticipate us going to the draft again and going for speed unless a quick cheap mid pops up in a trade. Ollie's brother maybe?

I'm pretty excited about Cuningham in 2024...

His 2023 reminds me of Charlies 2021...
Coming back from a long time out of the game and understandably struggled a bit with the pace of the game and not quite fit enough...

A big pre-season and continuity will see Cunners go ballistic in 2024...

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I'm pretty excited about Cuningham in 2024...

His 2023 reminds me of Charlies 2021...
Coming back from a long time out of the game and understandably struggled a bit with the pace of the game and not quite fit enough...

A big pre-season and continuity will see Cunners go ballistic in 2024...

Cunners has been a bit up and down but that is the story of his career. IF - he can ever get through a full preseason and IF he can start to produce closer to his best there is a legitimate AA level player in terms of talent.

Seems like the type of guy who wouldn't be phased by the big occasion so I'm hoping he can pull out a bit finals series.

 

[Schoonerman]

Cunnas has got Norm Smith written all over him
I feel we are just scratching the surface with him
Geez needs some bloody good luck and continuity..

 

[RAPPA]

Cuners has the potential to have a breakout season next year if the body holds up. But if you're looking at who Gresham would have to replace in our starting 22 as a HF with midfield stints, I'd say it's Cuningham. Again, I am not saying that Cuningham should be replaced by Gresham, but imo they're the closest to like for like, noting also they are very similar in age.

 

[Crippa#9]

I'm pretty excited about Cuningham in 2024...

His 2023 reminds me of Charlies 2021...
Coming back from a long time out of the game and understandably struggled a bit with the pace of the game and not quite fit enough...

A big pre-season and continuity will see Cunners go ballistic in 2024...

100%

 

[Arr0w]

Cuners has immense xfactor and even parking his injury history, he still struggles to read the unfolding play, where he is dormant for large chunks of the game

To get the best out of him, I feel he needs more rotation minutes onball

 

[Dramoth]

Cuners has the potential to have a breakout season next year if the body holds up. But if you're looking at who Gresham would have to replace in our starting 22 as a HF with midfield stints, I'd say it's Cuningham. Again, I am not saying that Cuningham should be replaced by Gresham, but imo they're the closest to like for like, noting also they are very similar in age.

Taken in the same draft. I was a Gresham fan back then. I was pissed when the Aints took him at 18. However, we then took Cuningham, who if he gets his body right is going to eclipse Gresham by a mile.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Cuners has immense xfactor and even parking his injury history, he still struggles to read the unfolding play, where he is dormant for large chunks of the game

To get the best out of him, I feel he needs more rotation minutes onball

I agree....the best games I've seen Cunners play have been as a mid. His burst out of stoppages gives us that point of difference.

And with Ed retiring, and the futures of Dow and Philp at Carlton cloudy at best, we may be losing three mids in one hit....so Cunners may well see a bit more midfield time with a full preseason under his belt.

Which is why I'm also red hot on us either trading in or drafting a genuine mid size forward this year. I still reckon Gresham may be in the mix at the right price, but would definitely be looking at one of Tholstrup/Delean/Sanchez in the draft.

Which is also why re-signing JSOS should be a priority to give us that 3rd marking option up forward.

 

[RPCB]

I bought one of those Carlton garden gnomes and it got delivered to my nextdoor neighbour. The Carlton supporters. I might not have seen it ever again if they opened it.