- Mar 20, 2017
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And this rant is based on an internet rumour which in all probability is highly unlikely to happen?
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Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun
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Can't imagine that Rachele would genuinely want out anyway but fun to dream. He is the perfect type I'd be spending that currency on - ahead of the Houston / Trac types.
Grab Haynes, draft a few non-raw KPPs and bring in Rachele + potentially a Rosas/Konstanty. If it means we lose Owies but gain Rachele, I'm okay with that despite loving Matty O. Only scenario I'd be happy to lose our boy.
Grab Haynes, draft a few non-raw KPPs and bring in Rachele + potentially a Rosas/Konstanty. If it means we lose Owies but gain Rachele, I'm okay with that despite loving Matty O. Only scenario I'd be happy to lose our boy.
JJBagger
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- Sep 6, 2022
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You mean like he’s done with Hollands and Cowan? 2 teenagers
No. What is happening now is no one is leaving but we are bringing in another 20 quality players. Impressive
Yes but Hawthorn and Geelong build the foundation with role players drafted beyond the first round or value trades. Their high cost trades fill final missing pieces. Carlton refuse to first build the foundation of the list and then enter panic mode and over pay for a quick fix which is usually a player over 26 on a 4+ year contract who plays on a flank
- Mar 25, 2019
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Refuse to build the foundation... What were Cripps, Curnow, Mckay, Weitering, Walsh and Docherty?
Pretty sure that's about as good a foundation as there is in the AFL, issue is our trades haven't all worked out in Williams, Martin, Mcgovern etc
- Jun 4, 2016
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Holland's? The guy who was run into the ground and couldn't move? Or because doch was injured and we had no other wing on the list? Or how about rotating Ollie with Binns to keep them both fresher? No?
Cowan was one of Voss favourite scapegoats for a while. Up down up down.
Having two players forced to play doesn't counter what I've said. The whole season is defined by what I implied. It's nonsense to head in sand deny it
- Jun 4, 2016
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I think there's a large element of coaching hasn't worked out either - poor fundamentals, hit or miss system, HP team etc etc.
Although I think Govs been a fine pickup considering everything.
Williams and Martin - good blokes but yeah..... Ooof
- Mar 25, 2019
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Gov for the large part was a massive bust. Only come good in the last couple of years after rocking up unfit over and over and getting injured 24/7
JJBagger
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He doesn’t rate either of them because they’re kids according to you though?
I was thinking last night about that, we have probably the best spine/foundation in the AFL.
2 Coleman medallists, A Brownlow Medal winner (potentially 2x...), a Finals MVP (not sure of the actual award name, but Walsh) & an AA Full Back (who should be a 3x AA FB by now...). No other team in the comp can compare to that.
If we don't win a premiership with that spine/foundation then we have ballsed things up catastrophically, we absolutely should be adding any piece around it we can to maximise right now as that's an all-time great set up we're letting die on the vine.
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- Mar 25, 2019
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Really all the list Team need to be able to do is pick some quality flankers and the coach should barely have to lift a thumb. Instead we're stuck with some seriously ordinary individuals on the field each week and make playing footy look like pushing s*** up a hill
- Oct 4, 2015
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He played 15 games this year? Often subbed out, didn't really have much impact apart from a select few games.
You're right that he has age on his side but should he request a trade to WC, I think we'll be lucky to get a pick in the 30's for him.
I guess time will tell...
Blue and Silver
Brownlow Medallist
My first mooted trade scenario... you know its preseason. I can smell it.
This is further to the disgruntled small forward chatter... did I read a while ago a mooted 3-way trade with the Suns? This is also working off rumour of Martin wanting to go back to QLD.
I wonder if something like this would be in Austin's thinking...
GC give Lukosius, Pick 34 receive CAR F1, Jack Martin
CAR give F1, Jack Martin, receive Rachele
ADE give Rachele, receive Lukosius, Pick 34
Who says no?
This is further to the disgruntled small forward chatter... did I read a while ago a mooted 3-way trade with the Suns? This is also working off rumour of Martin wanting to go back to QLD.
I wonder if something like this would be in Austin's thinking...
GC give Lukosius, Pick 34 receive CAR F1, Jack Martin
CAR give F1, Jack Martin, receive Rachele
ADE give Rachele, receive Lukosius, Pick 34
Who says no?
I'm low-key hoping he blows his contract up with the AFL by claiming a breach of duty of care and walks for peanuts to Carlton haha
Jatz
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- Sep 7, 2008
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Jack Martin I'm guessing.
bradfisher14
Not actually Brad Fisher
Crows IMO. They would argue Rachele is much more valuable than Luko who seems to not be part of Hardwick's plans.
CarmenSandiego
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- Apr 23, 2024
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It's also 2 players over a 3-year stint... that's not exactly something to ride home about.
Actually goes against the argument the poster was trying to make.
I hear you,although due to a Premiership getting harder to win,i'd take A flag at this stage and build on that.
it's 30 next year since our last Premiership,too long a go.
JJBagger
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Motlop and Durdin have been largely mainstays since Voss has come in, and they were teenagers when he started
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Angus Schumacher, Tom Williamson, Cameron Polson, Lochie O Brien, Jesse Glass-McKasker, Andrew Gallucci, Matt Korcheck, Sam Petrevski-Seton, Harrison Macreadie, Patrick Kerr, Kym LeBois, Liam Stocker, Finbar O’Dwyer, Ben Silvagni, Sam Philp, Sam Ramsey, Josh Honey, Fraser Phillips, Luke Parks.
From 2016 onwards. With some of the picks we’ve had, it’s pretty bad. This is disregarding others who will join this list soon, as well as the rookie pickups as recycled players from other clubs. We have a base and core. We drafted and developed some great players. But we botched more than we have gotten right. And it’s not about the number of the pick, we have seen high picks mean shit if you can’t identify and develop accordingly.
I guess my point is, the drafting, especially of higher picks and abilities, is as bad if not more as some of the recruiting we have done. We should be getting players from other clubs through the door, why shy away from a player like Houston or any proven AFL player who wants to come to us? We should entertain it, ONLY if it makes sense cap wise and team wise to do so. For me it’s on Austin and Agresta to make sure they identify and use our draft picks well. I’m not convinced still even though I feel much safer with Austin than I did with SOS at the helm.
The list above, if a quarter of those names were successful draftees, we would be having a different conversation right now.
From 2016 onwards. With some of the picks we’ve had, it’s pretty bad. This is disregarding others who will join this list soon, as well as the rookie pickups as recycled players from other clubs. We have a base and core. We drafted and developed some great players. But we botched more than we have gotten right. And it’s not about the number of the pick, we have seen high picks mean shit if you can’t identify and develop accordingly.
I guess my point is, the drafting, especially of higher picks and abilities, is as bad if not more as some of the recruiting we have done. We should be getting players from other clubs through the door, why shy away from a player like Houston or any proven AFL player who wants to come to us? We should entertain it, ONLY if it makes sense cap wise and team wise to do so. For me it’s on Austin and Agresta to make sure they identify and use our draft picks well. I’m not convinced still even though I feel much safer with Austin than I did with SOS at the helm.
The list above, if a quarter of those names were successful draftees, we would be having a different conversation right now.
Anddddddd he ends up at Collingwood(the team he grew up supporting,apparently?),who had no capital 2 weeks ago? Is this how it goes? Haha
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Probably need to look at those recruitments through the lens of cost, if we're being fair.
Gov was a couple of second rounders, Williams was a free agent and Martin was PSD. We no doubt overpaid all of them to some degree in terms of salary, which at least in the case of the latter two was the price you pay for getting them without having to use draft picks.
During the time they've been on the list, I don't think we've lost anyone of note who we couldn't afford to pay appropriately, so they haven't cost us any of our own players. We've also been able to bring in other noteworthy players (ie. Hewett, Cerra, Acres, Saad, Hollands), so we haven't overcommitted to the "busts" in a way that prevented us addressing other needs.
Means the alternative to those players was basically just other free agents. We can run through the list of free agents since 2018 and evaluate whether they were a) viable, b) suitable and c) worthwhile.
2018:
Tom Lynch - Richmond - would have been a great get, but he was chasing a flag and we were shite
Scott Lycett - Port - solid ruck who never played a full season after moving, probably doesn't do much for us
Luke Dahlhaus - Geelong - solid role player, but retired in 2022
Reece Conca - Fremantle - solid role player but delisted in 2021 and never picked up
2019:
Brandon Ellis - GC - by all accounts we were in the frame, was good for the Suns for a few years but fell away in the last couple and retired earlier this season
Adam Tomlinson - Melbourne - depth player at best, unclear role
Grant Birchall - Brisbane - only had a couple of seasons in him, retired in 2021
Cam Ellis-Yolmen - Brisbane - played half a season with Brisbane, then retired due to Covid
2020:
Isaac Smith - Geelong - would have been an excellent pickup, think he was chasing a flag though and we weren't in that position
Joe Daniher - Brisbane - wanted to get out of VIC, never a chance
Brad Crouch - St Kilda - injury prone and unsuitable for our list needs
Aidan Corr - North - has been OK for North, would have filled a need for us, but is only an average player, unclear how much NM had to pay him to convince him to come over, could have been an expensive recruitment
Rory Atkins - GC - average role player, averaged less than 10 games a year with GC
Shaun McKernan - St Kilda - played four games then "retired" because he wasn't offered a new contract (ie. delisted...)
2021:
Jake Kelly - Essendon - basically another Plowman, retired earlier this year
Mabior Chol - GC - didn't click at GC, since traded to Hawthorn, probably a handy player though and one we could have used.
Luke Dunstan - Melbourne - not good and not what we need, also managed a handful of games then did an ACL and retired
Tim O'Brien - WB - depth player, 18 games in two years then delisted
2022:
Karl Amon - Hawthorn - consistent player for the Hawks over the last two seasons, could have used him
Jayden Hunt - WC - consistent player for the Eagles, but nothing particularly special, might have been fringe for us
Dan McStay - Collingwood - decent role player but injury prone and unclear whether he'd have fit our 22.
Zaine Cordy - St Kilda - depth player, could have been KPD depth for us I guess, but nothing more
2023:
Ben McKay - Essendon - fills a need and is an OK player, but not elite, could have used him
Jade Gresham - Essendon - probably better than most of our smalls, but not by a whole lot, wouldn't say no but not upset about missing him
Todd Goldstein - Essendon - I wouldn't have minded him in a playing ruck coach role with TDK, better than Pitto
James Jordon - Sydney - OK role player at best, not really a type we need though
Matt Flynn - WC - played 4 games this year
Joel Hamling - Sydney - hasn't played this year, no idea where he is
Tom Doedee - Brisbane - ACL in preseason, hasn't played this year
Based on that - I reckon you could make something of a case for us being better off swapping Martin, Williams and/or McGovern for a few of Aidan Corr (probably overpaid), Mabior Chol (who has only really come good this year), Karl Amon (solid), Jayden Hunt (ordinary), Ben McKay (solid), Jade Gresham (solid) and Todd Goldstein (short term only but pushes Pitto out).
We may have been a little better off, but I don't think any of those guys would have made much difference (besides McKay).
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