Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXV - 'Loopy' Season has begun

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
Reader mode
Faucon Bleu said:
Carlton being Carlton, stupid and idiotic, what a pathetic club we have become, but this is no surprise 29 years of failure and still doing the same wonderful things still looking for a messiah.
Click to expand...
And this rant is based on an internet rumour which in all probability is highly unlikely to happen?
 
Can't imagine that Rachele would genuinely want out anyway but fun to dream. He is the perfect type I'd be spending that currency on - ahead of the Houston / Trac types.

Grab Haynes, draft a few non-raw KPPs and bring in Rachele + potentially a Rosas/Konstanty. If it means we lose Owies but gain Rachele, I'm okay with that despite loving Matty O. Only scenario I'd be happy to lose our boy.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Ninja Worrier said:
Cats are adding bailey Smith, hawks barrass and battle, reckon the pies would be chasing Trac if they had the capital.

It's balanced list management between trading and drafting. The key is doing it smart and not blowing up our draft hand as far as possible
Click to expand...
Yes but Hawthorn and Geelong build the foundation with role players drafted beyond the first round or value trades. Their high cost trades fill final missing pieces. Carlton refuse to first build the foundation of the list and then enter panic mode and over pay for a quick fix which is usually a player over 26 on a 4+ year contract who plays on a flank
 
Michael Jezz said:
Yes but Hawthorn and Geelong build the foundation with role players drafted beyond the first round or value trades. Their high cost trades fill final missing pieces. Carlton refuse to first build the foundation of the list and then enter panic mode and over pay for a quick fix which is usually a player over 26 on a 4+ year contract who plays on a flank
Click to expand...
Refuse to build the foundation... What were Cripps, Curnow, Mckay, Weitering, Walsh and Docherty?

Pretty sure that's about as good a foundation as there is in the AFL, issue is our trades haven't all worked out in Williams, Martin, Mcgovern etc
 
JJBagger said:
You mean like he’s done with Hollands and Cowan? 2 teenagers
Click to expand...
Holland's? The guy who was run into the ground and couldn't move? Or because doch was injured and we had no other wing on the list? Or how about rotating Ollie with Binns to keep them both fresher? No?

Cowan was one of Voss favourite scapegoats for a while. Up down up down.

Having two players forced to play doesn't counter what I've said. The whole season is defined by what I implied. It's nonsense to head in sand deny it
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
Refuse to build the foundation... What were Cripps, Curnow, Mckay, Weitering, Walsh and Docherty?

Pretty sure that's about as good a foundation as there is in the AFL, issue is our trades haven't all worked out in Williams, Martin, Mcgovern etc
Click to expand...
I think there's a large element of coaching hasn't worked out either - poor fundamentals, hit or miss system, HP team etc etc.

Although I think Govs been a fine pickup considering everything.
Williams and Martin - good blokes but yeah..... Ooof
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
I think there's a large element of coaching hasn't worked out either - poor fundamentals, hit or miss system, HP team etc etc.

Although I think Govs been a fine pickup considering everything.
Williams and Martin - good blokes but yeah..... Ooof
Click to expand...
Gov for the large part was a massive bust. Only come good in the last couple of years after rocking up unfit over and over and getting injured 24/7
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
Holland's? The guy who was run into the ground and couldn't move? Or because doch was injured and we had no other wing on the list? Or how about rotating Ollie with Binns to keep them both fresher? No?

Cowan was one of Voss favourite scapegoats for a while. Up down up down.

Having two players forced to play doesn't counter what I've said. The whole season is defined by what I implied. It's nonsense to head in sand deny it
Click to expand...
He doesn’t rate either of them because they’re kids according to you though?
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
Refuse to build the foundation... What were Cripps, Curnow, Mckay, Weitering, Walsh and Docherty?

Pretty sure that's about as good a foundation as there is in the AFL, issue is our trades haven't all worked out in Williams, Martin, Mcgovern etc
Click to expand...
I was thinking last night about that, we have probably the best spine/foundation in the AFL.

2 Coleman medallists, A Brownlow Medal winner (potentially 2x...), a Finals MVP (not sure of the actual award name, but Walsh) & an AA Full Back (who should be a 3x AA FB by now...). No other team in the comp can compare to that.

If we don't win a premiership with that spine/foundation then we have ballsed things up catastrophically, we absolutely should be adding any piece around it we can to maximise right now as that's an all-time great set up we're letting die on the vine.
 
Last edited:
Coops93 said:
I was thinking last night about that, we have probably the best "spine" in the AFL.

2 Coleman medallists, A Brownlow Medal winner (potentially 2x...) & a Finals MVP (not sure of the actual award name, but Walsh) & an AA Full Back (who should be a 3x AA FB by now...). No other team in the comp can compare to that.

If we don't win a premiership with that spine we have ballsed things up catastrophically, we absolutely should be adding any piece around it we can to maximise right now as that's an all-time great set up we're letting die on the vine.
Click to expand...
Really all the list Team need to be able to do is pick some quality flankers and the coach should barely have to lift a thumb. Instead we're stuck with some seriously ordinary individuals on the field each week and make playing footy look like pushing s*** up a hill
 
Michael Jezz said:
Yes but Hawthorn and Geelong build the foundation with role players drafted beyond the first round or value trades. Their high cost trades fill final missing pieces. Carlton refuse to first build the foundation of the list and then enter panic mode and over pay for a quick fix which is usually a player over 26 on a 4+ year contract who plays on a flank
Click to expand...
Didn’t we draft
Weitering
Cripps
Harry
Charlie
TDK

Looks like a good foundation
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Forty3 said:
West Coast have their hands full with getting a couple of Richmond player.
Although, quite impressively and respectfully both Baker and Bolton have told the Tigers the just want to get to WA, and haven't designated a club.

Given the West Coast currently only have 3, 23 and 59. None of those picks would be appropriate for a Carroll trade.

I'd assume there will be a lot of pick swapping going on, especially with GC wanting Rioli.

Carroll was very highly rated in WA as a junior, was loved by East Freo.

I don't know for sure if he is actually going to leave, but i think we will get a pick at least in the 30s for him.
He's shown he can play at the level and he's a bottom ager with a big upside.

This won't be a Dow/Setterfield type trade. More of a Zac Fisher trade. If he does leave.
Click to expand...

He played 15 games this year? Often subbed out, didn't really have much impact apart from a select few games.

You're right that he has age on his side but should he request a trade to WC, I think we'll be lucky to get a pick in the 30's for him.

I guess time will tell...
 
Blue and Silver said:
I am going to play Nostradamus.

Melbourne deny they will trade him.

They start getting linked with high value players all over the comp. Mac Andrew, Max King, Ben King etc.

Finals ramps up, and the noise around Trac dies down.

Brownlow night, he doesn't show, teammates look awkward when he gets votes.

Day or so after GF, Melbourne says they will have chats, but intend to keep Christian.

Will they, won't they for the whole of trade week.

Big deal lands on the last day or so where Christian gets traded and Melbourne land a target or two as well as draft picks.

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
I am still sticking with this

On Pixel 7a using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
My first mooted trade scenario... you know its preseason. I can smell it.

This is further to the disgruntled small forward chatter... did I read a while ago a mooted 3-way trade with the Suns? This is also working off rumour of Martin wanting to go back to QLD.

I wonder if something like this would be in Austin's thinking...

GC give Lukosius, Pick 34 receive CAR F1, Jack Martin
CAR give F1, Jack Martin, receive Rachele
ADE give Rachele, receive Lukosius, Pick 34

Who says no?
 
Matty411 said:
My first mooted trade scenario... you know its preseason. I can smell it.

This is further to the disgruntled small forward chatter... did I read a while ago a mooted 3-way trade with the Suns? This is also working off rumour of Martin wanting to go back to QLD.

I wonder if something like this would be in Austin's thinking...

GC give Lukosius, Pick 34 receive CAR F1, Jack Martin
CAR give F1, Jack Martin, receive Rachele
ADE give Rachele, receive Lukosius, Pick 34

Who says no?
Click to expand...
Jack Martin I'm guessing.
 
Matty411 said:
My first mooted trade scenario... you know its preseason. I can smell it.

This is further to the disgruntled small forward chatter... did I read a while ago a mooted 3-way trade with the Suns? This is also working off rumour of Martin wanting to go back to QLD.

I wonder if something like this would be in Austin's thinking...

GC give Lukosius, Pick 34 receive CAR F1, Jack Martin
CAR give F1, Jack Martin, receive Rachele
ADE give Rachele, receive Lukosius, Pick 34

Who says no?
Click to expand...
Crows IMO. They would argue Rachele is much more valuable than Luko who seems to not be part of Hardwick's plans.
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
Holland's? The guy who was run into the ground and couldn't move? Or because doch was injured and we had no other wing on the list? Or how about rotating Ollie with Binns to keep them both fresher? No?

Cowan was one of Voss favourite scapegoats for a while. Up down up down.

Having two players forced to play doesn't counter what I've said. The whole season is defined by what I implied. It's nonsense to head in sand deny it
Click to expand...

It's also 2 players over a 3-year stint... that's not exactly something to ride home about.

Actually goes against the argument the poster was trying to make.
 
blues4flag said:
I've been a big advocate of trading but we've only picked up one first rounder in the last 4 drafts. Hollands at 11, next next Moir at 29. The previous top 15 pick before Hollands was Walsh.

We still need to bring in top level talent into the club if we want sustained success. Hopefully we're going for a Geelong / Sydney / Collingwood model of competing year after year, rather than going all out for a 2 year window.
Click to expand...
I hear you,although due to a Premiership getting harder to win,i'd take A flag at this stage and build on that.
it's 30 next year since our last Premiership,too long a go.
 
Angus Schumacher, Tom Williamson, Cameron Polson, Lochie O Brien, Jesse Glass-McKasker, Andrew Gallucci, Matt Korcheck, Sam Petrevski-Seton, Harrison Macreadie, Patrick Kerr, Kym LeBois, Liam Stocker, Finbar O’Dwyer, Ben Silvagni, Sam Philp, Sam Ramsey, Josh Honey, Fraser Phillips, Luke Parks.

From 2016 onwards. With some of the picks we’ve had, it’s pretty bad. This is disregarding others who will join this list soon, as well as the rookie pickups as recycled players from other clubs. We have a base and core. We drafted and developed some great players. But we botched more than we have gotten right. And it’s not about the number of the pick, we have seen high picks mean shit if you can’t identify and develop accordingly.

I guess my point is, the drafting, especially of higher picks and abilities, is as bad if not more as some of the recruiting we have done. We should be getting players from other clubs through the door, why shy away from a player like Houston or any proven AFL player who wants to come to us? We should entertain it, ONLY if it makes sense cap wise and team wise to do so. For me it’s on Austin and Agresta to make sure they identify and use our draft picks well. I’m not convinced still even though I feel much safer with Austin than I did with SOS at the helm.

The list above, if a quarter of those names were successful draftees, we would be having a different conversation right now.
 
SkyhorseTamer said:
I think there's a large element of coaching hasn't worked out either - poor fundamentals, hit or miss system, HP team etc etc.

Although I think Govs been a fine pickup considering everything.
Williams and Martin - good blokes but yeah..... Ooof
Click to expand...

Probably need to look at those recruitments through the lens of cost, if we're being fair.

Gov was a couple of second rounders, Williams was a free agent and Martin was PSD. We no doubt overpaid all of them to some degree in terms of salary, which at least in the case of the latter two was the price you pay for getting them without having to use draft picks.

During the time they've been on the list, I don't think we've lost anyone of note who we couldn't afford to pay appropriately, so they haven't cost us any of our own players. We've also been able to bring in other noteworthy players (ie. Hewett, Cerra, Acres, Saad, Hollands), so we haven't overcommitted to the "busts" in a way that prevented us addressing other needs.

Means the alternative to those players was basically just other free agents. We can run through the list of free agents since 2018 and evaluate whether they were a) viable, b) suitable and c) worthwhile.

2018:
Tom Lynch - Richmond - would have been a great get, but he was chasing a flag and we were shite
Scott Lycett - Port - solid ruck who never played a full season after moving, probably doesn't do much for us
Luke Dahlhaus - Geelong - solid role player, but retired in 2022
Reece Conca - Fremantle - solid role player but delisted in 2021 and never picked up

2019:
Brandon Ellis - GC - by all accounts we were in the frame, was good for the Suns for a few years but fell away in the last couple and retired earlier this season
Adam Tomlinson - Melbourne - depth player at best, unclear role
Grant Birchall - Brisbane - only had a couple of seasons in him, retired in 2021
Cam Ellis-Yolmen - Brisbane - played half a season with Brisbane, then retired due to Covid

2020:
Isaac Smith - Geelong - would have been an excellent pickup, think he was chasing a flag though and we weren't in that position
Joe Daniher - Brisbane - wanted to get out of VIC, never a chance
Brad Crouch - St Kilda - injury prone and unsuitable for our list needs
Aidan Corr - North - has been OK for North, would have filled a need for us, but is only an average player, unclear how much NM had to pay him to convince him to come over, could have been an expensive recruitment
Rory Atkins - GC - average role player, averaged less than 10 games a year with GC
Shaun McKernan - St Kilda - played four games then "retired" because he wasn't offered a new contract (ie. delisted...)

2021:
Jake Kelly - Essendon - basically another Plowman, retired earlier this year
Mabior Chol - GC - didn't click at GC, since traded to Hawthorn, probably a handy player though and one we could have used.
Luke Dunstan - Melbourne - not good and not what we need, also managed a handful of games then did an ACL and retired
Tim O'Brien - WB - depth player, 18 games in two years then delisted

2022:
Karl Amon - Hawthorn - consistent player for the Hawks over the last two seasons, could have used him
Jayden Hunt - WC - consistent player for the Eagles, but nothing particularly special, might have been fringe for us
Dan McStay - Collingwood - decent role player but injury prone and unclear whether he'd have fit our 22.
Zaine Cordy - St Kilda - depth player, could have been KPD depth for us I guess, but nothing more

2023:
Ben McKay - Essendon - fills a need and is an OK player, but not elite, could have used him
Jade Gresham - Essendon - probably better than most of our smalls, but not by a whole lot, wouldn't say no but not upset about missing him
Todd Goldstein - Essendon - I wouldn't have minded him in a playing ruck coach role with TDK, better than Pitto
James Jordon - Sydney - OK role player at best, not really a type we need though
Matt Flynn - WC - played 4 games this year
Joel Hamling - Sydney - hasn't played this year, no idea where he is
Tom Doedee - Brisbane - ACL in preseason, hasn't played this year


Based on that - I reckon you could make something of a case for us being better off swapping Martin, Williams and/or McGovern for a few of Aidan Corr (probably overpaid), Mabior Chol (who has only really come good this year), Karl Amon (solid), Jayden Hunt (ordinary), Ben McKay (solid), Jade Gresham (solid) and Todd Goldstein (short term only but pushes Pitto out).

We may have been a little better off, but I don't think any of those guys would have made much difference (besides McKay).
 
Reader mode
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

The Old Dark Navy's
  • Sticky
Injury Blue Healers - No Discussion Injury Thread - Heart & Pride - Season Ending Injury
2
Replies
28
Views
9K
The Old Dark Navy's
The Old Dark Navy's
The Old Dark Navy's
Analysis 2024 Season Review
2 3
Replies
65
Views
3K
Rosscoe 17
R
B
Analysis What has happened since quarter time in Round 17?
2
Replies
39
Views
2K
Mentallo
Mentallo
Aphrodite
  • Locked
Game Day Rnd 16 - 🏈 Carlton v Richmond Game Day Discussion 🏈
31 32 33 34 35
Replies
870
Views
14K
Gethelred
Gethelred
Aphrodite
Injury Blue Healers Discussion - 2024
168 169 170 171 172
Replies
4K
Views
295K
TENACIOUS
TENACIOUS
The Old Dark Navy's
  • Poll
Autopsy 2024 Rd 21 Carlton vs Collingwood 3 point loss - is our season over?
34 35 36 37 38
Replies
940
Views
37K
CarmenSandiego
C
Aphrodite
List Mgmt. Mid Season Draft 2024 - From 7PM Wed 29th May Live on afl.com.au
28 29 30 31 32
Replies
791
Views
55K
Bamboo Harvester
Bamboo Harvester

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top