Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[jooce8891]

2018 hindsight draft 1st round (ymmv):

1 Walsh (1)
2 Butters (12)
3 Rozee (5)
4 Blakey (10)
5 Hill (24)
6 Smith (7)
7 Rowbottom (25)
8 J McInerney (44)
9 Briggs (34)
10 B King (6)
11 Rankine (3)
12 Quaynor (13)
13 M King (4)
14 Bedford (75)
15 J Clark (15)
16 Lukosius (2)
17 Answerth (55)
18 Idun (61)
19 Sparrow (27)
20 T Berry (36)
21 Caldwell (11)
22 West (26)
23 Jordon (33)

others:
Thomas (8)
C Jones (9)
Hately (14)
McHenry (16)
Sturt (17)
Duursma (18)
Stocker (19)
Collier-Dawkins (20)
Finbar O'Dwyer (66)
Ben Silvagni (70)

underrating max king a fair bit here

 

[Ezayyak]

Cannot emphasise enough the importance of ball movement, overlap, one-two-three handballs. Brisbane were moving the ball exquisitely in the second half. The no look handballs, the overlap, the 3 players on the boundary line with cleans hands getting the ball 30 metres down the line before bringing it inboard to a player running past.

We do NOT play this way. We win the ball through individual brilliance ie Cripps busting a pack, TDK ripping it out of the ruck duel etc. The contest, contest, contest method won't last a whole season, it is too taxing.

We really, really need to build a better ball moving system.

 

[Coona Blues]

2018 hindsight draft 1st round (ymmv):

1 Walsh (1)
2 Butters (12)
3 Rozee (5)
4 Blakey (10)
5 Hill (24)
6 Smith (7)
7 Rowbottom (25)
8 J McInerney (44)
9 Briggs (34)
10 B King (6)
11 Rankine (3)
12 Quaynor (13)
13 M King (4)
14 Bedford (75)
15 J Clark (15)
16 Lukosius (2)
17 Answerth (55)
18 Idun (61)
19 Sparrow (27)
20 T Berry (36)
21 Caldwell (11)
22 West (26)
23 Jordon (33)

others:
Thomas (8)
C Jones (9)
Hately (14)
McHenry (16)
Sturt (17)
Duursma (18)
Stocker (19)
Collier-Dawkins (20)
Finbar O'Dwyer (66)
Ben Silvagni (70)

As others have said, Rankine too low. The other is Idun, dramatically under rated outside the west of Sydney, top 10, or horribly close.

 

[carlton_99]

As others have said, Rankine too low. The other is Idun, dramatically under rated outside the west of Sydney, top 10, or horribly close.

Best small/mid-sized defender in the comp - that GWS backline headed by Taylor/Buckley/Himmelberg/Idun is a bit of a joke.

 

[Bletch]

underrating max king a fair bit here

Not imo. But can understand some might value him higher. Where would you have him?

 

[Rustica]

underrating max king a fair bit here

he is garbage

 

[Arr0w]

2018 hindsight draft 1st round (ymmv):

1 Walsh (1)
2 Butters (12)
3 Rozee (5)
4 Blakey (10)
5 Hill (24)
6 Smith (7)
7 Rowbottom (25)
8 J McInerney (44)
9 Briggs (34)
10 B King (6)
11 Rankine (3)
12 Quaynor (13)
13 M King (4)
14 Bedford (75)
15 J Clark (15)
16 Lukosius (2)
17 Answerth (55)
18 Idun (61)
19 Sparrow (27)
20 T Berry (36)
21 Caldwell (11)
22 West (26)
23 Jordon (33)

others:
Thomas (8)
C Jones (9)
Hately (14)
McHenry (16)
Sturt (17)
Duursma (18)
Stocker (19)
Collier-Dawkins (20)
Finbar O'Dwyer (66)
Ben Silvagni (70)

Talent ID is the toughest gig in footy, anyone that can come close to picking the best player at every pick would be a millionaire 40 times over

List Mgmt. - Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

How many list spots do we have available? Out: Byrne, Lamb, Graham, Kerridge, ASOS (rookie), Rowe, JGM (rookie), Wright. In: setterfield, mcgovern, fasolo, Newman Does that leave 2 list spots and 2 rookie spots? Don’t we need to draft 3 players minumum in national draft or van that be over...

www.bigfooty.com

Final rankings for output and impact at the next level

1 Lukosius
2 Blakey
3 B.Smith
4 B.King
5 Caldwell
6 Walsh
7 Rozee
8 Rankine
9 M. King
10 Jones
11 McHenry
12 West
13 Clark
14 Hately
15 Williams
16 Stocker
17 Thomas
18 O'Halloran
19 Valente
20 Butters
21 McLennan
22 Dawkins
23 Taylor
24 Hill
25 Scott
26 Duursma
27 McFadyen
28 Bytel
29 Kennerley
30 E. Smith
31 Turner
32 Cameron
33 Kelly
34 Briggs
35 Hamill
36 Berry

Players that are on the fringe at the bottom end of the list. Still some very good prospects

Sturt, Quaynor, Stack, Khamis, Bowman, Sparrow, Koschitzke, Foot, Joyce, Foley, Jarvis, Andrews, Nietschke, Rowbottom, McKenzie, Grundy

 

[Beyond Blue]

Get. S.D.K

l don't believe this list without adding some pieces will win a flag.
We currently have a one dimensional mid field & lack quality mid/small forwards compared to Geelong & Brisbane we are well short in this area & quality tall support for Weitering, there are some gaps that need to be addressed.

I tend to agree with this and I actually don’t think we have neither the players nor the coaches to get to that level. The Brisbane v Geelong game showed us how far off we really are. Both teams knew what they wanted to do, used the ball really well and created great chances to score. They also had a variety of players who contributed. It was probably the best game I’ve seen all year.

 

[Bletch]

Talent ID is the toughest gig in footy, anyone that can come close to picking the best player at every pick would be a millionaire 40 times over

List Mgmt. - Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

How many list spots do we have available? Out: Byrne, Lamb, Graham, Kerridge, ASOS (rookie), Rowe, JGM (rookie), Wright. In: setterfield, mcgovern, fasolo, Newman Does that leave 2 list spots and 2 rookie spots? Don’t we need to draft 3 players minumum in national draft or van that be over...

www.bigfooty.com

Final rankings for output and impact at the next level

1 Lukosius
2 Blakey
3 B.Smith
4 B.King
5 Caldwell
6 Walsh
7 Rozee
8 Rankine
9 M. King
10 Jones
11 McHenry
12 West
13 Clark
14 Hately
15 Williams
16 Stocker
17 Thomas
18 O'Halloran
19 Valente
20 Butters
21 McLennan
22 Dawkins
23 Taylor
24 Hill
25 Scott
26 Duursma
27 McFadyen
28 Bytel
29 Kennerley
30 E. Smith
31 Turner
32 Cameron
33 Kelly
34 Briggs
35 Hamill
36 Berry

Players that are on the fringe at the bottom end of the list. Still some very good prospects

Sturt, Quaynor, Stack, Khamis, Bowman, Sparrow, Koschitzke, Foot, Joyce, Foley, Jarvis, Andrews, Nietschke, Rowbottom, McKenzie, Grundy

Absolutely.

Hindsight drafting is an interesting exercise, but that's all it is. No guarantee that those who have succeeded would have been as successful at a different club, nor that those that haven't done so well, could have had far better careers elsewhere.

Good call on Blakey, btw.

 

[Beyond Blue]

2018 hindsight draft 1st round (ymmv):

1 Walsh (1)
2 Butters (12)
3 Rozee (5)
4 Blakey (10)
5 Hill (24)
6 Smith (7)
7 Rowbottom (25)
8 J McInerney (44)
9 Briggs (34)
10 B King (6)
11 Rankine (3)
12 Quaynor (13)
13 M King (4)
14 Bedford (75)
15 J Clark (15)
16 Lukosius (2)
17 Answerth (55)
18 Idun (61)
19 Sparrow (27)
20 T Berry (36)
21 Caldwell (11)
22 West (26)
23 Jordon (33)

others:
Thomas (8)
C Jones (9)
Hately (14)
McHenry (16)
Sturt (17)
Duursma (18)
Stocker (19)
Collier-Dawkins (20)
Finbar O'Dwyer (66)
Ben Silvagni (70)

Good effort and I tend to agree with lot of this except that Caldwell is a much better footballer than Sparrow.

 

[Bletch]

Good effort and I tend to agree with lot of this except that Caldwell is a much better footballer than Sparrow.

Yeah, perhaps. But he suffers from the * tax.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Yet, when we had a decent list of fit players to choose from we flogged the Cats.

Our best is good enough, outside of Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

I don’t think we need to do too much except get a couple of nippy, creative ball users in the draft.

Then just another KPD type, would certainly take Trainor at 11 if he fell there which I doubt he will, SDK is an absolute pipedream and not going to happen.
Willing to keep using Young as second fiddle and train up JSOS over the summer, his best traits are much better suited to a backman
If we get more speed in the middle we can disrupt the oppo much better on their ball movement than this year which makes it easier to defend for the undersized like Kemp and McGovern


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[jooce8891]

Not imo. But can understand some might value him higher. Where would you have him?

i'd have him in front of McInerney and quaynor at a minimum briggs lineball, he's been very unlucky injury wise and if that went into your ranking fair enough, but if he gets pass all his injury problems i think he can be top 5.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Yet, when we had a decent list of fit players to choose from we flogged the Cats.

Our best is good enough, outside of Bailey Smith I don’t think we need to do too much except get a couple of nippy, creative ball users in the draft.

Then just another KPD type, would certainly take Trainor at 11 if he fell there which I doubt he will, SDK is an absolute pipedream and not going to happen.
Willing to keep using Young as second fiddle and train up JSOS over the summer, his best traits are much better suited to a backman
If we get more speed in the middle we can disrupt the oppo much better on their ball movement than this year which makes it easier to defend for the undersized like Kemp and McGovern


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

We flogged the Cats 3 months ago and not when the heat was on. A win is a win but in hindsight after beating the cats and soon to be spooner Richmond, I think we got way ahead ourselves players and coaches that is! Not to mentioned teams went to work on us and easily broke down our game plan.

We need a game plan that isn’t so bash and crash. Cannot do that style for 6 months imo and come out on top unless we have a bit more emphasis on the marking game, run and carry, slowing it down when need to and precision kicking from defence to midfield and midfield into the forward group. The dare to cut teams apart isn’t our strong suit and imo we need to do this much better in 2025 and onwards.

A key back sounds great but a key back from the draft doesn’t play in 2025 and a fair chance not in 2026. The thought of SDK also is a pipe dream but it detracts from our midfield and forward problems. We need a bit more youth injected imo but it needs to be midfield and forward. If the midfield and forward line are damaging it will restrict the ball going into opposition 50 at least 5 times a game and it means we have more opportunities to score. Even adding 2 goals a game by having a better midfield and forward line and reducing the opposition 2 goals a game by it not getting there as much and our midfield really helping out in defence, we will win much more games than we lose.

 

[Bletch]

i'd have him in front of McInerney and quaynor at a minimum briggs lineball, he's been very unlucky injury wise and if that went into your ranking fair enough, but if he gets pass all his injury problems i think he can be top 5.

Fair - he did have one very good year (2022). But has been poor since. By 'hindsight', I'm not looking at potential, but at what we've seen so far. And for me, that one good year isn't enough to have him higher. But no issues with your view.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

2018 hindsight draft 1st round (ymmv):

1 Walsh (1)
2 Butters (12)
3 Rozee (5)
4 Blakey (10)
5 Hill (24)
6 Smith (7)
7 Rowbottom (25)
8 J McInerney (44)
9 Briggs (34)
10 B King (6)
11 Rankine (3)
12 Quaynor (13)
13 M King (4)
14 Bedford (75)
15 J Clark (15)
16 Lukosius (2)
17 Answerth (55)
18 Idun (61)
19 Sparrow (27)
20 T Berry (36)
21 Caldwell (11)
22 West (26)
23 Jordon (33)

others:
Thomas (8)
C Jones (9)
Hately (14)
McHenry (16)
Sturt (17)
Duursma (18)
Stocker (19)
Collier-Dawkins (20)
Finbar O'Dwyer (66)
Ben Silvagni (70)

Blakey is the most damaging player from this draft atm, argument to say you can flip Walsh, Butters & Rozee around in any order depending on team needs or balance.

Rankine also top 6 for me, Quaynor 8th.

Idun a steal.

Has SOS’s fist pump turned to an uppercut yet….

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I'm probably just iterating what many of us have already posted, but I'd only be okay with getting Houston if it didn't compromise our 1st round pick this year.

Even splitting the pick to give us more draft capital is risky. Pommie suggested we could split pick 11 for say picks 20 and 21 - use pick 20 and a future 1st for Houston, leaving us with pick 21. Potentially, it could then leave us open to a bid on Ben before pick 21, so we're forced to burn that pick on matching the bid and left without a 1st rounder.

I'm much more comfortable in bringing in young talent, especially with the spectre of Tassie looming very soon. High draft picks are more valuable now than in a few years time with the compromised drafts.

Which is why I'd be more than happy to trade out Owies if we can use the pick for a 19yo Konstanty who's on the improve at state league level. And under no circumstances trade out pick 11, so we can bring in some high level talented kid like a Berry or Lyndsay, rather than a more speculative pick lower down the order like we've done in recent years.

I'm fine bringing in 'older' role players with 3rd and 4th round picks like Garcia or Rosas, or even through FA like Haynes or Taylor - but we have to keep bringing in youth - not negotiable.

My wishlist:

• Houston (only if the price is right)
• Konstanty (Owies trade pick)
• Garcia/Rosas (f3)
• Haynes (FA)
• Berry/Lyndsay (first round)
• Campo's (FS)
• McCartin (late pick)
• McMahon/White (rookie)
• Duffy (cat B)

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Agree with all of this bar “shopping” Pitto. It is too early. O’Keeffe May step up, but realistically needs another year. If we are shopping Young, we would be left with kids should TDK go down or need a rest or chop out. Another year hopefully has O’Keeffe and Lemmey ready for the top level if needed.

i should have said replace Pitto with a better, mature backup (to TDK).

Agreed HOK et al. aren't ready....

 

[carlton_99]

i should have said replace Pitto with a better, mature backup (to TDK).

Agreed HOK et al. aren't ready....

How many back-up rucks currently in the AFL are there who are clearly better than Pittonet and would cost the same or less?

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

I'd like to hear a rumour from a genuine ITK, that TDK and Weiters are agreeable to their future contract extensions before we consider adding Housten to our wealthy list.

It would have to be a given wouldn't it...I mean, even for us?

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

i should have said replace Pitto with a better, mature backup (to TDK).

Agreed HOK et al. aren't ready....

Like who? There aren't many better backup rucks than Pitto going around.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

How many back-up rucks currently in the AFL are there who are clearly better than Pittonet and would cost the same or less?

doesn't need to be playing in the AFL presently.

Tall, likes the contact/rough stuff, reasonably athletic/good runner and can take a grab.

 

[95blues]

When TDK is rucking, and rucking well, our midfield looks as quick as any....

Remember we got nothing from Cerra this year (2023 top 5 b & f and our 2nd best mid most of the year).

Ditto, Walshy - was a mile off his best in 2024.

Remember he was the best in the finals' series in '23 - of all clubs.

When he's fit, he's quick. As quick as Butters or Rozee.

That's a lot of serious output missing from the engine room? Two A graders essentially.

Young Lord looks very likely too. And offers Newcombe like burst too.

I think Pitto ain't up to being #1 ruck - if he can't dominate at CBBs, he's entirely useless around the ground.

Would be offering him around, for sure....

Walsh as quick as Butters or Rozee... wowzer. Not even on fast forward.

 

[Foucault1989]

Tasmanian and have followed a bit of cows career, we haven't seen anything of what the finished product at AFL level is going to be. This kid is going to be an absolute star, and he definitely has that mongrel. I thought we were no chance to get him but he's my favourite pickup in years. If we can keep him when Tassie come in we have a good one, a damn good one. Such a dedicated young kid too so good chance he stays.

I reckon he could become a future captain. He'll come out of his shell and I'd imagine set high standards for uncompromising, tough football. I agree wholeheartedly. My fave of our young players.

 

[Arr0w]

I'm probably just iterating what many of us have already posted, but I'd only be okay with getting Houston if it didn't compromise our 1st round pick this year.

Even splitting the pick to give us more draft capital is risky. Pommie suggested we could split pick 11 for say picks 20 and 21 - use pick 20 and a future 1st for Houston, leaving us with pick 21. Potentially, it could then leave us open to a bid on Ben before pick 21, so we're forced to burn that pick on matching the bid and left without a 1st rounder.

I'm much more comfortable in bringing in young talent, especially with the spectre of Tassie looming very soon. High draft picks are more valuable now than in a few years time with the compromised drafts.

Which is why I'd be more than happy to trade out Owies if we can use the pick for a 19yo Konstanty who's on the improve at state league level. And under no circumstances trade out pick 11, so we can bring in some high level talented kid like a Berry or Lyndsay, rather than a more speculative pick lower down the order like we've done in recent years.

I'm fine bringing in 'older' role players with 3rd and 4th round picks like Garcia or Rosas, or even through FA like Haynes or Taylor - but we have to keep bringing in youth - not negotiable.

My wishlist:

• Houston (only if the price is right)
• Konstanty (Owies trade pick)
• Garcia/Rosas (f3)
• Haynes (FA)
• Berry/Lyndsay (first round)
• Campo's (FS)
• McCartin (late pick)
• McMahon/White (rookie)
• Duffy (cat B)

Might not agree with each name, but extremely well thought out and balanced