Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[JJBagger]

Finishing 1st and going out in straight sets is not as good as finishing 5th and making a prelim. Finals are where it counts

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Not when it cooks your ability to play deep into finals, which it seems Sydney have done to themselves this season. They did try to arrest it though, and their ladder position almost suffered for it.

But the Swans have issues at both ends of the ground, and they're barely going to make a dent in that this off-season.

The Swans weren't cooked because of finishing first... they did what they did 2 years ago... they got stage fright...

They actually performed solidly in the two prior finals games.

 

[Jimmae]

The Swans weren't cooked because of finishing first... they did what they did 2 years ago... they got stage fright...

They actually performed solidly in the two prior finals games.

They had no ability to run hard all day, otherwise they would have just flipped the ball to the outside. Clearly the blockbuster run and the system ground down key personnel.

Their style needs tweaks because it's not sustainable.

 

[Arr0w]

Hence the reason to want to finish top 4...

(and yes, I'm aware no team has won from 4th... but mathematically, the chances are better than 5-8)

Actually, since the final 8 started, and mathematically the the chances are better finishing 5th to 8th, rather than 4th, but that's a completely different theory

We didn't drop out of the 8...

I know

How many of those teams won from outside top 4?

More than finishing 4th

Nobody cares about your predictions...

Noted

The club have made it clear what their expectations were and they haven't been met... in 2/3 years under Voss...

If you make decisions based on what people say rather than your own analysis, that's up to you

Would you want us finishing outside or inside top 4 next year?

Again, I will never judge success or failure based purely on finishing 4th versus 5th

Finishing 3rd has the same mathematical chance as 4th. Statistically, it is strange that no team has ever won it from 4th...

It's not that unusual actually, just consider who plays who first week

No trade produces a statistical fact regarding winning a flag... what a weird comment...

So, it's only opinion that we shouldn't trade or not trade a 1st rounder for a 28 year old

So the talk coming from the club wasn't actually possible?

Again, I don't base my opinion based on what others say or think

Nah, they were very realistic, it wasn't marketing speech at all... aiming for finals in 2022 was a realistic goal and certainly one the team was capable of achieving... ditto top 4 this year... when you make these goals public and don't reach them, then they deserve to be called out on these failures...

I'm sure clubs in our position come out and say, " nup, we won't play finals and if we do we will only scrape into 6th and lose 1st week of finals"

Like I said, nobody cares about your predictions... just like they don't care about mine...

I think predictions are worthwhile, especially the reasoning, but maybe that's just me

If you really want to dissect what is possible... then we could finish anywhere on the ladder, including last... despite how unlikely it is...

There is always a realistic range at any point in time

Yeah, and I'm sure you'll find a way to twist what you said in 2-3 years time too...

No, I'll just use facts, or in this case, people's previous opinion

Anyway, looking forward to next year

 

[jj1978]

Voss was hired with expectations were a finals list. He hit his pass 2022 missing finals. But still we keep seeing Jeckyl and Hyde in each of his 3 seasons with one good half and one poor half to each season.

We have a mature list, stars on every line. We get our game going and some reason something gets tweaked and persisted with that undoes us.

If Voss doesn’t make finals next year with an average injury list he surely can’t survive.

 

[Arr0w]

Voss was hired with expectations were a finals list. He hit his pass 2022 missing finals. But still we keep seeing Jeckyl and Hyde in each of his 3 seasons with one good half and one poor half to each season.

We have a mature list, stars on every line. We get our game going and some reason something gets tweaked and persisted with that undoes us.

If Voss doesn’t make finals next year with an average injury list he surely can’t survive.

If he misses finals, with similar injury list across the competition, yes, he would be in trouble

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Actually, since the final 8 started, and mathematically the the chances are better finishing 5th to 8th, rather than 4th, but that's a completely different theory

No, statistically, but not mathematically...

More than finishing 4th

The question was how many have won outside top 4... you don't want to answer it because you know there haven't been anywhere near as many as 1-3...

If you make decisions based on what people say rather than your own analysis, that's up to you

This is about the club failing to meet their own expectations...

Again, I will never judge success or failure based purely on finishing 4th versus 5th

Oh, is that what I'm doing? hahaha...

It's not that unusual actually, just consider who plays who first week

Not what I said...

So, it's only opinion that we shouldn't trade or not trade a 1st rounder for a 28 year old

Does this really need to be stated for you to comprehend?

Again, I don't base my opinion based on what others say or think

Answer the question instead of dodging or don't bother...

I'm sure clubs in our position come out and say, " nup, we won't play finals and if we do we will only scrape into 6th and lose 1st week of finals"

They don't need to specifically state anything... the fact is they did and they didn't achieve. The very definition of failing...

There was no talk about making finals in 2016 was there?

I think predictions are worthwhile, especially the reasoning, but maybe that's just me

What we predict is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the results the club delivers... and in order to achieve the results we set out, we need to put ourselves in the best position to do so... that means finishing top 4 (preferably top 2) on a consistent basis.

Basing our hopes of winning a flag from outside the top 4 because a couple of teams have done it in the past is futile. Our chances of reaching a prelim are worse from that position and therefore so are our chances of winning a flag...

There is always a realistic range at any point in time

Then we aren't dissecting what's possible... we're dissecting what's realistic... hence the reason the club stated finals in 2022 and top 4 in 2024...

No, I'll just use facts, or in this case, people's perivious opinion

Anyway, looking forward to next year

And twist things...

 

[Arr0w]

Now that the season is over, I think this off season will be huge.

Hopefully once our total ins and outs are assessed, it gives us a stronger position in the now as well as rejuvenates our list for the future

 

[BlueJet]

Jarrod of the Lions?

Somehow I think he’d be unlikely to leave.

Not going anywhere. (We should have drafted him instead of SPS)

 

[DangerousD]

Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards. If those guys aren’t helping us consistently win finals, then why not try move them on? Short term “pain” for long term gain would be the attitude

It’s not the moving them on that is a concern, its scenarios where we only replace the outgoing players with kids from the draft.

I think we can have a balanced trade and draft period where we bring in 2 kids befor the Campo twins and still target some mature players to replace the experience lost.

 

[bradfisher14]

Not going anywhere. (We should have drafted him instead of SPS)

Let's not go down this rabbit hole please. I'm trying to have a nice evening

 

[DangerousD]

$850k over 6 years apparently what he’s been offered

It’s decent, but how does it compare to what we will offer Houston?

 

[DangerousD]

Yep people keep referring to individual stats (goals specifically) when referring to players like Stringer but the reality is his traits like you have mentioned break down in terms of team structures, disciplines and most importantly rules/system !!

Maybe the same applies for Owies individual goal count, it just may not be a reflection of how he fits or improves our team structures or system…..

This is proper debate though, a good opinion expressed based on what you’ve seen and think we need, rather than the i hate him so i dont want him.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Ok - with the finals done, can we bring out some decent rumours

 

[BlueJet]

Just trying to keep things simple, if we lose Kennedy, Owies amd Carrol, unless the draftees who come in are better, then I think we go backwards.

Even if we get full years from the players you mention, I don’t think it changes anything.

A full tllt at the draft is fine as long as you or we replace the players we cut in the short term

I guess the point in that instance is talent v system.
You're trading out players that despite them having some ability, you're having to strategise around their shortcomings.
Kemp takes Owies spot as the third tall - perhaps he won't kick 30+ but he'll offer greater presence & positional flexibility.
Doc is a reasonable chance to take Kennedy's spot, fwd/mid - provided his body is alright, Doc is just the better footballer.

We cover these departures reasonably comfortably.

 

[DangerousD]

After today, it reinforces how long it can take to win a flag coming from the bottom of the ladder

I am happy that Fagan gets to be a premiership coach, has done a great job, they could and maybe should of had one or more already, shows in a tight comp, lots has to go right to win.

They have been top 4 for the last 4 or so years now and won the premiership from their worst ladder position, even if as you stated they bottomed out in 2013, they did a great job challenging properly when they did.

 

[TrueQldBlue]

Any bloody rumours ??

On CPH2135 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Arr0w]

I am happy that Fagan gets to be a premiership coach, has done a great job, they could and maybe should of had one or more already, shows in a tight comp, lots has to go right to win.

They have been top 4 for the last 4 or so years now and won the premiership from their worst ladder position, even if as you stated they bottomed out in 2013, they did a great job challenging properly when they did.

Lions have had a great finals run, apart from our game, they would have been underdogs every other game

Think Fagan got great buy in by his group, especially after after his chat regarding goal kicking accuracy

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Why no interest in Perryman?

Maybe as simple as he has no interest in us??

Shocking I know, but not everyone wants to play for Carlton.

 

[YeoShuey]

Maybe as simple as he has no interest in us??

Shocking I know, but not everyone wants to play for Carlton.

Does he have interest in those other teams though?

Perhaps he is just fielding interest and we haven’t been proactive? If so, should bring him in, put him in a Carlton guernsey and convince him that this is just right and the way to go.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Multi quote response is elite, much like the multi ball reward in Adam’s family pinball machine, hearing Gomez yelling multi ball was a highlight of a misspent youth.

Look everybody, we have guests….

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Ridiculous to expect 2 clubs to follow the same path...

But like I've said, we're far enough into our rebuild to expect top 4 finishes from this group.

Next year will be massive...

I don't think this group is good enough for top 4 finishes. What constitutes our current best 22 isnt good enough to win a flag IMO. Moving on the injured trio and maybe Owies, Carroll Kennedy etc, and adding Haynes doesnt move the needle one iota for us IMO.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Voss was hired with expectations were a finals list. He hit his pass 2022 missing finals. But still we keep seeing Jeckyl and Hyde in each of his 3 seasons with one good half and one poor half to each season.

We have a mature list, stars on every line. We get our game going and some reason something gets tweaked and persisted with that undoes us.

If Voss doesn’t make finals next year with an average injury list he surely can’t survive.

Or maybe the issue is the list, not the coach?

 

[I bleed Blue]

Voss was hired with expectations were a finals list. He hit his pass 2022 missing finals. But still we keep seeing Jeckyl and Hyde in each of his 3 seasons with one good half and one poor half to each season.

We have a mature list, stars on every line. We get our game going and some reason something gets tweaked and persisted with that undoes us.

If Voss doesn’t make finals next year with an average injury list he surely can’t survive.

If we have a patch of games next year where we only win 2 out of 10 games, it will be completely unacceptable.

We need consistency if we are serious about finishing top 4 and contending.

The squad and coaching staff have been together long enough to understand the game plan and gel.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Or maybe the issue is the list, not the coach?

A list that was sitting 2nd until round 20 and made it to a prelim last year?