Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[CCurnow3votes]

It is & every team can play a great game.
Stepping up when it’s necessary is what makes a good team.
We can play very well, doesn’t mean we are good.
St Kilda beat us, Sydney & Geelong - that doesn’t make them top 4 - but they did beat 2/4 prelim teams.

We see what we want to see.

Look at it unemotionally - facts are we were 2nd in the H&A ladder for some time at one point 2 games clear.

Are we going to ignore how/why we got there?

Was it because we had an easy draw? Hardly…

Speaking to the Geelong game shows our high bar - it was also our tipping point when injuries took hold of us.

I’m not saying everything is perfect.

But it’s ridiculous to look at the last couple of months and say “ that’s what we are” & ignore the previous 4 months.

I ask you two Qs;

1. Were we good enough to be 2nd on the ladder at R20?
2. What was the reason for the dramatic drop off?

 

[HarryFlashman]

We see what we want to see.

Look at it unemotionally - facts are we were 2nd in the H&A ladder for some time at one point 2 games clear.

Are we going to ignore how/why we got there?

Was it because we had an easy draw? Hardly…

Speaking to the Geelong game shows our high bar - it was also our tipping point when injuries took hold of us.

I’m not saying everything is perfect.

But it’s ridiculous to look at the last couple of months and say “ that’s what we are” & ignore the previous 4 months.

I ask you two Qs;

1. Were we good enough to be 2nd on the ladder at R20?
2. What was the reason for the dramatic drop off?

1. No, if we were we would have stayed there
2. Game style, tactics & personnel. How we fell apart after Q1 against GWS I have NFI - but I don’t think anyone fully understands it.
I do know our midfield structure & style has been an issue for a long time, we move the ball poorly (combination of style/structure & player performance) & our small forwards are too.

 

[Arr0w]

I think Houston makes us better, but if we miss out, I'm not concerned, we just have more currency to bring in talent at any level

Interesting off season no matter how it plays out, but like always, team growth comes from within

 

[CCurnow3votes]

1. No, if we were we would have stayed there
2. Game style, tactics & personnel. How we fell apart after Q1 against GWS I have NFI - but I don’t think anyone fully understands it.
I do know our midfield structure & style has been an issue for a long time, we move the ball poorly (combination of style/structure & player performance) & our small forwards are too.

The facts are;

We were good enough to be 2nd on the ladder, because it happened, despite having a very tough draw.

Something did change that caused us to drop away - clearly availability of personnel was the biggest change.

We do need internal/external improvement in our list.

We do need to keep developing our game plan.

IMHO - believing we are hopeless is as damaging as believing we are ready.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

I think Houston makes us better, but if we miss out, I'm not concerned, we just have more currency to bring in talent at any level

Interesting off season no matter how it plays out, but like always, team growth comes from within

It’s looking unlikely we can get him without giving something valuable away.

Do we invest in the now at the cost of our future?

Austin & Co about to play their GF.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

clearly availability of personnel was the biggest change

Bringing back "names" at the expense of role players doing a good job has been a common issue. It played a factor in finals last year and again from the GWS game this year and culminated in the EF. It's easy to say in hindsight because some guys come in and do well. Will be interesting if change of High Performance Manager impacts in this space.

 

[Arr0w]

It’s looking unlikely we can get him without giving something valuable away.

Do we invest in the now at the cost of our future?

Austin & Co about to play their GF.

That something of value is likely a F1 as the main component

Getting Houston wouldn't jeopardise our future, you can find young talent at every level and still have a balanced age demographic

We are in win mode, not rebuild mode

 

[Earls Smother]

We see what we want to see.

Look at it unemotionally - facts are we were 2nd in the H&A ladder for some time at one point 2 games clear.

Are we going to ignore how/why we got there?

Was it because we had an easy draw? Hardly…

Speaking to the Geelong game shows our high bar - it was also our tipping point when injuries took hold of us.

I’m not saying everything is perfect.

But it’s ridiculous to look at the last couple of months and say “ that’s what we are” & ignore the previous 4 months.

I ask you two Qs;

1. Were we good enough to be 2nd on the ladder at R20?
2. What was the reason for the dramatic drop off?

1. Yes

2. Marchbank, Cuningham, Martin and S. Durdin hardly played. Add that to Doc and JSOS and we were 6 players down most of the year.

That's not just 6 of our best 40, but probably 6 of our best 28 (Nigel debatable). That's over 20% and hurt our depth considerably. We covered it early, but then the niggles started. We lost Fog, Cotts and TDK, so we were now down 9 of our best 28.

After that, we were playing too many that were NQR fitness-wise. We had to rely on players who ideally we didn't want to. Young, Kennedy and Owies are all looking elsewhere for a reason. TDK has gone well past Pitto, but we forced into the backup option.

We brought blokes back too early because we lacked numbers. We fiddled a bit with the mix (Hewett, Kennedy) looking for more speed in the middle, which I think was understandable, but probably unsettled things further at the wrong time. The next up were the younger guys, who we seemed reluctant to expose - in hindsight this was a mistake.

The head of fitness has been moved on. The strategy of "pushing them until you lose a few" was not one that was suited to our list, particularly this year.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

I think Houston makes us better, but if we miss out, I'm not concerned, we just have more currency to bring in talent at any level

Interesting off season no matter how it plays out, but like always, team growth comes from within

Some individuals from which some of that internal growth will hopefully emanate in 2025:

Moir: Really hope he makes a giant leap over pre-season fitness-wise, and is available to play Round 1. Changes our mix significantly.

Boyd: Needs to be embraced as the designated receiver/kicker exiting D50. Play through him and the rewards will come, have to get him the ball more. I also think we just need to back him in generally, hit a rough patch of form last year but the talent is there.

Lord: Just looks a really good player, I think he will improve our midfield mix overall.

Kemp: Looked lively up forward and appeared to have very much bought in to the defensive requirements of a modern forward (Charlie Curnow I'm looking in your direction). Not certain he gets a game forward if we go with Moir, but I think he can have a good year as a tall option.

Cowan: Tracking very nicely but might take another leap into one of our better players next year.

Side note: people will scoff at this but I would think long and hard about one of Curnow or McKay going back, the whole 'twin towers' thing is way over-hyped for mine and I think it hurts us with how focused we are on getting the ball to them (defenders know exactly where to position themselves every time). Both guys would be guns behind the ball I feel, Curnow's kicking would be a huge weapon and I also think it would just be good for his development overall: playing in defence can be humbling at times and that might be a good thing for Charlie and truly complete him as a player.

The main worry for mine is the small forward brigade, really hard to find much there that improves us. I know Motlop's year was a complete write-off due to injury but I feel people are just assuming he'll be good next year when I'm not sure he has the body of work to back that up... Has good goal sense but overall seems slow and somewhat unsuited to modern football, to my eye.

Also hoping Young can have a good year after showing signs of life late on.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

The head of fitness has been moved on. The strategy of "pushing them until you lose a few" was not one that was suited to our list, particularly this year.

I'm curious about the dynamic of guys returning from injury. Did HP clear them when they were not ready, or did HP say bring back via VFL and match committee said it they are cleared they can play seniors? Or were they on the same page?

 

[Arr0w]

Some individuals from which some of that internal growth will hopefully emanate in 2025:

Moir: Really hope he makes a giant leap over pre-season fitness-wise, and is available to play Round 1. Changes our mix significantly.

Boyd: Needs to be embraced as the designated receiver/kicker exiting D50. Play through him and the rewards will come, have to get him the ball more. I also think we just need to back him in generally, hit a rough patch of form last year but the talent is there.

Lord: Just looks a really good player, I think he will improve our midfield mix overall.

Kemp: Looked lively up forward and appeared to have very much bought in to the defensive requirements of a modern forward (Charlie Curnow I'm looking in your direction). Not certain he gets a game forward if we go with Moir, but I think he can have a good year as a tall option.

Cowan: Tracking very nicely but might take another leap into one of our better players next year.

Side note: people will scoff at this but I would think long and hard about one of Curnow or McKay going back, the whole 'twin towers' thing is way over-hyped for mine and I think it hurts us with how focused we are on getting the ball to them (defenders know exactly where to position themselves every time). Both guys would be guns behind the ball I feel, Curnow's kicking would be a huge weapon and I also think it would just be good for his development overall: playing in defence can be humbling at times and that might be a good thing for Charlie and truly complete him as a player.

The main worry for mine is the small forward brigade, really hard to find much there that improves us. I know Motlop's year was a complete write-off due to injury but I feel people are just assuming he'll be good next year when I'm not sure he has the body of work to back that up... Has good goal sense but overall seems slow and somewhat unsuited to modern football, to my eye.

Also hoping Young can have a good year after showing signs of life late on.

Pretty balanced

Of the 2, Charlie would be a better option behind the ball, but I think there are better ways to cover that 2nd KPD role

I'd like to see Charlie playing higher at times, more that Cameron role

We have some good young types, Cowan, Moir, Ollie, Elijah, Lord and even Cincotta that I believe will improve

Binns and Wilson will be interesting to see what steps they take

I'd still like to see Boyd play that HHF role

Not much has changed for me, needs wise. Someone to hold down that 2nd KPD role, more speed/xfactor on the edges and forward

Loved Lohmann a couple of years ago, but more than happy to add some Zac Bailey types. Even Wicks would be an upgrade to our list

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Trading in Houston would no doubt marginally improve us, it all comes down to how much currency we should sensibly direct at another half back with maybe 3 good years in him compared to more gaping holes existing in other positions.(KPD, fast mid, quality smaller FWD?)

It's irrelevant whether we use next years 1st on him, as again there'll be a very good player available for trade again next year, probably one of more need.

 

[yibbida]

Side note: people will scoff at this but I would think long and hard about one of Curnow or McKay going back, the whole 'twin towers' thing is way over-hyped for mine and I think it hurts us with how focused we are on getting the ball to them (defenders know exactly where to position themselves every time). Both guys would be guns behind the ball I feel, Curnow's kicking would be a huge weapon and I also think it would just be good for his development overall: playing in defence can be humbling at times and that might be a good thing for Charlie and truly complete him as a player.

So we need twin tower defenders but not twin tower forwards? Why? To combat a team with twin tower forwards perhaps?

 

[swuzzlebubble]

So we need twin tower defenders but not twin tower forwards? Why? To combat a team with twin tower forwards perhaps?

One to lock down and the other to be more an interceptor

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

We need an injection of speed, agility, skill and more skill all over the ground. Next few trade periods are crucial, so let hope we have some luck. Lions have extremely lucky with father and son concessions 4 1st rounders a champion midfield over 2 seasons. They’ll be a super team for the next 5 years as their talent matures together.

team selection every week (picking blokes who are fit and match hardened) and general game style way more relevant to our success than modest changes to the list....

 

[DangerousD]

Is one flag then returning to mediocrity preferable to ten years of finals, but struggling to get the job done?

You could use this to describe Geelong, Sydney and Brisbane but gee they give themselves a real chance each year

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I think Kemp/McGovern/Weitering is the perfect combo, however, it’s a combination that that needs pressure supplied further upfield.
Pace and chasing/tackling intent is what I want to see whomever we bring in via trade or drafts

Rosas/Berry and Hanaford fits the mould. I want the MC to get little Durds playing midfield, don’t care if he spends 1/2 the season playing magoos we need to develop him as a mid and build his fitness base to be playing there full time in the twos.

I want Carroll to use Rowbottom as an example of how he should be playing, defensive intent first and foremost then attack

And, I never want to see Kennedy, Cripps and Hewett in the same team ever again. Cripps is a given in.


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[DangerousD]

Even if we target Houston or another mature player and use high leverage picks or multiple picks, we aren’t sacrificing the future.

As long as we continue to add youth via the draft or trade periods, we will planning for the future.

We just got Moir for 28, Lord in the MSD, Hollands for stuff all and Wilson, all are young and developing.

We will still add the Campo twins, another draftee before they are bid in and new rookies.

There is still plenty of picking for the future

 

[Red Bull]

Far out, thought there’d be a proper rumour or two from all the corporate events yesterday…lift ffs, this thread is more boring than the Grand Final


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[Soapy V]

Had a great day yesterday. Supporters breakfast, GF and then to pub with family and friends

Game summed up my year in tipping. I picked Swans easily and Heeney for NSM

The evening of the competition means anyone can win these days if they are fit and get on a roll. I don’t buy this rebuild or takes time stuff.

Lots of talk around Houston. Many ITK believe he would like to come to us but it’s the deal that will be the issue. North coming hard.

Austin has many targets and wants some early draft picks. So many scenarios were discussed. Cook has worked with Austin for more than 12 months on changing our list structure and recruiting plan. Bottom line is no one really knows what will happen as one deal could really affect another and it’s obvious we have so many balls in the air. We haven’t even discussed possible deal with Port for Houston. Everything is just speculation

With Tassie coming on we see this as last possibility for a while to get in top line young talent through draft

Kennedy & Owies likely to go now. Both have interest and have had medicals. Carroll probably done late as both clubs have other focuses. I’m not sure WCE are that keen? Young not attracting interest even though we will give him away

So many names and targets mentioned. We are definitely active. It just depends what we can get done. A number at club are excited by Campo twins. Think we will get two very good players cheaply.

Some players already training. Ops have happened for a few. Massive review of coaching still going. Stewart Dew was mentioned as possible target as Senior Asst

For all the discussion nothing has really changed from what I have been told for months. 1-2 early draft picks supported by some Elijah/Acres type deals and some smart mature/dfa picks

I know people would like more but this is the reality as I’m told

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Thank fk for Soapy

I actually like what you’ve posted, give me Hanaford/Berry in the draft, give me Rosas as a trade and please try and keep a hold of Carroll

Kennedy moving on makes sense, we can’t continue to play all the brutes and he’s better than VFL level, let’s cash in and use the compensation to find what we actually need.


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[JuddgementDay]

Even if we target Houston or another mature player and use high leverage picks or multiple picks, we aren’t sacrificing the future.

As long as we continue to add youth via the draft or trade periods, we will planning for the future.

We just got Moir for 28, Lord in the MSD, Hollands for stuff all and Wilson, all are young and developing.

We will still add the Campo twins, another draftee before they are bid in and new rookies.

There is still plenty of picking for the future

And Duffy - I think he can develop quicker than expected

 

[GoBlues!]

Had a great day yesterday. Supporters breakfast, GF and then to pub with family and friends

Game summed up my year in tipping. I picked Swans easily and Heeney for NSM

The evening of the competition means anyone can win these days if they are fit and get on a roll. I don’t buy this rebuild or takes time stuff.

Lots of talk around Houston. Many ITK believe he would like to come to us but it’s the deal that will be the issue. North coming hard.

Austin has many targets and wants some early draft picks. So many scenarios were discussed. Cook has worked with Austin for more than 12 months on changing our list structure and recruiting plan. Bottom line is no one really knows what will happen as one deal could really affect another and it’s obvious we have so many balls in the air. We haven’t even discussed possible deal with Port for Houston. Everything is just speculation

With Tassie coming on we see this as last possibility for a while to get in top line young talent through draft

Kennedy & Owies likely to go now. Both have interest and have had medicals. Carroll probably done late as both clubs have other focuses. I’m not sure WCE are that keen? Young not attracting interest even though we will give him away

So many names and targets mentioned. We are definitely active. It just depends what we can get done. A number at club are excited by Campo twins. Think we will get two very good players cheaply.

Some players already training. Ops have happened for a few. Massive review of coaching still going. Stewart Dew was mentioned as possible target as Senior Asst

For all the discussion nothing has really changed from what I have been told for months. 1-2 early draft picks supported by some Elijah/Acres type deals and some smart mature/dfa picks

I know people would like more but this is the reality as I’m told

Fair bit covered Soapy.

Good to hear that a review of coaching is still going on and is not being glossed over. Stewart Dew as a possible target as Senior Asst would be great acquisition to the coaching team.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Fair bit covered Soapy.

Good to hear that a review of coaching is still going on and is not being glossed over. Stewart Dew as a possible target as Senior Asst would be great acquisition to the coaching team.

He's been at Lions since finishing at Suns?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

If we had been less shit at stages in this rebuild we could've played Sydney twice in grand finals and had 2 wins. ****ing useless mob they are.