Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Must be a fullmoon

Or the AFL offseason just before trade week. You might want to avoid this thread for a couple of weeks.

 

[Wickzki]

Someone mentioned earlier that Richmond and Hawthorn didn't take early picks before their run of premierships but look at the Lions, they continuously added young, energetic players who have keep the team from being stagnant over the last few years. Jaspa Fletcher, Darcy Wilmot, Kai Lohman, and Will Ashcroft have all been taken with early picks recently. Logan Morris was last year. I know they've had a leg up with academy/father son but so will we in the next couple of drafts.

Spot on.

The clubs that have achieved sustainable runs over the years always had young talent coming through while their stars were at their peak.

Let's look at the teams that our very own Brian Cook helped oversee in Geelong.

Listed Elder statesmen (28+):

2008: Milburn, Harley, King (Scarlett, Mooney, Ottens were all 27)
2011: Milburn, Scarlett, Mooney, Ottens, Wojcinski, Ling
2922: Higgins, Selwood, Hawkins, Smith, Tuohy, Dangerfield, Stanley, Ceglar, Blicavs, Rohan, Duncan, Menegola, Guthrie, Dahlhaus, Stewart, Cameron, Bews


Listed Young players at the start of their prime (23 or younger) (didn't necessarily play)

2008: Stevie J, Bartel, Kelly, Byrnes, Ablett, Mackie, Stokes, Nablett, Varcoe, Selwood, Hawkins
2011: Guthrie, Hawkins, Selwood, Varcoe, Menzel, Hunt, Motlop, Duncan
2022: Parfitt, ZGuthrie, Ratugolea, Close, Henry, Stengle, Miers, De Koning, Neale, Holmes


The theme here is continuous improvement. Geelong always had a number of young guns to match the older players on the list.

People say they were a straight up old team in 2022 which is true but even then they had double digit players under the age of 23 who were capable footballers.

Obviously some of those players move on (Parfitt, Ratugolea, etc.) and not everyone makes it as far as what you hope but the fact is that at various stages all of those players were called upon to contribute to Geelong's team.

Not putting all of our eggs in a 2-3 year window but Continuous improvement.

This is the mindset Brian Cook has at Carlton and every decision he has made and his team under him have made is designed to accomplish this both on and off field.

 

[katmanblue]

You're ignoring the whole point of striving for a top 4 finish at the end of H&A...

Which is to do well in finals. Does it matter if we skipped a step? Where'd Bulldogs finish in 2016?

The whole point of top 4 is to increase likelihood of going deep into finals. It is not a requirement.

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[Wickzki]

There is so much wrong with this, that I just can't let it go into the Bluemour No Discussion thread as it stands.

McKay said he isn't going anywhere. His manager said he isn't going anywhere. The club said he isn't going anywhere. Warner is in contract and Sydney won't let him go unless they can get a vital piece in return.

Who is the source on it? It sounds like a facebook page rumour.

I think it's a fantasy land take on what Jon Ralph posted earlier.




Warner is NOT coming to Carlton.

 

[katmanblue]

If the Suns do that the AFL should take that club behind the barn and shoot it.

More likely to give it a few extra picks.

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[katmanblue]

The Swaniwobbles

Sydney Swobbles

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[Wickzki]

If the Suns do that the AFL should take that club behind the barn and shoot it.

The Suns have so many picks that they don't value picks at anywhere close to the same value as other clubs.

It really wouldn't surprise me if they consistently paid massive overs on trades involving outgoing picks.

The Old Dark Navy's has it bang on in the Trade Discussion thread.

 

[WalshYouLegend]

No way are we giving up McKay. Not for Warner. Not for anyone.

The only way I would let McKay be in the OUT column of a trade is if he was coming back to us in the IN column flanked with some draft picks and A grade players.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

You’re off to movie world?

 

[myblueroan]

It's interesting how the ITK big guns came in to announce the most underwhelming scenario imaginable.
I like my pre-draft drink a lot spicier than that.
So I'm gunna say it's far more likely they don't want anything interesting getting out in the media.
That makes me think of Paps and Trac, maybe Houston..
Delicate negotiations. Fun stuff like that.

I also refer to Crippto's Bombshell.
Pretty sure it aint about Haynes or Membrey like the corners of my mind...

EP came in not long after that and E.B. liked it.

Not saying I won't be happy with the basics if that's all we get, but for now, I'm gunna play 'what ifs'. Much more fun!

 

[BlueTongue]

Spot on.

The clubs that have achieved sustainable runs over the years always had young talent coming through while their stars were at their peak.

Let's look at the teams that our very own Brian Cook helped oversee in Geelong.

Listed Elder statesmen (28+):

2008: Milburn, Harley, King (Scarlett, Mooney, Ottens were all 27)
2011: Milburn, Scarlett, Mooney, Ottens, Wojcinski, Ling
2922: Higgins, Selwood, Hawkins, Smith, Tuohy, Dangerfield, Stanley, Ceglar, Blicavs, Rohan, Duncan, Menegola, Guthrie, Dahlhaus, Stewart, Cameron, Bews


Listed Young players at the start of their prime (23 or younger) (didn't necessarily play)

2008: Stevie J, Bartel, Kelly, Byrnes, Ablett, Mackie, Stokes, Nablett, Varcoe, Selwood, Hawkins
2011: Guthrie, Hawkins, Selwood, Varcoe, Menzel, Hunt, Motlop, Duncan
2022: Parfitt, ZGuthrie, Ratugolea, Close, Henry, Stengle, Miers, De Koning, Neale, Holmes


The theme here is continuous improvement. Geelong always had a number of young guns to match the older players on the list.

People say they were a straight up old team in 2022 which is true but even then they had double digit players under the age of 23 who were capable footballers.

Obviously some of those players move on (Parfitt, Ratugolea, etc.) and not everyone makes it as far as what you hope but the fact is that at various stages all of those players were called upon to contribute to Geelong's team.

Not putting all of our eggs in a 2-3 year window but Continuous improvement.

This is the mindset Brian Cook has at Carlton and every decision he has made and his team under him have made is designed to accomplish this both on and off field.

I agree with this system, and as I’ve ranted about several times, Geelong is the model to follow, BUT, but I don’t think our ‘Window’ is the right time to start drafting young players developing. Now is the time for hard, seasoned bodies.

Succeed or fail, once our window shuts, I’m all for this.

 

[CeeDee88]

I still want to know who Soapy V was referring too

 

[myblueroan]

I still want to know who Soapy V was referring too

Not a game changer so meh.

 

[Wickzki]

I agree with this system, and as I’ve ranted about several times, Geelong is the model to follow, BUT, but I don’t think our ‘Window’ is the right time to start drafting young players developing. Now is the time for hard, seasoned bodies.

Succeed or fail, once our window shuts, I’m all for this.

You can accomplish both simultaneously. Make the hard calls. Trade out those who are excess to your nucleus to fill the holes you need while simultaneously drafting.

It requires smart, savvy, list management but is certainly accomplishable.

Where Geelong have been most successful in this aspect (father/son aside) is finding the hidden gems. We need to start nailing the middle and latter picks of the ND and rookie draft.

 

[Arr0w]

It's interesting how the ITK big guns came in to announce the most underwhelming scenario imaginable.
I like my pre-draft drink a lot spicier than that.
So I'm gunna say it's far more likely they don't want anything interesting getting out in the media.
That makes me think of Paps and Trac, maybe Houston..
Delicate negotiations. Fun stuff like that.

I also refer to Crippto's Bombshell.
Pretty sure it aint about Haynes or Membrey like the corners of my mind...

EP came in not long after that and E.B. liked it.

Not saying I won't be happy with the basics if that's all we get, but for now, I'm gunna play 'what ifs'. Much more fun!

Hold on tight to that saddle horsey, trade week hasn't started yet

 

[HarryFlashman]

I agree with this system, and as I’ve ranted about several times, Geelong is the model to follow, BUT, but I don’t think our ‘Window’ is the right time to start drafting young players developing. Now is the time for hard, seasoned bodies.

Succeed or fail, once our window shuts, I’m all for this.

I think there’s a couple windows.
1. Being prime age group starting to age out
2. Style & System - being a 2-3 years into an effective game plan eg Lions defensive trap & ball movement.

I think we are window 1 but need to sort window 2. Bringing in youth & energy can definitely build 2.
Helps break the habits formed & requires focus/attention to get younger players up to speed.
That also helps the experienced players reset & get back to doing the “little things” right.

 

[myblueroan]

Hold on tight to that saddle horsey, trade week hasn't started yet

 

[ESKIE]

I think it's a fantasy land take on what Jon Ralph posted earlier.




Warner is NOT coming to Carlton.

Ralph is such a lazy journalist, I could do better

 

[HarryFlashman]

Soapy gets quality info but as he explained was asked to keep it under his hat.

Given that he stated it wasn’t a game changer, it’s just as likely not going to happen as it’s not a key piece and dependent on other things also happening.

Some people get cryptic for the likes & attention, others are just respectful of there relationships & good enough to share with us what they can.

 

[GoBlues!]

I also refer to Crippto's Bombshell.
Pretty sure it aint about Haynes or Membrey like the corners of my mind...

That’s champagne comedy roany…

 

[Benaly28]

Don’t you love the trade period.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Crippa#9]

Spot on.

The clubs that have achieved sustainable runs over the years always had young talent coming through while their stars were at their peak.

Let's look at the teams that our very own Brian Cook helped oversee in Geelong.

Listed Elder statesmen (28+):

2008: Milburn, Harley, King (Scarlett, Mooney, Ottens were all 27)
2011: Milburn, Scarlett, Mooney, Ottens, Wojcinski, Ling
2922: Higgins, Selwood, Hawkins, Smith, Tuohy, Dangerfield, Stanley, Ceglar, Blicavs, Rohan, Duncan, Menegola, Guthrie, Dahlhaus, Stewart, Cameron, Bews


Listed Young players at the start of their prime (23 or younger) (didn't necessarily play)

2008: Stevie J, Bartel, Kelly, Byrnes, Ablett, Mackie, Stokes, Nablett, Varcoe, Selwood, Hawkins
2011: Guthrie, Hawkins, Selwood, Varcoe, Menzel, Hunt, Motlop, Duncan
2022: Parfitt, ZGuthrie, Ratugolea, Close, Henry, Stengle, Miers, De Koning, Neale, Holmes


The theme here is continuous improvement. Geelong always had a number of young guns to match the older players on the list.

People say they were a straight up old team in 2022 which is true but even then they had double digit players under the age of 23 who were capable footballers.

Obviously some of those players move on (Parfitt, Ratugolea, etc.) and not everyone makes it as far as what you hope but the fact is that at various stages all of those players were called upon to contribute to Geelong's team.

Not putting all of our eggs in a 2-3 year window but Continuous improvement.

This is the mindset Brian Cook has at Carlton and every decision he has made and his team under him have made is designed to accomplish this both on and off field.

All fair points but reality is our core, gun players have moved into the last third of their careers. Our 20-25yo’s are nice players but I wouldn’t rank them in the top 8 of the rest of the league.

When does the ‘continuous improvement’ strategy move into ‘time to maximise’ strategy?

The 20 year ‘continuous improvement’ model has got us only to a Prelim loss and the journey to #17 doesn’t look as close to me as it does others.

Entering 2024 we were on the right course but as it turned out we spluttered and other clubs have jumped us. Hawthorn, Dogs, Sydney, GWS…

As I have said, I’m not totally opposed to draft picks. However in our current position where we’re within sight of being a Top 4 contender I think it’s Go time.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Which is to do well in finals. Does it matter if we skipped a step? Where'd Bulldogs finish in 2016?

Mate, if we win a flag, I don't care if we finished 8th in H&A

The whole point of top 4 is to increase likelihood of going deep into finals. It is not a requirement.

Exactly, which is the point I'm trying to make...

 

[Just Kreuzing]

RB is around to often for it to be a school holiday hobby, but KC has popped up, thinking they're a father son combo, with a few alts to engagement farm themselves.

There are plenty of others….
Not sure if they are students or nerdy teachers with too much time to spare….

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Ralph is such a lazy journalist, I could do better

Probably gets his info from here….