Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVI - 'Loopy' Season in full swing

[DangerousD]

I think the club realised early on that to get 13 we needed to overpay, then add to that, to get Houston we again need to overpay. Cancelling out this and next years draft points would be crazy. It’s why we would be only offering Port a fair trade (in our eyes).

We desperately need the draft not only for some more injection of youth but also to help smooth the salary cap.

If we only hit the draft this year, I fully expect us to grab a high priced FA next year

At the end of 2022 the same stuff was rolled out, we need to go to the draft to smooth out the cap and we will target players next year, 2023 comes around and we trade out two players, bring in Hollands and the cheap and go to the draft in the late 20’s, the same lines were rolled out, we need to hit the draft and we will target players next year and now its 2024 and we are rolling out the same lines.


We are desperate for a second key defender, last year one went as a free agent, this year Barass will go to the Hawks and Battle went to the Hawks, we weren’t linked to any, the only reason why a club desperate for another key defender wasn’t in the discussion is because we have no $$$$.

Maybe next year will be the year we have the $$$ to go after a player of need but people already are talking about the big $$$ needed to re-sign Weits and TDK.

With all theses gun players on big $$$$$ and the need to re-sign two more players on long term big $$$$ deals, why dont we have anything to show for it? It’s not like these players are young and then why are clubs who have been continually better than in the past, have $$$$ to target players in areas of need to strengthen their teams?

 

[goreds]

One thought occurred to me ... Why are Port and Melbourne desperate to get a pick/another pick in the first round of this draft? Maybe they rate it as Austin does?

I guess it is Austin's job on the line. I always maintain that list managers and coaches have to be able to live or die by their own decisions. It's their livelihood.

Drafting players helps the bottom line. It's a lot cheaper to draft players...

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

One swallow does not a summer make...

That misses the point.

I didn't suggest we're capable of playing at that level consistently. Clearly we're not, at least when factoring in all the injuries.

Just, we're not that far off....

 

[DangerousD]

We can't score when we aren't winning clearance but we were the number 1 team for scores from turnover and number 1 team for defending scores from turnover up until round 19...

Maybe you need to dial down the pessimism

We were really good at scoring, its something we improved a lot from our 2023 season, the big problem is we went from the 5th best defence (maybe 4th) in 2023 to the 12th in 2024.

WE were the 18th ranked team from conceding goals from D50 stoppages, 10 goals worse than 17th, we were down the bottom all year.

It’s hard to rationalise how we were so bad for so long and we failed to address it mid season.

The footy shows on a few occasions showed Saad to be one of our worse culprits in this area which was a big surprise.

The positive out of this is, if we could defend as a group in 2023 and failed in 24 with the same group, we can get back to that in 25, its purely a coaching issue imo.

 

[CoachB]

Drafting players helps the bottom line. It's a lot cheaper to draft players...

I thought we were in the Premiership business. Not financial planning.

 

[CoachB]

That misses the point.

I didn't suggest we're capable of playing at that level consistently. Clearly we're not, at least when factoring in all the injuries.

Just, we're not that far off....

60 to nil in an elimination final after relying on another team getting beaten to qualify suggests otherwise

And BTW does Richmond beating Sydney suggest the Tigers are close to a GF?

 

[DangerousD]

Lewis Young was supposed to be that replacement. Had a really good 2022 and a not so good 2023. Looked okay when he played this year. I honestly don't think the gap between Young and BZT/Ratugolea is that big

If Young barely gets picked for us and has been told to look elsewhere and BZT and Ratugolea are picked every week for a side that played in the prelim, doesnt that suggest that the gap is pretty big?

 

[ferrisb]

Durdin is a midfielder played out of position because of the dearth of forward options.

Durdin is a midfielder played out of position because of his dearth of height options.













In other news....Geez! Look how black that kettle is!!!

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Watching Austin speak does my head in. "Let's see what happens, we'll go to the draft." mantra is crap

You don't think that's just cliche talk for the media?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

One thought occurred to me ... Why are Port and Melbourne desperate to get a pick/another pick in the first round of this draft? Maybe they rate it as Austin does?

I guess it is Austin's job on the line. I always maintain that list managers and coaches have to be able to live or die by their own decisions. It's their livelihood.

I think it's also due to only having 1 top 15 pick in his entire time at the club... Tassie coming in soon...

We will fall off a cliff because a very large portion of our best 22 will be in their 30's+ all at the same time in just a few more years unless we start bringing in some highly rated kids now.

 

[CoachB]

You don't think that's just cliche talk for the media?

I would like to think so, but Hawthorn already have 2 key defenders in the bag.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

If Young barely gets picked for us and has been told to look elsewhere and BZT and Ratugolea are picked every week for a side that played in the prelim, doesnt that suggest that the gap is pretty big?

Selection isn't our strong suit

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

At the end of 2022 the same stuff was rolled out, we need to go to the draft to smooth out the cap and we will target players next year, 2023 comes around and we trade out two players, bring in Hollands and the cheap and go to the draft in the late 20’s, the same lines were rolled out, we need to hit the draft and we will target players next year and now its 2024 and we are rolling out the same lines.


We are desperate for a second key defender, last year one went as a free agent, this year Barass will go to the Hawks and Battle went to the Hawks, we weren’t linked to any, the only reason why a club desperate for another key defender wasn’t in the discussion is because we have no $$$$.

Maybe next year will be the year we have the $$$ to go after a player of need but people already are talking about the big $$$ needed to re-sign Weits and TDK.

With all theses gun players on big $$$$$ and the need to re-sign two more players on long term big $$$$ deals, why dont we have anything to show for it? It’s not like these players are young and then why are clubs who have been continually better than in the past, have $$$$ to target players in areas of need to strengthen their teams?

We're not desperate for anything.

1. Ruck - a fit TDK is as good as any in the comp, and still improving.

(Pitto as back up concerns me... just too limited). I would have shopped him, found another tall in the VFL or other league.... required - height, agro, bit of athleticism and able to take a mark. That's not asking a lot... )

2. KPD - Weiters is da man, one of the best.

(Young is clearly not in favour, support from Brackets, Kemp, Haynes, maybe JSOS, make it not diabolical - a project young KPD a good idea)

3. Quicker mids - well I stand by the argument that a fit Walsh and Cerra change everything.

(with the Campos coming in, Binns and Wilson in the wings... it ain't all gloom)

4. Small forwards - feel sorry for Owies

(get it that list spots are tight, but a 33 goal, 15 assist season should get you a ticket next season! And unfortunate that Durdin and Mots had injury riddled years...a farce that Fantasia stays on the list frankly - a Vossy Captain's pick so egg on the face?)

5. Quality players - Houston is that.

We are challenging NOW - Houston would improve our output NOW.

A #12 draftee may or may not make it - and we'll only likely know in 2026 or later....

 

[Juddrockz]

Does anyone else think it's really strange that all of the ITK's turned up on here at the same time last week and then they all just disappeared again?

 

[Accidental genius]

So Durdin is a midfielder but we’re playing him as a small forward ??

Can’t see how he breaks into the midfield group…particularly with two crook shoulders.

He’d be better off learning the small forward caper real quick.

 

[blues4flag]

Which players from last years first round or the year before, had a massive positive effect in their first season?

Now if you find a few, look where they were drafted and are they comparable to us?

First year draftees can have a positive impact, its very very rare for one to have a massive impact, you are then assuming both have a massive impact, you actually have to get the picks right first.

I assume we will pick a KPD with one of the picks, if this is the case, I really doubt they have any impact at all.

I dont believe draftees will have much of an impact because its rare theory do and i think Voss leans heavily to players he trusts.

Lions had 5 recent draftees playing in the grand final. Morris (2023), Fletcher and Ashcroft (2022), Lohmann and Wilmot (2021). All played crucial roles. 4 of them top 20 picks.

Yes, there's risk associated with the draft but there's also potential for outsized returns.
Brisbane didn't sell the farm, they've hit the draft consistently over a decade. They didn't panic when they first made finals in 2019. They continued bringing in top end talent, that's seen them at the pointy end for 6 years, with no signs of slowing down.

Some names:
Rayner (pick 1)
Ashcroft (2)
Mccluggage (3)
Fletcher (12)
Hipwood (14)
Bailey (15)
Wilmot (16)
Berry (17)
Starcevich (18)
Lohmann (20)
Gardiner (22)
Lester (28)
Morris (31)
Coleman (37)

They did trade in key players (Daniher, Neale, Dunkley, Ah Chee, Doedee) but the core of their list was home grown.

Compare that to Carlton:
Weitering (1)
Walsh (1)
McKay (10)
Hollands (11)
Curnow (12)
Cripps (13)
Kemp (17)
Motlop (27)
Moir (29)
TDK (30)
Cowan (30)

We've had a few misses along the journey, but most would argue that list contains our 6 best players (Weitering, Walsh, Curnow, Cripps, McKay, TDK). All 11 could be best 22 next season.

It requires a balanced approach but a short window is a fallacy. Good clubs continuously bring in talent and compete year after year. Rather us follow the Geelong / Brisbane / Sydney model than the Richmond model.

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

Sam Edmund on SEN - Dan Houston

5

Dan Houston

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.0

5star

MG

289.2

4star

D

17.6

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.4

4star

MG

319.9

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.2

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

279.8

5star

wants to play for Carlton and that’s his preference, the Vossy connection is strong …

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

Sam Edmund saying Houston still wants to get to Carlton. He apparently had updated information this morning.

 

[RPCB]

Sam Edmund on SEN - Dan Houston wants to play for Carlton and that’s his preference, the Vossy connection is strong …

Sam Edmund saying Houston still wants to get to Carlton. He apparently had updated information this morning.

Good. Get it done, Austin.

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

Sam Edmund saying Houston still wants to get to Carlton. He apparently had updated information this morning.

Sorry for the echo lol

 

[blueboy25]

60 to nil in an elimination final after relying on another team getting beaten to qualify suggests otherwise

And BTW does Richmond beating Sydney suggest the Tigers are close to a GF?

I don't get this narrative.

If Freo won their last game would they be talked about just falling into the finals and needing other teams to lose to make it? I doubt it

We made finals because we won more games than 10 other clubs, its that simple.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

60 to nil in an elimination final after relying on another team getting beaten to qualify suggests otherwise

And BTW does Richmond beating Sydney suggest the Tigers are close to a GF?

No it doesn't.

We belted the Cats yet they ended up missing a GF by a whisker.

The MC screwed up by picking Doc and a bunch of others with no or limited match fitness..... selection integrity was compromised - and it sent a horrible message to the players....

Our midfield - after Cripps, Walsh (* not fit), Cerra (* not fit), Doc (*very not fit) and Kennedy was subbed out early (major brain fade). And another terrible message to the playing group.

Pitto as first ruck - a fail.

You'd almost reckon Vossy had thrown a lazy $500 on the Lions to win big!

 

[ctwenty1]

Does anyone else think it's really strange that all of the ITK's turned up on here at the same time last week and then they all just disappeared again?

maybe they are busy this week

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I would like to think so, but Hawthorn already have 2 key defenders in the bag.

Maybe Austin should announce we're desperate for some defenders and will consider all reasonable offers?

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Sam Edmund on SEN - Dan Houston wants to play for Carlton and that’s his preference, the Vossy connection is strong …

Was it ever in doubt?

Play with your best mate or play with the (sliding) Pies....