Coaching Staff Brendon Bolton - Senior Coach - Locked in until end of 2020 (23/5/18)

[Stig O'Hara]

.....and Eskie goes bang and sends another one off to the Trout Farm.

 

[ESKIE]

.....and Eskie goes bang and sends another one off to the Trout Farm.

And **** the trout farm too !

 

[gbatman]

I have no issues whether you choose to believe or not. But think about it carefully. If you were a board member would you approve of Carlton's stance re the priority pick or do you honestly think all would be in agreement? If the pres and CEO came out with such statements without consulting with the rest of the board would you be happy?

Do your research (everyone). No officials at Carlton have said we will not apply for a priority pick. We've allude to it. We've stated we don't need it, haven't discussed it, aren't interested in it, haven't considered it, don't want to be in that position or want handouts and everything under the sun to detract our interest in it away from giving a straight answer.

If you listen to the interviews and read the articles (quotes only) there's no comments from Carlton declaring that we will not apply for a priority pick.

My take, we have been very political and playing the company line and have been coached on how to handle this question. We detract from it by discussing how we think we have a good young list and don't need it and that's good. The fact every Carlton person replies this way means it's probably been coached into our officials on what to say. Don't say no but say this... It's politics and if they were politicians, the fact that Carlton won't give a straight answer suggests to me that we are definitely going to apply for a priority pick. Like in politics, we have managed to get the media on our side to fit our agenda. The media are pro Carlton priority pick, it's great.

Stating you would want a PP during the season would be the stupidest thing ever. Get the media on your side, then dare the AFL to say no.

The other thing is that noone has asked the relevant people, SOS and McKay about a priority pick. It's their department.

There have been a lot of people stating Carlton will not apply for a priority pick. None of them are employed by Carlton, they have all been people in the media.

Fact check people and please be careful what you believe. A lot of what is written is not true. Agendas and entertainment come before facts in the media.

I'll believe we aren't applying for a PP when an official comes out with a straight answer declaring it. Until then I consider this well played by us.

 

[BlueGum]

Do your research (everyone). No officials at Carlton have said we will not apply for a priority pick. We've allude to it. We've stated we don't need it, haven't discussed it, aren't interested in it, haven't considered it, don't want to be in that position or want handouts and everything under the sun to detract our interest in it away from giving a straight answer.

If you listen to the interviews and read the articles (quotes only) there's no comments from Carlton declaring that we will not apply for a priority pick.

My take, we have been very political and playing the company line and have been coached on how to handle this question. We detract from it by discussing how we think we have a good young list and don't need it and that's good. The fact every Carlton person replies this way means it's probably been coached into our officials on what to say. Don't say no but say this... It's politics and if they were politicians, the fact that Carlton won't give a straight answer suggests to me that we are definitely going to apply for a priority pick. Like in politics, we have managed to get the media on our side to fit our agenda. The media are pro Carlton priority pick, it's great.

Stating you would want a PP during the season would be the stupidest thing ever. Get the media on your side, then dare the AFL to say no.

The other thing is that noone has asked the relevant people, SOS and McKay about a priority pick. It's their department.

There have been a lot of people stating Carlton will not apply for a priority pick. None of them are employed by Carlton, they have all been people in the media.

Fact check people and please be careful what you believe. A lot of what is written is not true. Agendas and entertainment come before facts in the media.

I'll believe we aren't applying for a PP when an official comes out with a straight answer declaring it. Until then I consider this well played by us.

Holy smoke batman, you're right

 

[sosos]

Kapow

 

[mediumsizered]

Richmond rebuild went through 3 coaches if you include Jade Rawlings.

Under Hardwick they went 15 to 12 to 12 to Finals x3. So I would say you cant compare unless we play finals in 2019.

Hardwicks premiership is accredited to a full and thorough review of the footy dept. Hiring of quality assistance such as Neil Balme, Caracella etc and redefining his role to focus on coaching. Well reported.

This off season and associated appointments is our most important in relation to setting us up for the next 3yrs.





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It's not about comparing, it's about looking at the path from when a team hit rock bottom (or close to) & when they finally saluted (if they do) or at least reached an improved level of competitiveness (e.g. us from 2009-2011).

Most clubs that have won premierships in the last decade have done so on the basis of turning their Footy Departments upside down after they have bottomed out. Whether that be playing personnel, coaching personnel, list managers/recruiters, a combination of some or all. As an example, Collingwood bottomed out in 1999, had a quick spike in 2002 & 2003 before bottoming out again in 2005. As I have already pointed out, Richmond also bottomed out twice before ultimately saluting 10 years after they bottomed out for a second time.

The common theme is that the gap between bottoming out & actually winning a premiership has been quite significant on most occasions (Hawthorn excluded). The clubs involved though have generally recognised the weakness of their playing list, or shortcomings in their Footy Department & acted accordingly to set themselves on a path to success, whether that be initially or after bottoming out again. Although we have been down for most of the last 16 years, it was only in 2015 that we finally started a process which most of the successful clubs have been doing since the late '90s/early '00s.

How long it is going to take is difficult to specifically pinpoint, but if history tells us anything, it is not something you can do in 3 years, or even 5 years, unless a lot of things fall into place (see Hawthorn).

 

[Gethelred]

I'm healthy
it's just goo things are lol

As long as you're alright, that's fine.

Just thought I'd ask.

 

[therubbernub]

Last year we won 6 games but led 7 times in last qtrs and lost so you'd expect under normal circumstances aan 8-9 win season. Injuries are an excuse for 5-6 wins, maybe ever 4 at a stretch. Not one! For one win it's a cop out and just covers up other issues. The sides we have sent out are still better than one win. You have to look at what's going on on the field to see we're not exactly progressing. By year 3 there should be enough structure in place, the players should be well drilled enough to partially, obviously not totally, cover for the injury issues as the game is more about the "system" on-field then individuals. All I see is confusion as to the game plan and a lack of effort. That's why we have one win more so than injuries per se. Collingwood and Sydney are alot more talented than us admittedly but they have been smashed by injury but new blokes come in and slot straight into the structure and system and become part of the "chain". Sydney had 9 players on Sunday with had played less than 25 games.

I would have agreed with the 8-9 wins at the start of the year. But the competition has moved on following the tigers win. We simply dont have the speed or fitness -due to a young list and injuries that expose them, to compete. We need speed and run. But simply adding young talented players will not help us next year because they will still be first year AFL players- the vast majority dont have the fitness and run to impact games

 

[StandByyourMan]

soapy you were understanding of all of our previous course forward
so were many understanding of those

that's what remained in the box when Pandora slammed it shut!

but that thing hope doesn't mean anything except hope

we are not the envy of the competition because of what we have in place

I wonder what kind of personnel we will attract on and off field.

I'm sure the big clubs heard sos and his plan to win flags and are shaking in their boots

If you spoke to the coaches and players you would be surprised. Not shaking in boots but a decent dose of respect and understanding.

Do your research (everyone). No officials at Carlton have said we will not apply for a priority pick. We've allude to it. We've stated we don't need it, haven't discussed it, aren't interested in it, haven't considered it, don't want to be in that position or want handouts and everything under the sun to detract our interest in it away from giving a straight answer.

If you listen to the interviews and read the articles (quotes only) there's no comments from Carlton declaring that we will not apply for a priority pick.

My take, we have been very political and playing the company line and have been coached on how to handle this question. We detract from it by discussing how we think we have a good young list and don't need it and that's good. The fact every Carlton person replies this way means it's probably been coached into our officials on what to say. Don't say no but say this... It's politics and if they were politicians, the fact that Carlton won't give a straight answer suggests to me that we are definitely going to apply for a priority pick. Like in politics, we have managed to get the media on our side to fit our agenda. The media are pro Carlton priority pick, it's great.

Stating you would want a PP during the season would be the stupidest thing ever. Get the media on your side, then dare the AFL to say no.

The other thing is that noone has asked the relevant people, SOS and McKay about a priority pick. It's their department.

There have been a lot of people stating Carlton will not apply for a priority pick. None of them are employed by Carlton, they have all been people in the media.

Fact check people and please be careful what you believe. A lot of what is written is not true. Agendas and entertainment come before facts in the media.

I'll believe we aren't applying for a PP when an official comes out with a straight answer declaring it. Until then I consider this well played by us.

post of the week. Again, what I wanted to say, but said better.

 

[Soapy V]

I have always expected finals in 2020 at the earliest.

Does it matter if it’s 6 wins this then 10 then 12? Will people be as happy with 1 win then 6 then 12?

This year has been hard but i see massive benefits. Issues will be fixed and the younger players will benefit hugely getting through this.

2020 is when I see us getting to finals and IMO that’s when Bolton should start to be properly judged especially from the outside. To judge him on this year is naive and unfair.

I’m really looking forward to 2019 especially after a good or very good trade/draft period

 

[mickelboy182]

Or maybe judgment doesnt need a ultimate cutoff point and should be ongoing and fluid... Wild thought.

 

[Soapy V]

If you spoke to the coaches and players you would be surprised. Not shaking in boots but a decent dose of respect and understanding.

post of the week. Again, what I wanted to say, but said better.

Exactly. I can confirm the players are united and happy

 

[BIGGUS 64]

I’m really looking forward to 2019 especially after a good or very good trade/draft period

And of course, a good, solid pre-season, especially for the likes of Harry, SPS, Willo, Dow, LOB, Pickett, etc...

 

[Captain Cripps]

It's not about comparing, it's about looking at the path from when a team hit rock bottom (or close to) & when they finally saluted (if they do) or at least reached an improved level of competitiveness (e.g. us from 2009-2011).

Most clubs that have won premierships in the last decade have done so on the basis of turning their Footy Departments upside down after they have bottomed out. Whether that be playing personnel, coaching personnel, list managers/recruiters, a combination of some or all. As an example, Collingwood bottomed out in 1999, had a quick spike in 2002 & 2003 before bottoming out again in 2005. As I have already pointed out, Richmond also bottomed out twice before ultimately saluting 10 years after they bottomed out for a second time.

The common theme is that the gap between bottoming out & actually winning a premiership has been quite significant on most occasions (Hawthorn excluded). The clubs involved though have generally recognised the weakness of their playing list, or shortcomings in their Footy Department & acted accordingly to set themselves on a path to success, whether that be initially or after bottoming out again. Although we have been down for most of the last 16 years, it was only in 2015 that we finally started a process which most of the successful clubs have been doing since the late '90s/early '00s.

How long it is going to take is difficult to specifically pinpoint, but if history tells us anything, it is not something you can do in 3 years, or even 5 years, unless a lot of things fall into place (see Hawthorn).

So pies bottomed out in 2005 and we’re premiers 2010, that’s 5 years from s/house to White House.
And there are people saying basically 5 years to be competitive.

 

[BIGGUS 64]

The other thing is that noone has asked the relevant people, SOS and McKay about a priority pick. It's their department.

Exactly. Who thinks SOS is not going to be interested in having an extra 1st round pick to play with? lol

 

[Vamos Juddamente]

So pies bottomed out in 2005 and we’re premiers 2010, that’s 5 years from s/house to White House.
And there are people saying basically 5 years to be competitive.

Pies did not really bottom out in 2005. They had some losses early and basically put the cue in the rack with 10 weeks to go and put about 10 players in for surgery. They totally tanked for the priority pick. No way they were a bottom two team that year.

 

[gbatman]

Exactly. Who thinks SOS is not going to be interested in having an extra 1st round pick to play with? lol

I find it difficult to believe that we would do something as stupid as reject the opportunity to have another early draft pick to play with. Gain nothing by rejecting it. It would be the sort of mistake that should see people's position questioned. It would be like getting a soft free kick in front of goal and giving the ball back to the umpire because you didn't think you needed that goal. We haven't said we won't take it, there's nothing to gain by not taking it, just plenty to lose. Logic and common sense will come to the fore and we will quietly apply for it when the time comes. With the media on our side, our season and previous seasons, we should get it. I think we have handled this well and been very strategic and professional in regards to priority picks because lets face it, we need all the help and as much access to talent as we can get.

 

[mediumsizered]

So pies bottomed out in 2005 and we’re premiers 2010, that’s 5 years from s/house to White House.
And there are people saying basically 5 years to be competitive.

Just to give you a bit of a clue, the following 2010 premiership players were already on Collingwood's list in 2005:
Nick Maxwell, Heritier Lumumba, Heath Shaw, Dane Swan, Alan Didak, Travis Cloke. They also had Leon Davis & Tarkyn Lockyer on their list. Davis played in the drawn GF & Lockyer was an emergency for both GFs in 2010. Thomas & Pendlebury were both drafted in the 2005 draft.

Not a bad headstart when building a list.

You're welcome.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Or maybe judgment doesnt need a ultimate cutoff point and should be ongoing and fluid... Wild thought.

Bullshit! Every body at the club is towing the same line and if Bolts was not performing internally and didn't have the players respect he would be gone already. He cannot be judged simply on wins and losses at this stage of the rebuild and with the injuries that we have had/age demographic of our list. Shit call..

 

[mickelboy182]

Bullshit! Every body at the club is towing the same line and if Bolts was not performing internally and didn't have the players respect he would be gone already. He cannot be judged simply on wins and losses at this stage of the rebuild and with the injuries that we have had/age demographic of our list. Shit call..

Didn't indicate in the slightest what I was judging him on but nice faux outrage

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Didn't indicate in the slightest what I was judging him on but nice faux outrage

You throw out these sweeping let's look deeper at Carlton/Bolton generalisations to shit stir or whatever your agenda is! What more needs to be indicated

 

[Chookie]

It's not about comparing, it's about looking at the path from when a team hit rock bottom (or close to) & when they finally saluted (if they do) or at least reached an improved level of competitiveness (e.g. us from 2009-2011).

Most clubs that have won premierships in the last decade have done so on the basis of turning their Footy Departments upside down after they have bottomed out. Whether that be playing personnel, coaching personnel, list managers/recruiters, a combination of some or all. As an example, Collingwood bottomed out in 1999, had a quick spike in 2002 & 2003 before bottoming out again in 2005. As I have already pointed out, Richmond also bottomed out twice before ultimately saluting 10 years after they bottomed out for a second time.

The common theme is that the gap between bottoming out & actually winning a premiership has been quite significant on most occasions (Hawthorn excluded). The clubs involved though have generally recognised the weakness of their playing list, or shortcomings in their Footy Department & acted accordingly to set themselves on a path to success, whether that be initially or after bottoming out again. Although we have been down for most of the last 16 years, it was only in 2015 that we finally started a process which most of the successful clubs have been doing since the late '90s/early '00s.

How long it is going to take is difficult to specifically pinpoint, but if history tells us anything, it is not something you can do in 3 years, or even 5 years, unless a lot of things fall into place (see Hawthorn).

Couldn't agree more with this. When we often talk about rebuilds its just within context of the playing group but as you quite rightly mention the most successful rebuilds are the ones where the whole football club is put under the microscope and examined. It feels definitely like the more successful clubs have built their foundations on a 'ground up' rebuild, making sure they've got every aspect of their football department right before turning to the playing group.

I remember reading a while ago about the number of rookie players Sydney had on its list and how adept they were at picking players up as rookies and turning them into good AFL footballers. Clearly Sydney has had a competitive advantage when it comes to both a) identifying players with potential, and b) subsequently developing them. And all this comes off the back of the hard work of their football department.

Also agree that it's not really possible to put a time frame on what the club is trying to do, if you look at Geelong Frank Costa took over as president in 1998, Brian Cook appointed CEO a year later, it was effectively a decade long rebuild for them to become a powerhouse.

 

[jpfalvo]

Which took them 7 years

Improvement each year with exception of 2016 where they didnt fall to last.

Played finals and were competitive throughout.

There only year of slipping they had a thorough review and that lead to a premiership. So yes 7years to premiership but played finals after 3.

Most carlton supporters want to see sustained improvement that's building towards something. Let's see what 2019 brings

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[jpfalvo]

yeah but again context

they made finals three years straight before that

they also won a few in a row

which means that they had something to work with

arrow you're a smart guy.. but let me ask you this

how does Richmond and Carlton correlate into the same thing and take identical paths etc?

can you explain your logic?

are we following in their footstools precisely?

Here here

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[jpfalvo]

Just to give you a bit of a clue, the following 2010 premiership players were already on Collingwood's list in 2005:
Nick Maxwell, Heritier Lumumba, Heath Shaw, Dane Swan, Alan Didak, Travis Cloke. They also had Leon Davis & Tarkyn Lockyer on their list. Davis played in the drawn GF & Lockyer was an emergency for both GFs in 2010. Thomas & Pendlebury were both drafted in the 2005 draft.

Not a bad headstart when building a list.

You're welcome.

To add to this... to bottom out in 2005 they managed their list, sent players off to operations early and ended up with Thomas and Pendlebury that year.

Played finals 2006 and almost beat dynastic geelong in 07 prelim.

Again lots of improvement in that list and didnt take multiple years to just become competitive


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