Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[peetoo]

Still haven’t actually had a pick before number six

 

[the harry]

Last few pages are rather embarrassing

 

[Freomaniac]

Nah that entitled flog can stay and slowly waste away at hawthorn .

Had the chance to come back to WA after GC but laughably didn’t get the memo hawks were no longer a destination club and obviously weren’t going to continue their past success.

Spouted he simply didn’t want to fly every second week but everyone Knew it was because he was hopelessly pussy whipped (Is even with that same chick?)and still had stars in his eyes with hawthorn/clarko after years with basket case suns.

Add to the fact that hes never gotten even close to pre injury levels(admittedly was looking like absolute gun) and you d be paying more for his name than actual output

Sad but true about Jaeger O Meara

 

[Freomaniac]

There you go, all you need is 4 weeks to rebuild.

I agree.... Just look at west coast eagles current situation now LOL

 

[Freomaniac]

Clarko going to leave them in a bigger hole than Ross Lyon could ever dream of.

Never bag out Ross Lyon lol

 

[Freomaniac]

A glimpse today of the blueprint all the armchair experts think Hawthorn would be best off following. Dive to the bottom, collect draft picks for years in the hope it allows us to bounce back up the ladder at some difficult to predict moment in the future. In the mean time, entrench a culture of losing because picks are more important than wins. End result is a mentally fragile team with losing deeply ingrained in their DNA. Why would we want to follow Carlton and Melbourne's model? It seems to suck. Yes, you need an elite core, but there is no logical reason why you can't trade it in.

That's the spirit....

 

[peetoo]

Newby hawks fans got a lesson in arrogance from cats supporters in grand final week 2008.

Hawks didn’t win the cats lost apparently. Big big pile on. Then they did the same with tigers fans. Endless lectures about most AAs and tougher opponents.

 

[peetoo]

So glad Hawthorn continued the recruitment philosophy of using both trade and draft most years. It went awry for a while there but appears back on track now. The wrong trades.

Prioritising one over the the other suggests you know exactly where you are in the ‘rebuild clock’ it can easily be earlier or later than you think, and influential supporters can get impatient.

Also look at west coast. By rights the draft should be boosting them. They did get Reid but their start of second round pick was #30. Something is wrong there. Drafting and trading is constantly changing and there’s still thei premiership clock ‘orthodoxy’ which seems to be based on a few clubs who drafted larger numbers in the 2001 national draft

 

[Blackhawk42]

So glad Hawthorn continued the recruitment philosophy of using both trade and draft most years. It went awry for a while there but appears back on track now. The wrong trades.

Prioritising one over the the other suggests you know exactly where you are in the ‘rebuild clock’ it can easily be earlier or later than you think, and influential supporters can get impatient.

Also look at west coast. By rights the draft should be boosting them. They did get Reid but their start of second round pick was #30. Something is wrong there. Drafting and trading is constantly changing and there’s still thei premiership clock ‘orthodoxy’ which seems to be based on a few clubs who drafted larger numbers in the 2001 national draft

I actually like the way the Dogs have approached things since winning the flag in 2016.

They saluted with a young core, but every year it feels as though they land a talented first round draft pick and add a solid player via trade.
It's meant they've gone into every season since with some expectation that they could challenge for the flag if everything aligns.

It hasn't necessarily worked out that way, but the talent on the list is there and they have been a realistic chance of knocking off the best side in the competition every year on their day.

Hawthorn's issue was not prioritising the young talent in that 2016-2020 period.
We're just lucky we struck gold with Dylan Moore, James Worpel and Will Day. Plus a very underrated trade-in of Jarman Impey.

 

[SkyC]

How do Hawthorn fans feel about the O'Meara, Mitchell and Wingard trades in hindsight?

I know they are in pretty good shape now, but I reckon they'd refund those players if they had the choice. Could've picked up Naughton in 2017, who would be perfect for them right now.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

How do Hawthorn fans feel about the O'Meara, Mitchell and Wingard trades in hindsight?

I know they are in pretty good shape now, but I reckon they'd refund those players if they had the choice. Could've picked up Naughton in 2017, who would be perfect for them right now.

Butterfly effect and all that I wouldn’t change a thing because I’m enjoying what we are building, and I love what Chad has brought to us, even if his body is cooked.

We have who we have now because we did what we did then.

 

[Blackhawk42]

How do Hawthorn fans feel about the O'Meara, Mitchell and Wingard trades in hindsight?

I know they are in pretty good shape now, but I reckon they'd refund those players if they had the choice. Could've picked up Naughton in 2017, who would be perfect for them right now.

Yeah, tougher to say in this moment because of our current form.

I will go on record of saying I never thought O'Meara and Wingard were worth pursuing due to the price. And I stand by the fact I was correct.

BUT, Wingard played a role in getting Amon to our club, who has had been huge.
Trading O'Meara meant we acquired Lloyd Meek, who is one of the in-form rucks of the competition.

We also still scored massively out of the 2017 draft despite trading out of the early rounds. Picked up James Worpel and Dylan Moore with late picks.
Adding Jarman Impey during that trade period was also massive.

In hindsight I'd actually say Clarko was the biggest problem. We completely stagnated and became an irrelevant football club in his final few seasons in charge.

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

How do Hawthorn fans feel about the O'Meara, Mitchell and Wingard trades in hindsight?

I know they are in pretty good shape now, but I reckon they'd refund those players if they had the choice. Could've picked up Naughton in 2017, who would be perfect for them right now.

We don't make those trades and Clarkson is probably still at the club. Worse than making those trades

 

[sr36]

Yeah, tougher to say in this moment because of our current form.

I will go on record of saying I never thought O'Meara and Wingard were worth pursuing due to the price. And I stand by the fact I was correct.

BUT, Wingard played a role in getting Amon to our club, who has had been huge.
Trading O'Meara meant we acquired Lloyd Meek, who is one of the in-form rucks of the competition.

We also still scored massively out of the 2017 draft despite trading out of the early rounds. Picked up James Worpel and Dylan Moore with late picks.
Adding Jarman Impey during that trade period was also massive.

In hindsight I'd actually say Clarko was the biggest problem. We completely stagnated and became an irrelevant football club in his final few seasons in charge.

Didn't work, but I think it was worth a crack. You still had some fantastic players.

 

[HairyO]

Didn't work, but I think it was worth a crack. You still had some fantastic players.

Its funny watching people complain about a 3-peat and wishing we brought in youth earlier to get the rebuild cracking.

 

[sr36]

Its funny watching people complain about a 3-peat and wishing we brought in youth earlier to get the rebuild cracking.

If Cyril stayed, Roughy made a full recovery and Jaeger delivered on how good he looked as a kid, you might very well have added to the 4 you won under Clarko - why would you choose to drop rather than trying to keep going with all the talent you still had.

It's not like rebuilds through the draft are guaranteed. Day was pick 13 and Newcombe MSD - not much of how you're going now has come from the drop down towards the bottom of the ladder.

 

[HairyO]

If Cyril stayed, Roughy made a full recovery and Jaeger delivered on how good he looked as a kid, you might very well have added to the 4 you won under Clarko - why would you choose to drop rather than trying to keep going with all the talent you still had.

It's not like rebuilds through the draft are guaranteed. Day was pick 13 and Newcombe MSD - not much of how you're going now has come from the drop down the ladder.

And if Mitchell didnt break his leg and miss an entire year.

People look back with perfect knowledge and judge.

Of course you keep pushing while at the top. Richmond did the same thing. Brisbane did too, 20 years ago.

 

[sr36]

And if Mitchell didnt break his leg and miss an entire year.

People look back with perfect knowledge and judge.

Of course you keep pushing while at the top. Richmond did the same thing. Brisbane did too, 20 years ago.

So did Geelong and they stayed in contentiotn the whole time - winning another one.

 

[peetoo]

If Cyril stayed, Roughy made a full recovery and Jaeger delivered on how good he looked as a kid, you might very well have added to the 4 you won under Clarko - why would you choose to drop rather than trying to keep going with all the talent you still had.

It's not like rebuilds through the draft are guaranteed. Day was pick 13 and Newcombe MSD - not much of how you're going now has come from the drop down towards the bottom of the ladder.

I always maintain the ‘hard rebuild’ orthodoxy is supported by success of teams which rebuilt around the 2001 draft.

Against that carlton had the number one pick 3 years running, and Gold Coast GWS got to pick the first round over and over

 

[Hawker55]

If Cyril stayed, Roughy made a full recovery and Jaeger delivered on how good he looked as a kid, you might very well have added to the 4 you won under Clarko - why would you choose to drop rather than trying to keep going with all the talent you still had.

It's not like rebuilds through the draft are guaranteed. Day was pick 13 and Newcombe MSD - not much of how you're going now has come from the drop down towards the bottom of the ladder.

It's not even that. Roughy plays 2016 we salute that year. At the time he was one of the absolute stars of the comp in terms of flexibility and output and he missed the entire year with cancer - and we were still only an Isaac Smith shank away from a prelim. Rough playing in that team you'd think would significantly improve it.

 

[5minutes_of_Dew]

How do Hawthorn fans feel about the O'Meara, Mitchell and Wingard trades in hindsight?

I know they are in pretty good shape now, but I reckon they'd refund those players if they had the choice. Could've picked up Naughton in 2017, who would be perfect for them right now.

I wanted Lake and Hale to play on in 2016 but we had to regenerate the list.

I think if they stayed we probably would've 4-peated or at least made the GF.

BUT, swings and roundabouts. Clarko is arguably the greatest coach of all time and I back his judgement in to both move older players on as well as bring in elite mids (Mitchell and O'meara) to go for more flags.

I do think we overpaid to get the right picks to make gold coast happy in the Omeara trade. I also think Burton + pick 15 (Xavier Duursma) was massive overs for Wingard given the knocks on his commitment to training/lack of leadership.

 

[sr36]

I always maintain the ‘hard rebuild’ orthodoxy is supported by success of teams which rebuilt around the 2001 draft.

Against that carlton had the number one pick 3 years running, and Gold Coast GWS got to pick the first round over and over

It's a good point. The funny thing is the hard rebuild isn't even supported by that. It wasn't even a team who bottomed right out who got the best results. It was the Cats who were middle of the road in 1999 and 2001 when they had their bumper drafts that set up that dynasty.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yeah, tougher to say in this moment because of our current form.

I will go on record of saying I never thought O'Meara and Wingard were worth pursuing due to the price. And I stand by the fact I was correct.

BUT, Wingard played a role in getting Amon to our club, who has had been huge.
Trading O'Meara meant we acquired Lloyd Meek, who is one of the in-form rucks of the competition.

We also still scored massively out of the 2017 draft despite trading out of the early rounds. Picked up James Worpel and Dylan Moore with late picks.
Adding Jarman Impey during that trade period was also massive.

In hindsight I'd actually say Clarko was the biggest problem. We completely stagnated and became an irrelevant football club in his final few seasons in charge.

Hawks already won the Meek vs Jager O Meara trade.

Don't get me wrong. O Meara had a solid game tonight. I Hope he plays a couple of finals before he retires. He didn't play any finals at the suns or hawks.

I knew Meek was gonna be good, regardless of which Victorian side got him.

Meek reminds me of Sam Jacobs where he spent 4 years at the blues behind Kreuzer. Played 17 games at the blues. Goes to the crows. Spent his prime years there and played finals. Left the crows after 8 seasons as a free agent to GWS and stays there for a year or 2.

Meek spent 5 years at the dockers. Played like 15 games.

Meek will spend his prime years at the hawks. He might leave after 8 or 9 years and go to another club.

 

[Freomaniac]

Its funny watching people complain about a 3-peat and wishing we brought in youth earlier to get the rebuild cracking.

I would be happy to see freo at least win one flag in my lifetime but that is my personal opinion

 

[CobberRodgers]

Hawks already won the Meek vs Jager O Meara trade.

Don't get me wrong. O Meara had a solid game tonight. I Hope he plays a couple of finals before he retires. He didn't play any finals at the suns or hawks.

I knew Meek was gonna be good, regardless of which Victorian side got him.

Meek reminds me of Sam Jacobs where he spent 4 years at the blues behind Kreuzer. Played 17 games at the blues. Goes to the crows. Spent his prime years there and played finals. Left the crows after 8 seasons as a free agent to GWS and stays there for a year or 2.

Meek spent 5 years at the dockers. Played like 15 games.

Meek will spend his prime years at the hawks. He might leave after 8 or 9 years and go to another club.

I’m sure JOM played finals at Hawthorn in 2018?