Official Club Stuff Carlton Academy - Next Gen & Father/Son/Daughter Discussion

[BigFrizz36]

How about a game in Oslo. We do play over there. In the snow.


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I'm looking to do the Tromso midnight half marathon in June next year. Maybe we could do an Oslo/Tromso double header?

 

[norway blue]

I'm looking to do the Tromso midnight half marathon in June next year. Maybe we could do an Oslo/Tromso double header?

Carlton v $
at the Bislett games.


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[DangerousD]

Sure.
My viewpoint is that players that are F/S eligible should not also be eligible to join academies.
It defeats the stated point of these groups, which is to make inroads with under-represented communities & regions.
Were Walker, Johnson or Blakey ever likely to not play Aussie rules?
Trying to claim these players is taking the absolute piss IMO.

It’s all good to have different view points and discussions, the different academies are set up for different things though, the Northern states academies are to develop homegrown players, to avoid reliance on drafting interstate players and losing players moving back home.

In that case Blakey who had lived in Sydney since he was 6 was a part of that, he wasnt forced to and he go to choose which offer he took up, first guy I remember having three to choose from.

The NGA academies are specifically for the recruitment and development of indigenous, African and Asian background players from a certain region, so I’m not sure why Walker or anyone for that matter who’s indigenous, would be excluded from the academy of that area.

I agree with you that these players were always likely to play Aussie rules and i think NGA academies being in the hands of AFL clubs is pretty crap and dilutes the draft but i dont get the frustration about Walker being apart of the Tigers NGA, he lives in the Tigers zone, he’s Indigenous and its not mandatory, i personally dont see any issues here.

Someone the other day thought it was stupid Gresham was part of our NGA, he’s indigenous and he’s in our zone

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'm hiking the Pacific Crest Trail next year starting in May so if we could get a game up in Washington State maybe around September/October that would be great too.

 

[Coona Blues]

Yes it is. Other clubs can't cultivate and keep talent like this. Neither can other draftees attach themselves to clubs. Blakey also chose the club his dad was at currently. So he still 'chose'.


This I agree with. The suns endeavour by the AFL was always more about this than the on field results. It was a long term investment in growing grass roots for the league. To support 18+ clubs they needed the junior pathways up north. Gold coast have done that and have been rewarded imo. All that's required is some handling of top 10 level picks. Not a huge scale change.

Yep. I also see it as flying in the face of people who think there isn't enough talent to sustain the league. I think there's more talent than there's ever been. It just takes a bit longer to develop because of the insane fitness and professionalism standards upheld now.


I also see gws as a bit of a failure like this. Not much they can do. Canterbury through Parra and Penrith and down to Campbelltown is just rugby league. I know the AFL giving them Canberra pissed off a lot in Canberra who don't like the credit for the pathways that were already setup just being taken by gws.

Appreciate your take more than most will.

As an expat Tasmanian from the footy (AFL) mad part of the country who grew up “madder” than most before being “somewhat” (family) forced to relocate in my later teens to Queensland which had (almost) no appreciation of our great game, I have a wider understanding of the evolution of the game in Queensland on a societal level.

As a draft and junior talent follower, I was more aware of the impending juggernaut of the Northern Academies, in particular the Gold Coast version. My knee jerk reaction was similar to most on here, that their access to elite talent must be curtailed. I think I and others failed to see the bigger picture.

Football participation is growing rapidly in the sunshine state, making the Nirthern investment, incursion or whatever you wish to call it a success, at least if sorts. I have come to realise there is another tier. That tier is acceptance and participation from a significant portion of the general public. There has been significant growth in that area. The general public is more AFL accepting, more AFL interested. Many who ridiculed or ignored our game now take a passing interest or better. Conversation, while not overly complex or technical is taking place. The game is taking a hold of sorts.

The next step in the AFL’s expansion has to be for the public to take ownership of their teams. The way to hasten and enhance that is to have their own kids developing, to have investment and ownership in the homegrown stars. Most dyed in the wool AFL supporters and more recently participants here are first, second or even third generation “Mexicans” those of us who have relocated from the southern states. That influx was expanded further during and post Covid. The southern migration has escalated over the past five years. We have growing social issues due to housing shortages. These “migrants” come with often long standing club allegiances, like mine and others on this board for our beloved Blues.

Giving both new Queenslanders and home bred types teams consisting of their own developed juniors, as opposed to a predominantly Victorian and/or other southern states participants making up the team(s), there is the opportunity to put out genuine home grown teams. This will considerably heighten ownership of these clubs among the public. It will grow the competition, genuinely.

So I have come to believe we should not look to curtail the growth of the Academies, we should embrace them. We already have Victorian boys returning home after being drafted interstate. We have the Jason Horne-Francis types returning to SA at the first opportunity. Rankine back home, Tim Kelly, Luke Jackson etc etc. We will have likely dramas around Tasmanian players returning in 2028. Clearly Tassie gets its own academy and the largely open pool should continue until their inception. Clearly it would be a very different Qld kid who would choose to stay in Tassie if drafted there, and vice versa.

While it cannot happen overnight, how about we return to a parochial competition. A Victorian pool, Lions Academy and Suns Academy encompassing most of Queensland. Swans and Giants growing the game and players in NSW. Move the compass in SA and WA to have real academies with players firmly attached, not the makey Uppy crap where they lose access to a kid going in the Top 40. The Gold Ciast having Melbourne NGA star Mac Andrew is a galling outlier to movements when combined with their recent and upcoming hauls.

How Victoria is managed whether open pool, NGA component or whatever would need to evolve. Players in all states would need to option to opt out of academies and participate in an open draft pool should there be circumstances prompting it. Failure to give that option would amount to restraint if trade. Clearly players could come from outside academies, but it would be a difficult path.

Most of us oldies will attest that we miss the golden years of the VFL. Home and away games against each other team, the tribal nature of the competition. What an era. There are legitimate ways we can return to some semblance of that model. It would take five years of evolution, but I see no more outliers moving to that type of model than the current compromised drafts and copious outliers and inequalities.

Make the clubs earn their keep. Genuinely grow the game. Engage the public to a level never seen before across most of our great country.

We Blues do not want to lose access to our Father/son prospects and neither we should. If the AFL is going to further bastardise the competition, let’s advantage the game as an entity. Bring back parochialism for all. New supporters, or indeed new Australians, give them ownership, not just picking a team in colour or name. Return to representation. Give the kids an avenue to represent their home rather than become notionally attached to a group of players and a jumper which means little to them.

I considered putting this up as a stand alone thread. I firmly believe we are trying to exist under the charter of the AFL who have eroded the identity of so many in recent times. It would be just as equitable as what we are currently doing and far more meaningful.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Appreciate your take more than most will.

As an expat Tasmanian from the footy (AFL) mad part of the country who grew up “madder” than most before being “somewhat” (family) forced to relocate in my later teens to Queensland which had (almost) no appreciation of our great game, I have a wider understanding of the evolution of the game in Queensland on a societal level.

As a draft and junior talent follower, I was more aware of the impending juggernaut of the Northern Academies, in particular the Gold Coast version. My knee jerk reaction was similar to most on here, that their access to elite talent must be curtailed. I think I and others failed to see the bigger picture.

Football participation is growing rapidly in the sunshine state, making the Nirthern investment, incursion or whatever you wish to call it a success, at least if sorts. I have come to realise there is another tier. That tier is acceptance and participation from a significant portion of the general public. There has been significant growth in that area. The general public is more AFL accepting, more AFL interested. Many who ridiculed or ignored our game now take a passing interest or better. Conversation, while not overly complex or technical is taking place. The game is taking a hold of sorts.

The next step in the AFL’s expansion has to be for the public to take ownership of their teams. The way to hasten and enhance that is to have their own kids developing, to have investment and ownership in the homegrown stars. Most dyed in the wool AFL supporters and more recently participants here are first, second or even third generation “Mexicans” those of us who have relocated from the southern states. That influx was expanded further during and post Covid. The southern migration has escalated over the past five years. We have growing social issues due to housing shortages. These “migrants” come with often long standing club allegiances, like mine and others on this board for our beloved Blues.

Giving both new Queenslanders and home bred types teams consisting of their own developed juniors, as opposed to a predominantly Victorian and/or other southern states participants making up the team(s), there is the opportunity to put out genuine home grown teams. This will considerably heighten ownership of these clubs among the public. It will grow the competition, genuinely.

So I have come to believe we should not look to curtail the growth of the Academies, we should embrace them. We already have Victorian boys returning home after being drafted interstate. We have the Jason Horne-Francis types returning to SA at the first opportunity. Rankine back home, Tim Kelly, Luke Jackson etc etc. We will have likely dramas around Tasmanian players returning in 2028. Clearly Tassie gets its own academy and the largely open pool should continue until their inception. Clearly it would be a very different Qld kid who would choose to stay in Tassie if drafted there, and vice versa.

While it cannot happen overnight, how about we return to a parochial competition. A Victorian pool, Lions Academy and Suns Academy encompassing most of Queensland. Swans and Giants growing the game and players in NSW. Move the compass in SA and WA to have real academies with players firmly attached, not the makey Uppy crap where they lose access to a kid going in the Top 40. The Gold Ciast having Melbourne NGA star Mac Andrew is a galling outlier to movements when combined with their recent and upcoming hauls.

How Victoria is managed whether open pool, NGA component or whatever would need to evolve. Players in all states would need to option to opt out of academies and participate in an open draft pool should there be circumstances prompting it. Failure to give that option would amount to restraint if trade. Clearly players could come from outside academies, but it would be a difficult path.

Most of us oldies will attest that we miss the golden years of the VFL. Home and away games against each other team, the tribal nature of the competition. What an era. There are legitimate ways we can return to some semblance of that model. It would take five years of evolution, but I see no more outliers moving to that type of model than the current compromised drafts and copious outliers and inequalities.

Make the clubs earn their keep. Genuinely grow the game. Engage the public to a level never seen before across most of our great country.

We Blues do not want to lose access to our Father/son prospects and neither we should. If the AFL is going to further bastardise the competition, let’s advantage the game as an entity. Bring back parochialism for all. New supporters, or indeed new Australians, give them ownership, not just picking a team in colour or name. Return to representation. Give the kids an avenue to represent their home rather than become notionally attached to a group of players and a jumper which means little to them.

I considered putting this up as a stand alone thread. I firmly believe we are trying to exist under the charter of the AFL who have eroded the identity of so many in recent times. It would be just as equitable as what we are currently doing and far more meaningful.

This is far too thoughtful for big footy mate

 

[My Hat]

Well handled by Voss. Made it perfectly clear what the club thinks of the proposed change.

‘Shouldn’t be able to do that’: Voss fears sudden AFL draft rule change to ruin Blues’ plans

‘Shouldn’t be able to do that’: Voss fears sudden AFL draft rule change to ruin Blues’ plans

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[BlueJet]

It’s all good to have different view points and discussions, the different academies are set up for different things though, the Northern states academies are to develop homegrown players, to avoid reliance on drafting interstate players and losing players moving back home.

In that case Blakey who had lived in Sydney since he was 6 was a part of that, he wasnt forced to and he go to choose which offer he took up, first guy I remember having three to choose from.

The NGA academies are specifically for the recruitment and development of indigenous, African and Asian background players from a certain region, so I’m not sure why Walker or anyone for that matter who’s indigenous, would be excluded from the academy of that area.

I agree with you that these players were always likely to play Aussie rules and i think NGA academies being in the hands of AFL clubs is pretty crap and dilutes the draft but i dont get the frustration about Walker being apart of the Tigers NGA, he lives in the Tigers zone, he’s Indigenous and its not mandatory, i personally dont see any issues here.

Someone the other day thought it was stupid Gresham was part of our NGA, he’s indigenous and he’s in our zone

I know.
The general idea is that you're to put the work in to win the hearts and minds of communities that are otherwise not interested in footy be that in QLD/NSW or underrepresented communities (be that migrant or indigenous) and the reward for this investment is that you have developed a pipeline of talent.
Walker and Blakey are at odds with this and whilst the rules obviously allow for it, I feel it fundamentally goes against the rationale for bringing the rules in.
The likelihood is that sons of 200-300 game players are going to play either way and already have a higher profile & inroad to the AFL than their peers, meaning that they hardly need an academy to get them into the sport.

Criticism of Gresham is pretty silly though as it seems to be predicated on the fact his brother is on an AFL list.

 

[RPCB]

Sooo….. are we in danger of not drafting the Campo twins and Cody Walker?

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Sure.
My viewpoint is that players that are F/S eligible should not also be eligible to join academies.
It defeats the stated point of these groups, which is to make inroads with under-represented communities & regions.
Were Walker, Johnson or Blakey ever likely to not play Aussie rules?
Trying to claim these players is taking the absolute piss IMO.

100% agree.

It suits the AFLs purpose to help prop up the interstate clubs but makes zero sense.

 

[Opium]

Sooo….. are we in danger of not drafting the Campo twins and Cody Walker?

If both Campo twins get selected in the first round we will need to find two first rounders to match if the alleged changes go ahead.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

On reflection, if I were an administrator trying to usher through some potentially unpopular changes, creating a fuss about the timing, the agreeing to a one year ‘stay’ isn’t the worst move.

 

[RPCB]

If both Campo twins get selected in the first round we will need to find two first rounders to match if the alleged changes go ahead.

I reckon Ben might. Lucas probably not. Hopefully these changes don't come into affect this year as that would just be ridiculous.

 

[DangerousD]

If both Campo twins get selected in the first round we will need to find two first rounders to match if the alleged changes go ahead.

I would be shocked if the new rules, even if brought in this year, stated that. It would be a disaster for clubs and not because they would have to pay a first for a player, but because Carlton and other clubs, would have no idea where Lucas for example will go, most are saying roughly 30-40, in that case you would need to have extra 2nd and 3rd round picks.

If the AFL wanted to do something like this, it would be more around needing to use a pick to pay for the bid within a certain amount of picks.

Also this opens the door to clubs getting together and staying, if we have to pay within a certain number of picks, then we need to know when a pick will come in.

If they aren’t careful, they could be killing the draft in slow motion.

 

[Lace_Out]

Appreciate your take more than most will.

As an expat Tasmanian from the footy (AFL) mad part of the country who grew up “madder” than most before being “somewhat” (family) forced to relocate in my later teens to Queensland which had (almost) no appreciation of our great game, I have a wider understanding of the evolution of the game in Queensland on a societal level.

As a draft and junior talent follower, I was more aware of the impending juggernaut of the Northern Academies, in particular the Gold Coast version. My knee jerk reaction was similar to most on here, that their access to elite talent must be curtailed. I think I and others failed to see the bigger picture.

Football participation is growing rapidly in the sunshine state, making the Nirthern investment, incursion or whatever you wish to call it a success, at least if sorts. I have come to realise there is another tier. That tier is acceptance and participation from a significant portion of the general public. There has been significant growth in that area. The general public is more AFL accepting, more AFL interested. Many who ridiculed or ignored our game now take a passing interest or better. Conversation, while not overly complex or technical is taking place. The game is taking a hold of sorts.

The next step in the AFL’s expansion has to be for the public to take ownership of their teams. The way to hasten and enhance that is to have their own kids developing, to have investment and ownership in the homegrown stars. Most dyed in the wool AFL supporters and more recently participants here are first, second or even third generation “Mexicans” those of us who have relocated from the southern states. That influx was expanded further during and post Covid. The southern migration has escalated over the past five years. We have growing social issues due to housing shortages. These “migrants” come with often long standing club allegiances, like mine and others on this board for our beloved Blues.

Giving both new Queenslanders and home bred types teams consisting of their own developed juniors, as opposed to a predominantly Victorian and/or other southern states participants making up the team(s), there is the opportunity to put out genuine home grown teams. This will considerably heighten ownership of these clubs among the public. It will grow the competition, genuinely.

So I have come to believe we should not look to curtail the growth of the Academies, we should embrace them. We already have Victorian boys returning home after being drafted interstate. We have the Jason Horne-Francis types returning to SA at the first opportunity. Rankine back home, Tim Kelly, Luke Jackson etc etc. We will have likely dramas around Tasmanian players returning in 2028. Clearly Tassie gets its own academy and the largely open pool should continue until their inception. Clearly it would be a very different Qld kid who would choose to stay in Tassie if drafted there, and vice versa.

While it cannot happen overnight, how about we return to a parochial competition. A Victorian pool, Lions Academy and Suns Academy encompassing most of Queensland. Swans and Giants growing the game and players in NSW. Move the compass in SA and WA to have real academies with players firmly attached, not the makey Uppy crap where they lose access to a kid going in the Top 40. The Gold Ciast having Melbourne NGA star Mac Andrew is a galling outlier to movements when combined with their recent and upcoming hauls.

How Victoria is managed whether open pool, NGA component or whatever would need to evolve. Players in all states would need to option to opt out of academies and participate in an open draft pool should there be circumstances prompting it. Failure to give that option would amount to restraint if trade. Clearly players could come from outside academies, but it would be a difficult path.

Most of us oldies will attest that we miss the golden years of the VFL. Home and away games against each other team, the tribal nature of the competition. What an era. There are legitimate ways we can return to some semblance of that model. It would take five years of evolution, but I see no more outliers moving to that type of model than the current compromised drafts and copious outliers and inequalities.

Make the clubs earn their keep. Genuinely grow the game. Engage the public to a level never seen before across most of our great country.

We Blues do not want to lose access to our Father/son prospects and neither we should. If the AFL is going to further bastardise the competition, let’s advantage the game as an entity. Bring back parochialism for all. New supporters, or indeed new Australians, give them ownership, not just picking a team in colour or name. Return to representation. Give the kids an avenue to represent their home rather than become notionally attached to a group of players and a jumper which means little to them.

I considered putting this up as a stand alone thread. I firmly believe we are trying to exist under the charter of the AFL who have eroded the identity of so many in recent times. It would be just as equitable as what we are currently doing and far more meaningful.

Great post.

Not sure Tassie needs an academy though.

GWS and GC are based in NRL territory which was the main reason I thought they set up academies there.

Taswegians love their footy and as such should get big crowds and make it more attractive to footballers as a destination.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Happy for Tassie to have an academy for up to 3 years prior to coming in and 5 years after joining, as long as the draft concessions aren’t as bad as they were for GC and GWS.

They can’t have both Academy AND ridiculous draft concessions

They are a football state and shouldn’t need an academy, but I get the need to fill the team with as many locals as possible early on in the process.


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[AndyLucimitis]

This is far too thoughtful for big footy mate

Yeh ....a little more detail would be nice

 

[teagueyubeauty]

In relation to academy/fs/NGA, they can have the best of both worlds and stage the introduction of the changes

For example, if they were to go down the route of different mechanisms being changed ie sliding scale of discount like 20% for first choice, 10% for second, 5% for third, 0% for any further then you could bring that in this year.

If you were changing the points allocation to each pick then I think that needs to wait until 2025

I doubt they are that smart though and goes against their dictatorial DNA


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[lukep_86]

If both Campo twins get selected in the first round we will need to find two first rounders to match if the alleged changes go ahead.

This is the most ridiculous part IMO, we can't just duck down to the shops and pick up a couple of first round picks. All clubs plan for future drafts years in advance, including father/son and academy picks, as well as potential trades. The f wits at the AFL can't just drop a bomb like this, I really hope we push back if they try.

 

[Coona Blues]

Great post.

Not sure Tassie needs an academy though.

GWS and GC are based in NRL territory which was the main reason I thought they set up academies there.

Taswegians love their footy and as such should get big crowds and make it more attractive to footballers as a destination.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

Not for the fan engagement, but definitely for talent development. The growing trend of Tassie boys playing for VIC clubs in the Coates Talent League needs to be addressed.

 

[katmanblue]

Sure.
My viewpoint is that players that are F/S eligible should not also be eligible to join academies.
It defeats the stated point of these groups, which is to make inroads with under-represented communities & regions.
Were Walker, Johnson or Blakey ever likely to not play Aussie rules?
Trying to claim these players is taking the absolute piss IMO.

They should be able to join academies but not drafted under that scheme.

On SM-F946B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Worm4]

This is the most ridiculous part IMO, we can't just duck down to the shops and pick up a couple of first round picks. All clubs plan for future drafts years in advance, including father/son and academy picks, as well as potential trades. The f wits at the AFL can't just drop a bomb like this, I really hope we push back if they try.

Lucas is probably a 3rd or 4th rounder so if any club want to have a crack at him early, I say good luck to that club and call their bluff

 

[InsufficientIntent]

Cody Walker with 20 and 2 goals (with a couple of shots that missed) for his Echuca seniors debut on the weekend. Think we've got another good one here

 

[Coops93]

Yes it is. Other clubs can't cultivate and keep talent like this. Neither can other draftees attach themselves to clubs. Blakey also chose the club his dad was at currently. So he still 'chose'.


This I agree with. The suns endeavour by the AFL was always more about this than the on field results. It was a long term investment in growing grass roots for the league. To support 18+ clubs they needed the junior pathways up north. Gold coast have done that and have been rewarded imo. All that's required is some handling of top 10 level picks. Not a huge scale change.

Yep. I also see it as flying in the face of people who think there isn't enough talent to sustain the league. I think there's more talent than there's ever been. It just takes a bit longer to develop because of the insane fitness and professionalism standards upheld now.


I also see gws as a bit of a failure like this. Not much they can do. Canterbury through Parra and Penrith and down to Campbelltown is just rugby league. I know the AFL giving them Canberra pissed off a lot in Canberra who don't like the credit for the pathways that were already setup just being taken by gws.

The comparison to GWS is interesting, I agree they haven't been as successful, though I don't think they ever really had a fighting chance in that location.

There's always been ok AFL support on the Gold Coast and a thriving junior competition. Probably not to what you see in Vic or SA, but certainly enough whereby having a club to grow the game more has a fighting chance. Probably also helps that the Titans are barely supported so the competition between codes isn't as intense as what it would be in Western Sydney. But I've always known Carlton in particular to get very good support at the Gabba and even at the old Carrara Stadium, which has continued now.

I think they actually get more support in Canberra and have wondered if they'd be better off just being the Canberra Giants. They certainly seem to get better crowds in Canberra, though that's just anecdotal from when I've seen games there.

 

[Coona Blues]

Lucas is probably a 3rd or 4th rounder so if any club want to have a crack at him early, I say go good luck to that club and call their bluff

I agreed with you until Sunday’s game. He elevated considerably on his previous representative form this year and last. Is more skilled than Ben, so no guarantees where he goes. I have him best guess early third/ late second, but could see an argument he could have fallen to rookie draft prior to his most recent game. Then we have a couple of vocal nuffies making Rozee comparisons publically.

Plenty to play out…