Banter Carlton is better in 2024. Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[Fadge]

...every bit of evidence shows collingwoods injuries were no way worse than carltons - except some magical one you made up of 'top 15' which literally nobody else uses.

That's because I analyse data and don't simply get seduced by a table that is presented by someone else....

But yeah, I guess losing Jack Silvagni for 24 games is the equivalent of losing Jordan De Goey for 10 (and having him play injured in most of the games he did play)...

 

[Worm4]

Strong retort.

At least it's not repetitive, or another cut and paste job

 

[Worm4]

That's because I analyse data and don't simply get seduced by a table that is presented by someone else....

But yeah, I guess losing Jack Silvagni for 24 games is the equivalent of losing Jordan De Goey for 10 (and having him play injured in most of the games he did play)...

Is this the same data analysis that had Carlton finishing 16th last year, and 14th next year ? It's not really a good source of information for you is it ....

 

[CarmenSandiego]

That's because I analyse data and don't simply get seduced by a table that is presented by someone else....

But yeah, I guess losing Jack Silvagni for 24 games is the equivalent of losing Jordan De Goey for 10 (and having him play injured in most of the games he did play)...

lol, spare me.

your ‘data analysis’ is whatever rubbish you can throw together to suit whatever argument you try to make. i tore your analysis to shreds the other day regarding the laziness of your variables and you had no response - it was just ‘do YoUr OwN tAbLe’.

to sit there with a straight face and say collingwood had a worse injury crisis than carlton this year is some of the most smooth brained shit i’ve read on here. i’ve seen more logic and honesty in the bay.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Is this the same data analysis that had Carlton finishing 16th last year, and 14th next year ? It's not really a good source of information for you is it ....

or richmond to be bottom 4 in 2017? or melbourne to be bottom 6 in 2021? or maybe the pies overpowering fellow top 4 contender st kilda to take out back to back flags in 2024.

real nostradamus is this bloke.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Have I got this right that you guys are both fighting for Houston?

Would be a great get for Carlton.

 

[Fadge]

lol, spare me.

your ‘data analysis’ is whatever rubbish you can throw together to suit whatever argument you try to make. i tore your analysis to shreds the other day regarding the laziness of your variables and you had no response - it was just ‘do YoUr OwN tAbLe’.

to sit there with a straight face and say collingwood had a worse injury crisis than carlton this year is some of the most smooth brained shit i’ve read on here. i’ve seen more logic and honesty in the bay.

You really need to realise that Carlton aren't the only club who get injuries.

I didn't engage in your response because it wasn't worth the time of day to do so.

The bottom line is - Collingwood lost more games to injuries by their better players than Carlton did.

But you don't want to hear that, because how would you then be able to use the excuse that Carlton 'underperformed due to injury' for 10 of the last 11 years?

I'd really like to see a list of best 23 Carlton players who missed the 130 odd games in total.

I mean, surely it wouldn't include players like Marchbank, Cunningham, Motlop and Martin...

 

[Fadge]

or richmond to be bottom 4 in 2017? or melbourne to be bottom 6 in 2021? or maybe the pies overpowering fellow top 4 contender st kilda to take out back to back flags in 2024.

real nostradamus is this bloke.

Relevant to this thread, I've predicted Carlton to be a non-contender every year since I joined BigFooty in 2007.

Guess what my strike rate has been with those predictions?

 

[CarmenSandiego]

You really need to realise that Carlton aren't the only club who get injuries.

I didn't engage in your response because it wasn't worth the time of day to do so.

The bottom line is - Collingwood lost more games to injuries by their better players than Carlton did.

But you don't want to hear that, because how would you then be able to use the excuse that Carlton 'underperformed due to injury' for 10 of the last 11 years?

I'd really like to see a list of best 23 Carlton players who missed the 130 odd games in total.

I mean, surely it wouldn't include players like Marchbank, Cunningham, Motlop and Martin...

once again, you have to be a real smooth brain simpleton to look at injuries as narrowly as their ‘best players’ (which is subjective btw).

who was the opposition each week?
how healthy were they?
what was their form like?
who would’ve been injured x players matchup?
what’s the depth like for that position?
is the ‘non best 22’ depth option injuries too?
did the weather impact the impact of injuries? maybe it was wet and mcstay wouldn’t have touched it so the damage was minimized.

the list could be infinite.

it’s a simpleton data analysis for a simpleton poster.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Relevant to this thread, I've predicted Carlton to be a non-contender every year since I joined BigFooty in 2007.

Guess what my strike rate has been with those predictions?

lol i’ve done the same thing with gold coast. i don’t parade around the interwebz telling everyone what a genius i am. nor do lazily make the same prediction each year based on ‘history’.

 

[Fadge]

once again, you have to be a real smooth brain simpleton to look at injuries as narrowly as their ‘best players’ (which is subjective btw).

who was the opposition each week?
how healthy were they?
what was their form like?
who would’ve been injured x players matchup?
what’s the depth like for that position?
is the ‘non best 22’ depth option injuries too?
did the weather impact the impact of injuries? maybe it was wet and mcstay wouldn’t have touched it so the damage was minimized.

the list could be infinite.

it’s a simpleton data analysis for a simpleton poster.

And as I said at the time, I'm happy for you to perform that additional analysis, if you think you'll prove a point.

But it would be a marginal exercise - swings, roundabouts, and all that - long term injuries to a team's best players have the greatest impact, and I've shared the data on that front.

But, but, but - 'best players is subjective'. Even when I named them in the post.

But I guess 'someone else's unnamed best 22 is gospel'.....

 

[Fadge]

lol i’ve done the same thing with gold coast. i don’t parade around the interwebz telling everyone what a genius i am. nor do lazily make the same prediction each year based on ‘history’.

Good analogy.

From my perspective, it's been pretty clear that the two worst performing teams since I've been on BigFooty weren't going to contend during my 18 years on the platform.

But, here's the bad news for a Carlton supporter....

Gold Coast are currently building a list that could see them contend within the next couple of years, whilst Carlton are just continuing to do what Carlton do best. Floundering.

 

[Worm4]

or richmond to be bottom 4 in 2017? or melbourne to be bottom 6 in 2021? or maybe the pies overpowering fellow top 4 contender st kilda to take out back to back flags in 2024.

real nostradamus is this bloke.

Same bloke says Daicos is the best player in the comp over the past 2 years, despite Cripps having 17 best on grounds performances in that time , as opposed to Nick's 12. Delusional

 

[Fadge]

Same bloke says Daicos is the best player in the comp over the past 2 years, despite Cripps having 17 best on grounds performances in that time , as opposed to Nick's 12. Delusional

Jeepers.

Cripps must have had an amazing 2024 (or Daicos a poor 2024) to have overtaken Daicos given their respective 2023 performances, where Daicos was undisputed one of the top 2 players in the competition, and was trumped by his influential Preliminary Finals and Grand Finals, coming back from a potentially season ending leg injury.

Cripps' 2023 meanwhile:
AA Squad (failed to make the team)
5th in Carlton's Best and Fairest
20th in the AFLCA Coaches Award (39 votes behind Daicos)
Equal 9th in the Brownlow (6 votes behind Daicos)
Outside the published Top 5 in the AFLPA MVP (Daicos was 2nd).

And you're going on the number of 3 vote games the respective players have received in the Brownlow as your single data point?

You were saying?

Delusional indeed...(and supported by Falcon)

Oh my.

 

[Worm4]

Jeepers.

Cripps must have had an amazing 2024 (or Daicos a poor 2024) to have overtaken Daicos given their respective 2023 performances, where Daicos was undisputed one of the top 2 players in the competition, and was trumped by his influential Preliminary Finals and Grand Finals, coming back from a potentially season ending leg injury.

Cripps' 2023 meanwhile:
AA Squad (failed to make the team)
5th in Carlton's Best and Fairest
20th in the AFLCA Coaches Award (39 votes behind Daicos)
Equal 9th in the Brownlow (6 votes behind Daicos)
Outside the published Top 5 in the AFLPA MVP (Daicos was 2nd).

And you're going on the number of 3 vote games the respective players have received in the Brownlow as your single data point?

You were saying?

Delusional indeed...(and supported by Falcon)

Oh my.

I wouldn't go off your data as you are generally wrong as proven with your estimations of ladder positions of clubs over the years.

 

[Fadge]

I wouldn't go off your data...

Maybe you should.

You might get something right for a change.

I mean, surely when you get a like from Falcon, alarm bells must start ringing?

But do feel free to share the data that supports my delusion around assessing Daicos as a better player than Cripps over the past two seasons.

And please, this time used more than a single, flawed data point.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

And as I said at the time, I'm happy for you to perform that additional analysis, if you think you'll prove a point.

But it would be a marginal exercise - swings, roundabouts, and all that - long term injuries to a team's best players have the greatest impact, and I've shared the data on that front.

But, but, but - 'best players is subjective'. Even when I named them in the post.

But I guess 'someone else's unnamed best 22 is gospel'.....

the variables are borderline infinite, that's why it's rubbish to even attempt to create a narrative where collingwoods were the worst, but happy to ridicule yours.

2023 copeland trophy top 10 games played & games missed + opposition

1. josh daicos: 23/23 games
2. nick daicos: 23/23 games
3. brayden maynard: 23/23 games
4. tom mitchell: 6/23 games (played against 4x top 8 teams)
5. scott pendelbury: 20/23 games (missed games v dogs, demons & north lol)
6. isaac quaynor: 23/23 games
7. jack crisp: 23/23 games
8. brody miochek: 11/23 games (missed 6x bottom 8 teams)
9. darcy moore: 23/23 games
10. jordan de joey: 13/23 games (missed 5x bottom 8 teams).

your best 3 players played EVERY SINGLE GAME
your spiritual leader played 20 GAMES missing 1 game against a decent opponent.
your captain played EVERY GAME.

of your top 10, only 8th placed miochek & 10th placed de goey missed decent chunks. tom mitchell who was coincidentally 'managed' in like rd 5 (that's code for dropped btw).

you're embarrassing yourself.

for fun, let's compare ours.

1. jacob weitering: 21/23 games
2. nic newman: 23/23 games
3. charlie curnow: 20/23 games (recently come to light played hurt since GWS game).
4. adam cerra: 13/23 games
5. patrick cripps: 23/23 games
6. blake acres: 22/23 games
7. sam docherty: 0/23 games
8. adam saad: 17/23 games
9. sam walsh: 19/23 games
10. mitch mcgovern: 17/23 games

no wonder you stretched it to 'best 15'. once again, you're embarassing yourself.

 

[Fadge]

the variables are borderline infinite, that's why it's rubbish to even attempt to create a narrative where collingwoods were the worst, but happy to ridicule yours.

2023 copeland trophy top 10 games played & games missed + opposition

1. josh daicos: 23/23 games
2. nick daicos: 23/23 games
3. brayden maynard: 23/23 games
4. tom mitchell: 6/23 games (played against 4x top 8 teams)
5. scott pendelbury: 20/23 games (missed games v dogs, demons & north lol)
6. isaac quaynor: 23/23 games
7. jack crisp: 23/23 games
8. brody miochek: 11/23 games (missed 6x bottom 8 teams)
9. darcy moore: 23/23 games
10. jordan de joey: 13/23 games (missed 5x bottom 8 teams).

your best 3 players played EVERY SINGLE GAME
your spiritual leader played 20 GAMES missing 1 game against a decent opponent.
your captain played EVERY GAME.

of your top 10, only 8th placed miochek & 10th placed de goey missed decent chunks. tom mitchell who was coincidentally 'managed' in like rd 5 (that's code for dropped btw).

you're embarrassing yourself.

for fun, let's compare ours.

1. jacob weitering: 21/23 games
2. nic newman: 23/23 games
3. charlie curnow: 20/23 games (recently come to light played hurt since GWS game).
4. adam cerra: 13/23 games
5. patrick cripps: 23/23 games
6. blake acres: 22/23 games
7. sam docherty: 0/23 games
8. adam saad: 17/23 games
9. sam walsh: 19/23 games
10. mitch mcgovern: 17/23 games

no wonder you stretched it to 'best 15'. once again, you're embarassing yourself.

So what's your conclusion?

By my reading, based on the top 10 from the respective best and fairests from 2023, Carlton's top 10 missed marginally more games?

So you don't think it's prudent to extend to the next few, where Collingwood has players like Elliott, Cox and McStay - not only clearly in their next rung of players but extremely important structurally....

Hmmm. You're quite brilliant.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

So what's your conclusion?

By my reading, based on the top 10 from the respective best and fairests from 2023, Carlton's top 10 missed marginally more games?

So you don't think it's prudent to extend to the next few, where Collingwood has players like Elliott, Cox and McStay - not only clearly in their next rung of players but extremely important structurally....

Hmmm. You're quite brilliant.

do i count the games cox was dropped as missed games? like mitchell?

 

[adammania9]

Have I got this right that you guys are both fighting for Houston?

Would be a great get for Carlton.

Was never really a fight. Carlton have mismanaged their salary cap and spend their coins on a list that hasn’t gotten close to a premiership. Attempts to free up space by dumping Kennedy and Young were unsuccessful. Houston fell into Collingwood’s lap after Melbourne and Carlton’s poor attempts to lure him over. Carlton have committed to resetting their salary cap by going back to the draft, to have a 10% chance of picking up a player as good as Houston.

 

[HeathySure]

Blah blah blah blah blah blah

I would be babbling too if i was a Carlton supporter

 

[HeathySure]

Have I got this right that you guys are both fighting for Houston?

Would be a great get for Carlton.

it would but obviously if the Pies got him then you would think its a terrible get because you are not biased at all!

 

[Worm4]

Was never really a fight. Carlton have mismanaged their salary cap and spend their coins on a list that hasn’t gotten close to a premiership. Attempts to free up space by dumping Kennedy and Young were unsuccessful. Houston fell into Collingwood’s lap after Melbourne and Carlton’s poor attempts to lure him over. Carlton have committed to resetting their salary cap by going back to the draft, to have a 10% chance of picking up a player as good as Houston.

Am I missing something ?
What was the deal that went down today as I can't find it, anywhere,

 

[Worm4]

I would be babbling too if i was a Carlton supporter

You must be one of those delusionals who think Collingwood had a better year than Carlton

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

What's happening in here? Pies sold their future for Houston and Schultzy Pudding guts?

Boy oh boy the cliff is going to be steep when it arrives for the rotten old pies