Banter Carlton is better in 2024. Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[carlton_99]

But with all the other data available, was Daicos worthy of 5, 2.5 or 0?

Because all the data has him in the top 3 players on the ground.

Your "data" is Brownlow votes and the AFL app votes...?

Once again my opinion is he wasn't in the best five players on the ground.

 

[Fadge]

Who came 2nd to Nick in collingwoods brownlow count again ? Please remind me how far back that player was ( assuming it was around 30 votes)
Big fish , little pond and all....

Are you forgetting Nick's team has contended for the premiership in 2 of his 3 seasons played?

That's 2 more times that Cripps has experienced in his 11 year career for those playing at home...

 

[adammania9]

Voss' assessment isn't absolute. I'm giving my own opinion.

Well that’s exactly what it is - an opinion. If there were no reputable sources that had Nick in the top 3 on the ground, you’d make a great point. Unfortunately it was common belief on the night that Nick was one of the top performers on the ground.

 

[eddiesmith]

Who came 2nd to Nick in collingwoods brownlow count again ? Please remind me how far back that player was ( assuming it was around 30 votes)
Big fish , little pond and all....

 

[Worm4]

Are you forgetting Nick's team has contended for the premiership in 2 of his 3 seasons played?

That's 2 more times that Cripps has experienced in his 11 year career for those playing at home...

That doesn't answer my question . I will wait

 

[Fadge]

Your "data" is Brownlow votes and the AFL app votes...?

Once again my opinion is he wasn't in the best five players on the ground.

Yes. More reputable than 'Carlton_99 from BigFooty'.

Where's your data?

Good to see Brownlow counts are unreliable in this instance, but we're spot on when judging Cripps as the best player in the game this year...

 

[carlton_99]

Well that’s exactly what it is - an opinion. If there were no reputable sources that had Nick in the top 3 on the ground, you’d make a great point. Unfortunately it was common belief on the night that Nick was one of the top performers on the ground.

Yes it is my opinion. When I post I am saying what I think not what others think.

 

[Fadge]

That doesn't answer my question . I will wait

Maybe because all the other regular vote getters were out of the team injured for most of the year...

 

[HeathySure]

Were the coaches "better placed" when McRae gave Daicos 5 votes for his game against us despite not being in the top 5 players on the ground? How many votes did Daicos win the award by again?

Fun fact, Daicos polled in more games in the Brownlow than Cripps did, Kind of backs up the fact that he deserved the coaches award dont you think?

 

[carlton_99]

Yes. More reputable than 'Carlton_99 from BigFooty'.

Where's your data?

Good to see Brownlow counts are unreliable in this instance, but we're spot on when judging Cripps as the best player in the game this year...

Who was best on ground is completely subjective. I don't need data to have an opinion on the best players of that game.

On your second point, I think Cripps and Bontempelli were the two best players in the competition this year and there were 26 votes separating them in the Brownlow. Clearly the Brownlow isn't an accurate measure of who is truly the best player in the game that year. Umpires can't even get basic rules right - you think I trust them to do voting...?

 

[carlton_99]

Fun fact, Daicos polled in more games in the Brownlow than Cripps did, Kind of backs up the fact that he deserved the coaches award dont you think?

When did I say he didn't deserve the award...?

 

[Worm4]

Maybe because all the other regular vote getters were out of the team injured for most of the year...

That doesn't answer my question
- stop looking for excuses.
( hint - the gap was the biggest ever seen in a count in the history of the game)
So are you on record now saying injuries were an excuse for 2024 ?

 

[Worm4]

When did I say he didn't deserve the award...?

He didn't deserve the brownlow.

 

[Fadge]

Who was best on ground is completely subjective. I don't need data to have an opinion on the best players of that game.

Indeed.

But when there is bias at play (either conscious or subconscious), it might pay to refer to what others thought of the game, and you'll find that your 'subjective opinion' is in the minority.

 

[Worm4]

View attachment 2141222

Old news

 

[Fadge]

On your second point, I think Cripps and Bontempelli were the two best players in the competition this year and there were 26 votes separating them in the Brownlow. Clearly the Brownlow isn't an accurate measure of who is truly the best player in the game that year. Umpires can't even get basic rules right - you think I trust them to do voting...?

So no Heeney or Neale?

You don't consider finals performances when doing such an assessment?

So, for 2024:
1. Cripps
2. Bont

What number is Daicos?

Now do the same for 2023.

 

[carlton_99]

So no Heeney or Neale?

You don't consider finals performances when doing such an assessment?

So, for 2024:
1. Cripps
2. Bont

What number is Daicos?

Now do the same for 2023.

2024: Cripps/Bontempelli/Heeney/Daicos/Neale
2023: Bontempelli/Petracca/Greene/Curnow/Butters

Edit: Had Daicos 7th in my top 50 for 2023.

 

[Fadge]

2024: Cripps/Bontempelli/Heeney/Daicos/Neale
2023: Bontempelli/Petracca/Greene/Curnow/Butters

The concerning thing is that you're probably serious...

 

[carlton_99]

The concerning thing is that you're probably serious...

Not sure what you are finding crazy about my rankings.

You ask for my opinion and then laugh. Should I just write what you want to hear?

 

[Fadge]

Not sure what you are finding crazy about my rankings.

You ask for my opinion and then laugh. Should I just write what you want to hear?

So Daicos 7th in 2023, where was Cripps?

 

[carlton_99]

So Daicos 7th in 2023, where was Cripps?

49th

 

[CarmenSandiego]

So what's your conclusion?

By my reading, based on the top 10 from the respective best and fairests from 2023, Carlton's top 10 missed marginally more games?

So you don't think it's prudent to extend to the next few, where Collingwood has players like Elliott, Cox and McStay - not only clearly in their next rung of players but extremely important structurally....

Hmmm. You're quite brilliant.

Had a look.

Hilarious you’re including mason cox, who gets dropped almost every year at some point. But anyway.

Cox: 16/23 games
Elliott: 15/23 games
McStay: 5/23 games.

Given McKay and TDK weren’t included in my top 10 (as I went off previous years BnF results), I’ll do those 2 + the next 3 - just to make it extra fair on you.

McKay: 21/23 games
TDK: 18/23 games
Silvagni: 0/23 games (you included Cox so there’s no way we can’t include Silvagni
J Martin: 3/23 games
M Cottrell: 14/23 games

Once again, we were way worse off.

Should we go the next 3 down the list then?

Embarrassing.

 

[Worm4]

The concerning thing is that you're probably serious...

Why do you think it's imperative that people have the same opinion as yours ?

 

[Fadge]

Had a look.

Hilarious you’re including mason cox, who gets dropped almost every year at some point. But anyway.

Cox: 16/23 games
Elliott: 15/23 games
McStay: 5/23 games.

Given McKay and TDK weren’t included in my top 10 (as I went off previous years BnF results), I’ll do those 2 + the next 3 - just to make it extra fair on you.

McKay: 21/23 games
TDK: 18/23 games
Silvagni: 0/23 games (you included Cox so there’s no way we can’t include Silvagni
J Martin: 3/23 games
M Cottrell: 14/23 games

Once again, we were way worse off.

Should we go the next 3 down the list then?

Embarrassing.

Silvagni, Martin and Cottrell in Carlton's top 15 players...

No wonder you haven't contended for a quarter of a century!

 

[Worm4]

Not sure what you are finding crazy about my rankings.

You ask for my opinion and then laugh. Should I just write what you want to hear?

Be careful - it's at this point where he cuts and pastes his contending post , on a regular basis.