Banter Carlton is better in 2024. Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 3

[carlton_99]

Interesting everyone is saying Collingwood essentially opted out of drafting future players, but actually has a better set of draft picks than Carlton next year:

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This can't be a real post

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Ok. You've got rid of that great prospect. Still, no one's answered my question. Sell me! Which of your youngsters that you've kept or are getting (like Conlon) will be your next stars?

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Our "next stars" are playing for other clubs atm

 

[Fat Jesus]

Pick 3 for Carlton will likely be a gun.
Collingwood never fall off the edge of a cliff.
Contenders often without drafting with low picks.

 

[No SPIN]

Our actions are not based on "desperation". Yours are! Your coach has come out and said it, not in those words, but your club's actions are based around "desperately" winning another flag before your troop of old men fall off the cliff.

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I think you mistake desperation for pragmatism.
Desperation is sitting in the MCG stands for 30 years and stressing over when your team will contend as consistently as Coll.

 

[adammania9]

Interesting comment.

Haynes averages more than Howe in a number of key stats. Kicks, Marks, rebound 50s etc.

Also two years younger.

That's pretty slack analysis. Howe wins out in contested marks, intercept marks, spoils, kicking efficiency, rebound 50's and commits less clangers. This is also despite Howe playing a bit of footy up forward this year

 

[jooce8891]

Just wait and see but if I was you, I would be checking my excitement.

nice fence sitting, cmon spill it or just making up bullshit?

 

[Bale Dup]

Our "next stars" are playing for other clubs atm

Yep. Just as I suspected. NFI.

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[Bale Dup]

I think you mistake desperation for pragmatism.
Desperation is sitting in the MCG stands for 30 years and stressing over when your team will contend as consistently as Coll.

I think you need to look up the word in the dictionary. It's a book.

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[HBFlanker]

That's pretty slack analysis. Howe wins out in contested marks, intercept marks, spoils, kicking efficiency, rebound 50's and commits less clangers. This is also despite Howe playing a bit of footy up forward this year

The statement was that Howe clears Haynes by a mile, which is factually incorrect.

 

[Bale Dup]

nice fence sitting, cmon spill it or just making up bullshit?

They won't because all they do is dance around issues, spill their garbage and deflect from the questions put to them.

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[doppleganger]

"ordinary" - you really don't watch Carlton do you?

Not with blue goggles on.

Saad going backwards, he was no different to Noble in 2024, except Noble is improving and Saad regressing.

You have a 32 year old Newman, expect him to have another top5 finish in the BnF in 2025.

Thankfully, Pies realise the importance ot rebound and scoring from half back so brought in the best HBF in the game.

 

[Bale Dup]

Not with blue goggles on.

Saad going backwards, he was no different to Noble in 2024, except Noble is improving and Saad regressing.

You have a 32 year old Newman, expect him to have another top5 finish in the BnF in 2025.

Thankfully, Pies realise the importance ot rebound and scoring from half back so brought in the best HBF in the game.

With no one to kick it to. Oh sorry. Schultz

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[adammania9]

Still going on about the past

In response to your reply to my initial post.

First off, where did I state that Collingwoods trade additions were to be disregarded? They were the 1st thing I addressed. You got a shiny new upgrade on Noble to Houston and added Perryman.
Is that enough for you to be better than Carlton in 2025? Don't think so. Brings you closer to our level, yes.

Next. Haynes replaced Marchbank. Both fringe. Not best 22 so no real impact there. Where did I mention Haynes would make us better? Didn't.
Shedding depth in the midfield.
What - Kennedy? Oh no! What do we do now we've lost MK. Noooooooooooo.
How about replacing him with a Sid Draper, Jagger Smith, FOS etc. You guys may not know these names. They are a little higher up the draft order than 50 odd.
You guys keep bringing up the 23 flag. We are talking about 2025. At that point it will be 2 years after your flag. Last I saw you were 9th.
"All of Collingwoods youngsters are duds?" Your words.
Tell me. Which of them are not duds? You know your players, yeah? Which of these future stars are going to shine? Is it Jack Bytel. Maybe Ed Allan? Of Ned Long. Soon to be household names across the country.
And it's not just the AFL articles questioning Collingwoods future, it's everyone, except you guys. You are the only ones with your head in the sand about it?
Anyway, proof will be in the pudding.

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Adding Houston and Perryman brings us closer to your level? Cool. We might bridge the gap from 6% to 4%. Onwards and upwards, ay

Unfortunately the likes of Daicos and Sheezel have muddled what is fair expectations for youngsters coming into the AFL. I don't think Kennedy was much chop, but it is probably an 80% chance he would have provided more to your 2025 tilt than the kid you draft at 3.

Speak to any West Australian footy fan, they'll tell you what a player Allan can be with time. His lack of game time is nothing surprising. He was and still is a twig. He will play a long career of AFL, hopefully all with Collingwood. Harvey Harrison can play, McGuane will come in, and the likes of DeMattia, Smit and Jiath all look promising with the benefit of time and opportunities to play games.

Proof will be in the pudding, absolutely. Collingwood will continue to give premierships a hot shake, the club will slowly regenerate its list as it has several times in the past, and the expected drop will never come because the club has continued to add long-term players through trade.

 

[HBFlanker]

Oh - so now it’s just holes in the fwd line. Glad you came to your senses.

The holes arent limited to either end.

Both forward and backlines for Collingwood are a long way from being elite in 2025.

This is what will hold them back.

 

[adammania9]

The statement was that Howe clears Haynes by a mile, which is factually incorrect.

If Haynes was at the same level, he would have been playing consistently at the level.

 

[carlton_99]

Not with blue goggles on.

Saad going backwards, he was no different to Noble in 2024, except Noble is improving and Saad regressing.

You have a 32 year old Newman, expect him to have another top5 finish in the BnF in 2025.

Thankfully, Pies realise the importance ot rebound and scoring from half back so brought in the best HBF in the game.

• Please don't ever compare Noble and Saad again. There is no comparison. Saad is better in all facets of the game especially defensively.
• Newman back to back 2nd places finish in our BNF. But funny how age is an issue for him but not anyone from the Pies.
• We have also integrated Boyd, Cowan and O.Hollands into the 22 who can all develop into that role.

Houston improves every team in the competition but unlike an elite small forward, key defender or outside midfielder it won't improve us significantly enough to justify the cost.

 

[No SPIN]

I think you need to look up the word in the dictionary. It's a book.

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It’s where pragmatism is located - but understand not knowing the alphabet makes it difficult for you to look it up.

 

[No SPIN]

With no one to kick it to. Oh sorry. Schultz

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Makes it even more embarrassing that you lost to us twice.

 

[carlton_99]

If Haynes was at the same level, he would have been playing consistently at the level.

You know full well this is a false equivalence.

Giants back 4 is Buckley, Taylor, Himmelberg and Idun - the best back 4 in the game. Very tough to break into.

Who exactly is going to keep Howe out of the team at that level? You have Moore and Quaynor as your only real locks for tall/mid-sized defenders. Howe is competing with the likes of Dean and Frampton.

 

[doppleganger]

With no one to kick it to. Oh sorry. Schultz

Houston will just bang through goals himself on the run from outside 50.

Pies also value having a spread of goal kickers, and mids who can hurt...unlike Carlton who just rely on Harry and Charlie (who goes missing in finals).

 

[Fadge]

nice fence sitting, cmon spill it or just making up bullshit?

It's clearly something that's not appropriate for going into detail in an online forum.

Give it a rest.

 

[Bale Dup]

Sorry. Forgot to quote .Responding to Addamania9.

Your first paragraph is correct.
Do you think that the modern youngsters being drafted are better prepared these days for the AFL jump? I do. They are conditioned better prior to being drafted so yes I do believe the right high draft pick can come in and have immediate impact.
Your last paragraph is just speculation.

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[carlton_99]

It's clearly something that's not appropriate for going into detail in an online forum.

Give it a rest.

Think the person making stupid insinuations about a 16 year old on a public forum should give it a rest

 

[doppleganger]

• Please don't ever compare Noble and Saad again. There is no comparison. Saad is better in all facets of the game especially defensively.
• Newman back to back 2nd places finish in our BNF. But funny how age is an issue for him but not anyone from the Pies.
• We have also integrated Boyd, Cowan and O.Hollands into the 22 who can all develop into that role.

Houston improves every team in the competition but unlike an elite small forward, key defender or outside midfielder it won't improve us significantly enough to justify the cost.

Boyd, Cowan, O.Hollands, a declining Saad and a 32 year old Newman - ordinary bang on!

 

[adammania9]

The holes arent limited to either end.

Both forward and backlines for Collingwood are a long way from being elite in 2025.

This is what will hold them back.

Collingwood's forwards ranked #1 for scores per entry in the league this year, despite frequent injuries to that group. Would suggest the group is one of the best forward lines in the league. Getting it there was an issue - adding a top 3 playmaking half back in the game helps, as does more games from De Goey and Mitchell who is still a top first possession winner.

Back line needs to regroup and significantly improve defensively, particularly Moore and Q who had down years in their primes. The Pies conceded the =6th most points in the league (Carlton 4th most) but are adding Houston who defensively is better than Noble, and Perryman who is accountable and will split between half-back and midfield.