Preview Changes and Discussion - Round 8 - Hawthorn v St Kilda

[macdaddio]

There are certain players playing easy relaxed football while the kids are running and trying very hard each week.
If Clarko has guts he would drop one of those players that is playing easy relaxed footy to make a statement because we do have good talented kids playing for Boxhill.
Bourgoyne needs to get back to his form that made us give up a good pick for him, yes he is a very talented and top A grade afl player, but he isn't playing like he is a top A grade afl player and he is supose to have had a great preseason.
Hodge is carrying a injury so he is forgiven, Ladson, Young, Birchall, Ellis are also in danger of losing their spots if these kids that get picked continue to play good afl footy..

 

[Prudster]

I don't get the hate on Burgoyne. Banish Scott Pendlebury to the forward line and watch him struggle as well. Clarko needs to pull his finger out and start playing players in correct position. If there are too many midfielders in the team, drop some and play actual forwards.

 

[Scrads]

Go and watch his second efforts....no need there was none, hanging off the pack waiting for easy touches...second to the ball every time...

Out: Ellis, Murphy
In: Rioli, Hale

Did you watch the game ? Murphy was a very important part of our defence. He saved many goals off his own back and can only think of one he didnt stop (when he gave away a free).

 

[xXDaOne2KillXx]

There are certain players playing easy relaxed football while the kids are running and trying very hard each week.
If Clarko has guts he would drop one of those players that is playing easy relaxed footy to make a statement because we do have good talented kids playing for Boxhill.
Bourgoyne needs to get back to his form that made us give up a good pick for him, yes he is a very talented and top A grade afl player, but he isn't playing like he is a top A grade afl player and he is supose to have had a great preseason.
Hodge is carrying a injury so he is forgiven, Ladson, Young, Birchall, Ellis are also in danger of losing their spots if these kids that get picked continue to play good afl footy..

Well how about playing Burgoyne in the middle or as an onballer!!! 16 possies and 75% of game time in the forwardline...not bad, the fact some of those few disposals were poor highlighted he had a weak game, otherwise 20 odd disposals is usually plenty for Shaun to influence the contest...of those 16 he had, 2 were behinds...so he made some uncharacteristic mistakes and missed some shots on goal...

Personally i would play him on ball as much as he can, than rest him forward when is tired (not start him forward)...great player, slightly out of touch, playing the wrong role...but what other forwards do we have...will come good starting next week

Same as above for Lewis...but thats what you get when u load ur side up with similar players...and some are more flexible than others. 2 more bad games than i reckon u can look at dropping him 2 get him 2 wake up...otherwise a classy player...Who hates...i repeat HATES going back to play at AAMI stadium...check out his stats from games at AAMI...he cops so much over there it obviously effects him but is too classy 2 show it

 

[xXDaOne2KillXx]

As for changes...


Birchall needs to go out...and probably happy for him to not return...unless injuries occur...i really really dislike his game and therefore him as a player. Young, well similar to above rather than for Birchall...i would like Shoe to come in when his ready...and i would like Hodge played forward of the middle if he cant play in the middle or is being tagged by a player who is dangerous themselves when Hodge is in the backline.

So for me...In Cyril, (Suckling, Shoe...when ready)
Out Birchall, Ellis, and...WhiteX (eventually) give him some games 1st

 

[AudiR8dreamer]

Don't see 4 changes coming off a road win, but:

In: Rioli, Suckling, Osborne, Hale
Out: Birchall, Whitecross, Ladson, Ellis

Birchall was awful, coming off a very mediocre year so far. How he has avoided the selectors' knife so far I don't know. But he has to go back to the 2's. Whitecross was given his chance and looked uncomfortable and out of place . . . but then that's how he seems to come across to me each time he plays, so big question over him staying on the list. Ladson has had a couple good shows in patches this season, but too inconsistent for too long and was terrible against Port, so he too has to earn his spot and go back to the 2's. The there's Ellis. I agree with many who are not impressed by him. Yeah he keeps his cool fairly well, but helps the opposition more than our team. Apparently he can kick the ball 50-60 metres, but you'd never think he could kick longer than 30, because that's about all he does. Not an impact player. Not a good defender. Not fast. Not strong. So even if he can read the play great all day long, if he can't do anything with the ball to make things happen and be a weapon/play maker, then he is of no use.

Tom Murphy struggled early but settled down. He atleast gives it 100%, even when he stuffs things up. He did enough to deserve another game.

Jordan Lewis -- on notice. He has not improved since 2008 and all the excuses I've read on this forum are no longer valid -- he's had plenty of time and opportunities. He plays his best in the middle, not defending a defender.

 

[Brown n Gold]

Lewis leads the AFL for goal assists those suggesting he should be dropped need to get a clue. His role has changed from his inside mid / wing days accept it... he is not going to pickup 30+ touches anymore.

Reading this thread I would hate to think what all of you would have been saying if we had lost by 30 points????

I repeat, the only changes this week will be forced i.e. Renouf's hammy or no brainers i.e. Cyril back...

So lets try and keep the toys in the cot for the next 6 days.... Sometimes I think most of you lot would be better supporting the Melbourne Victory... Soccer is for precious sooky supporters.

 

[lickmerocks]

At the monent Birch will not be dropped because he is 190 odd cms and Gibbo and Gilham are punching above there weight each week as it is.

Gibbo at 189 cms is a brilliant competitor. he beat Westhoff numerous times int he air who stands at 200 cms with inspector gadget arms.

If Schoey can develop Birch then gets a different role. We drafted him as a running half back flanker to replace Nathan Lonie so its unfair to expect him to start playing like Ben Rutten.

Whatever happens we need a big strong body defender so our defenders get a fair chance at playing on someone they actually should be standing beside.

 

[mickmaster]

Popie plays taller than Birch.

 

[Goody1971]

INS; Rioli, Suckling
OUTS; Ladson, Ellis

If Renouf needs a rest, Hale in

Murphy needs to stay in to stop Milne and/or Schneider

Whitecross wasn't great but needs a few games in a row if he's ever gonna make it.

Birchall on thin ice, Burgoyne needs to step up big time.

Would like to see Bateman as Sub this week.

Savage, Shiels, Smith, Puopolo all deserve to stay in the side.

 

[Dockers68]

In : Rioli Suckling lisle
Out : Birchall whitex Young

??

 

[WWSD]

Paul Johnson (Foot) is listed on the HFC Website as 1-2 weeks away. He is a talented ruckmen who has had a lot of injuries during his career. I Believe he can have more of an impact then Skipper. Johnson can play CHF & CHB so he a lot more versatile. In fact Johnson has more talent the Hale i believe.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Paul Johnson (Foot) is listed on the HFC Website as 1-2 weeks away. He is a talented ruckmen who has had a lot of injuries during his career. I Believe he can have more of an impact then Skipper. Johnson can play CHF & CHB so he a lot more versatile. In fact Johnson has more talent the Hale i believe.

Nice to see you PJ.

 

[Dockers68]

Paul Johnson (Foot) is listed on the HFC Website as 1-2 weeks away. He is a talented ruckmen who has had a lot of injuries during his career. I Believe he can have more of an impact then Skipper. Johnson can play CHF & CHB so he a lot more versatile. In fact Johnson has more talent the Hale i believe.

Also agree buddylebo got excited during pre season when the hawks picked up johnson but havent heard anything since?

 

[Hawksgirl4eva]

INS:
Rioli
Lisle
Suckling


Out
WX
Ellis
Ladson

 

[kirbatron]

All those saying Young should be omitted are off their heads.

we are crying out for more run & carry, his form will pick up but just because smith had a good game does not mean we have the luxury of dropping young.

 

[randall boner]

in cyril and suckers
out birch laddo or whitex

 

[mrcurly]

While i loved Smiths first game it was hardly the acid test playing Port. Regardless of that i can see some great potential in that kid, has the acceleration and goal kicking ability of Kevin Ablett - hopefully with a better attitude. Beyond that, he may force a rethink of the gameplan, his (and Savage's) attributes make the quick break from the middle and deep kick into the forward line very much a reality. Unlike some of the other more pedestrian mids we have used for a few years.

I agree with most of the posts on players under scrutiny, as far as I can see there should be 4 or 5 under the microscope.

Dropping Burgoyne is an over reaction, the man is a smart, quality footballer having a quiet patch - i can see better options. Firstly, why play a semi fit Hodge across HB when you have Burgoyne cooling his heels at HF? Burgoyne across HB mid season 2010 was one of the main reasons for our form turnaround. Put him on a back flank, Hodge to HF or a pocket until he can regain form/fitness, and see what happens, certainly would not lose anything. Can always rotate them if required.

Lewis i would prefer to see on-ball or around the middle where he can use his strength and mongrel to win the ball, its fine to negate a talented HB but as a goal sneak he doesnt have the ability to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard.

Also, leave Murphy in the side for a few more weeks, i thought his game got better as the Port game progressed, he is a much better defender than some here give him credit for. He took a long time to find his feet at senior level, and i admit he was pretty flaky at times, but check out his performances in the last 7 or 8 games last year - very solid. And to put it bluntly - there are no better options atm.

Whitecross did nothing much, apart from a lovely snap for goal, but if there is going to be a passenger i would rather it was a young player that could potentially improve. I think his confidence will be shot if he gets dumped after 1 game - so he should be given a reprieve.

So unless there are any injuries, the only outs i would think are Ellis, Ladson, and possibly Birchall against the Saints. Young is obviously having a bad patch of form, perhaps he could be given the sub position this round if he has any fitness issues. Perhaps the sub position could be looked at as the purgatory for underperformers.. the 'rocket' position.

BTW - I checked the stats for the Port game, does anybody else think they actually reflect who are the best players?
Seems to me to be a whole lot of cheap kicks/marks inflating some players, and depreciating others.
So IMO stats and kicking efficiency always loses to contribution to attack/defense, and being creative when you have the ball. Case in point is Cyril, his stats usually don't look great, but his impact on the game is invariably huge.

 

[The Kipster]

Did you watch the game ? Murphy was a very important part of our defence. He saved many goals off his own back and can only think of one he didnt stop (when he gave away a free).

Scrads, no second and third efforts was what I reffered to and the fact that he waited outside packs looking for an easy get...he is not the answer in my view...

some people are saying drop Youngy...if thats the case then sack Clarko because Youngy is starting to look at chipping the ball around in our stupid game plan...

The simple plan is when Youngy gets the ball make sure he roosts it 50M forward and make sure we have forward to contest a mark and a crumber at the feet....

but no we would rather have everyone up the ground with sfa to go to...

 

[HolyRioli]

I quite liked Roughead as the second ruck on the weekend. Offered a lot at the contest once the ball had split and is a far more mobile, damaging player around the ground. The question remains how sustainable is this? However, if Roughead is to play up the ground, I would like to see another demanding target in the forward 50. Thusly, I propose something along these lines:

In: Rioli, Suckling
Out: Ladson, Whitecross

Maybe a little stiff on Ladson and Whitecross, as they didn't do a whole lot wrong. However, they didn't do a whole lot at all, and I think it's getting to the point where the players have to be playing for keeps to get a game.


Roughead - Hodge - Rioli
Bateman - Franklin - Burgoyne
Savage - Sewell - Young
Birchall - Gibson - Suckling
Guerra - Gilham - Murphy

Renouf - Shiels - Mitchell

Smith - Puopolo - Lewis + Ellis


Hodge, Bateman, Burgoyne and Rioli can all rotate with bursts through the midfield, but essentially providing options forward of centre. Hodge especially is a strong mark, and playing in the forward line puts a dangerous player, in a dangerous spot, who will bring intensity around the contest in the forward 50, something which he haven't seen enough of. Also gives him the opportunity to nurse his achilles to health. Bateman to play as a defensive forward, while running hard off his man to expose him when we have the ball.

Gibson will more than likely get the job on Reiwoldt, Murphy to Milne. Gilham to take whichever spud they send to full-forward.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

In: Rioli, Hale

Out: Whitecross, Murphy

FB: Puopolo - Roughead - Gilham
HB: Birchall - Gibson - Hodge
Ce: Savage - Mitchell - Bateman
HF: Lewis - Franklin - Smith
FF: Rioli - Hale - Burgoyne

Ru: Renouf
RR: Sewell
Ro: Shiels

I/C: Ellis, Guerra, Young + Ladson

 

[whiteTiga2k]

I do feel Suckling Deserves his spot in our starting 21!

In: Suckers and Cyril... and mayb Shoey

Out: WhiteX and Ellis... and if shoey is in.. murph is out

I know Murph did ok last week... but we really need to try Schoey out again as the THIRD TALL!!! he may gain a lot of confidence playing this roll and it may help his grow as a defender. We will not be able to compete without a bigger taller back... give shoey the chance now.

Ellis... I stopped rating him after mid 2009... and WhiteX didn't take his chance

Cyril is a no brainer... and Suckers has definitely earned his spot in our team


FB: Guerra Gibson Shoey/Murphy
HB: Suckers Gilham Puopolo
CC: Savage Mitchell Young
HF: Rioli Franklin Lewis
FF: Hodge Roughead Bateman
RUCKS: Renouf Burgoyne Sewell

Int: Smith Shiels Birchall Sub-Ladson

 

[Hawk43]

I had doubts on suckers to stand up when we were down, thinking that he was more of a front-runner. He has proved that completely wrong this year and showed that when he chased down menzel (?) 2 weeks ago when he looked beaten. Really missed his kickouts against port too.

This year the sub seems to be the first player to be dropped the next week, you couldn't drop savage on that though, should never have been the sub

In: Cyril, Suckling
Out: Whitex, goo

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

All those saying Young should be omitted are off their heads.

we are crying out for more run & carry, his form will pick up but just because smith had a good game does not mean we have the luxury of dropping young.

How long do you give these blokes to turn it around?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

In : Rioli Suckling lisle
Out : Birchall whitex Young

??

Talk about getting your alias's mixed up.

An Essendon supporter, named 'Dockers' posting in the Hawthorn team thread.


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