Changes Required

[SweatOnMySkin]

I dont think we need to get rid of Ballarat to get more games at the MCG. We just need to push to get those games too. We play plenty of MCG tenants throughout the year, we should play them at the G when they're the home side, at least a portion of the time. If we proposed playing an extra 3 away games at the G against their tenants that would 100% be backed up by those bigger clubs who have more sway than we do and their entitled MCC members.

That's the path of least resistance to getting more games there, to get collingwood, carlton etc on our side with it. If that takes off and if our crowds grow then we'll have ana rgument for pushing for co-tenancy but that would be way down the track from where we are now

 

[lachy]

We're not giving up Ballarat in favour of MCG home games. Neither the AFL or the club would agree to that. It's fanciful.

I can't see why we can't lobby the AFL to have a minimum of 3 (or maybe 4) away games at the G though. 3 is readily achievable with this year's fixture simply by having Collingwood host us at their own home ground rather than Marvel.

Given the Ballarat council is balking at what they commit to the venture and no decision will be made till year end. In their local paper they are having a review at the value of their share, which as set out in the article is under $500,000 per annum, and the top ups from the State Government is definitely under review, Ballarat may not even be a viable option.

So not as fanciful as you may believe

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[lachy]

It’ll be months before we know if the Western Bulldogs will continue to play in Ballarat beyond 2024

September 2, 2024 4:02 pm in

Local News

by Brett Macdonald



We’ll have to wait until the end of the year until we find out whether the Western Bulldogs will continue to play in Ballarat.

The current deal, which has cost the city council almost $1.4 million over three years, expires after Octobers AFLW game.

It includes two AFL and just a single AFLW game each


City of Ballarat CEO Evan Kings says negotiations are ongoing especially around cost and value for ratepayers.

“Part of the negotiation at the moment is trying to determine what is fair and equitable.”

“They are ratepayers funds, and I have got to be able to demonstrate to the councillors that there is the right return on investment for those funds,” Mr. King said

The Western Bulldogs AFLW side will play St Kilda at Mars Stadium on October 27.



On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BIG_BONTS]

It’ll be months before we know if the Western Bulldogs will continue to play in Ballarat beyond 2024

September 2, 2024 4:02 pm in

Local News

by Brett Macdonald



We’ll have to wait until the end of the year until we find out whether the Western Bulldogs will continue to play in Ballarat.

The current deal, which has cost the city council almost $1.4 million over three years, expires after Octobers AFLW game.

It includes two AFL and just a single AFLW game each


City of Ballarat CEO Evan Kings says negotiations are ongoing especially around cost and value for ratepayers.

“Part of the negotiation at the moment is trying to determine what is fair and equitable.”

“They are ratepayers funds, and I have got to be able to demonstrate to the councillors that there is the right return on investment for those funds,” Mr. King said

The Western Bulldogs AFLW side will play St Kilda at Mars Stadium on October 27.



On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

I love my football as much as the next human on here but why are ratepayers subsidising this? 1.4M should be going to higher priority issues than getting AFL games in Ballarat

 

[SweatOnMySkin]

I love my football as much as the next human on here but why are ratepayers subsidising this? 1.4M should be going to higher priority issues than getting AFL games in Ballarat

there's economic benefit to the City of Ballarat and it's businesses in having AFL games there. how that all balances out from spend vs income or increased tourism is for the beancounters. But it's not just setting fire to money for them

this is from a few years ago.

Strong value in Western Bulldogs partnership | City of Ballarat

www.ballarat.vic.gov.au

 

[Dogs 13]

I understanding wanting more away games and replacement games at the MCG, but WHY would we want some of OUR home games there?

It’s a distance too far for the vast majority of our supporters to be a regular occasion, myself included, we would likely be outnumbered as a result if it is a big game vs say Collingwood, who would have half the stadium to themselves anyway in the AFL and MCC reserves, and I highly doubt it is more financially beneficial than the current arrangement.

What, MCG is a distance too far for the vast majority of our supporters ?

 

[TommyD13]

Would love to have no more games in Ballarat. As much as anyone I would prefer more games at the MCG, but also more home games at Marvel can’t hurt so we can hammer home our home ground advantage.

 

[Libba39]

To improve you must constantly change and evolve. My thoughts....

Firstly, we need 3 home games at the MCG. Along with a couple of away games as least this gives us 5 games a year there. Do not sign another contract with Ballarat, small minded thinking and has to stop if we want to be a successful club. 8 at Marvel and 3 at the MCG. The MCG games need to be promoted heavily and we aim for 80k each game. The atmosphere was fantastic and we need more of it. These games attract players to your club. We need to be a destination club, we currently are not.

Transition some players who have been good for us yet in this modern, cover the ground with run and pace they are now surplus. Macrae and Daniel, thankyou but the game has changed. Only as back up Duryea and Libba. We need to start the on-ball transition and Libba although a warrior is tied. He can be used next year but after others.

Onball – Bont, Richards are locks. Bring is Sanders for the Libba in and under role. Bring in Freijah to work in tandem with Treloar. Recruit or trade for another on-baller. The modern onballer need to be fitness freaks, like what Sydney has, guys that can run all day up and back at pace. I also expect Darcy to ruck more than he currently does.

Forward – Our game is old-school. Lock it in and score from stoppage. Very safe but get burnt against the best sides. Only need two of Darcy/English (I expect 50/50 next year) and Naughts and JUH. One of Naughts and JUH should spend a pre-season playing defence. It would give us flexibility for them to play either end pending match up. A true swingman. Weightman plays as a 3rd tall anyway.

Next we need a couple of genuine quick goal sneaks. We don’t have one, we have makeshift small forwards.

Defense, as above, stick with Lobb and build another key back in JUH or Naughts. Give Jones the easier intercept role next year. Need another running, classly defender.

Finally get off to a better start, too many times we can charging for the 8 too late.

We are not too far away (its a tough comp) yet hawthorn show what change and youth can do in 1 season.

Sorry but just because there were 97k there the other night doesn't mean we're going to pull 80k crowds to the G during the season. It simply won't happen and you can take it to the bank.

We can't even get a regular 40k turning up to Marvel, let alone 80k to the G.
Even after winning a flag our fans are generally pathetic at attending games.

Of the 97k there on Friday I'd say there were 7k neutrals, 55k hawks and 35k dogs (and I reckon that is being generous).

In short, lets just get our own house in order before we start worrying about venue-hopping.

On SM-A505YN using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sentinel]

Given the Ballarat council is balking at what they commit to the venture and no decision will be made till year end. In their local paper they are having a review at the value of their share, which as set out in the article is under $500,000 per annum, and the top ups from the State Government is definitely under review, Ballarat may not even be a viable option.

So not as fanciful as you may believe

On SM-S926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Ballarat council might end the agreement. Unless that happens, we won't by choice any time soon, and the AFL certainly aren't going to give us 2 games at the MCG as replacement if it does end.

 

[perro_loco]

We need new banner makers. Contrast between Hawks and Dogs banners Friday night was as stark as Meek vs English. I’m actually being serious, it was embarrassing.

Agreed. It was shait

 

[Lex22]

We should be looking to swap our Marvel home games against Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton to the MCG, not swapping Ballarat games.

This.

Campaign to play bigger clubs and/or MCG tenants at the MCG.

I’m okay losing any benefit that Marvel has vs Collingwood, Richmond, Melbourne etc. If we can’t host finals there then it isn’t really an advantage anyway.

We could easily have 5-6 MCG games a season with simple fixturing in this regard.

It’s a win/win for all clubs involved.

 

[Dogs Rule]

We need new banner makers. Contrast between Hawks and Dogs banners Friday night was as stark as Meek vs English. I’m actually being serious, it was embarrassing.

There 'Our House' tag just rubbed it in as to have much we had been shafted despite being the higher place team and winning a 'home ground' advantage. May as well have finished 7th after the H&A.

 

[LondonBulldog]

Sorry but just because there were 97k there the other night doesn't mean we're going to pull 80k crowds to the G during the season. It simply won't happen and you can take it to the bank.

We can't even get a regular 40k turning up to Marvel, let alone 80k to the G.
Even after winning a flag our fans are generally pathetic at attending games.

Of the 97k there on Friday I'd say there were 7k neutrals, 55k hawks and 35k dogs (and I reckon that is being generous).

In short, lets just get our own house in order before we start worrying about venue-hopping.

On SM-A505YN using BigFooty.com mobile app

This way I've thinking gets you no-where and will keep us as a minnow.

Imagine two or three home game against Pies / Dons / Carlton or whoever is flying at the time, like Hawthorn. 25k Dogs fans, 25k away fans, 10k MCG and 10k AFL fans, there is 70k fans.

MCG is where the finals and Grand Final are played, we simply need more exposure. It helps in so many ways, players want big games, they want the exposure, sponsors, coteries groups. We need to think bigger as a club. I loved the atmosphere of friday night and want more of it.

We really missed a boat as a club when we dropped the Ballarat replacement games. These should have been big marketed games as the MCG. If we don't act now and get some more MCG games other clubs will take them. St Kilda, Essendon and Carlton are already requesting more "home" MCG games. Why we are making finals is our best chance to argue the push.

 

[lachy]

Ballarat council might end the agreement. Unless that happens, we won't by choice any time soon, and the AFL certainly aren't going to give us 2 games at the MCG as replacement if it does end.

No one is going to give us anything. We need to want to, plan and negotiate. Given there is agitation by a number of clubs to play more at the G maybe we can offer the AFL some solutions. The Saints have managed too

One thing is clear and for Dogwatch here is evidence the agreement with Ballarat is less than $500,000 per year not the million plus quoted in this or other threads arguing the benefits of the Ballarat Deal.

The kick backs were from the State Government including the development at the Whitten oval. These are all done now and in case people have not noticed our State is not flush with excess funds

 

[lachy]

This way I've thinking gets you no-where and will keep us as a minnow.

Imagine two or three home game against Pies / Dons / Carlton or whoever is flying at the time, like Hawthorn. 25k Dogs fans, 25k away fans, 10k MCG and 10k AFL fans, there is 70k fans.

MCG is where the finals and Grand Final are played, we simply need more exposure. It helps in so many ways, players want big games, they want the exposure, sponsors, coteries groups. We need to think bigger as a club. I loved the atmosphere of friday night and want more of it.

We really missed a boat as a club when we dropped the Ballarat replacement games. These should have been big marketed games as the MCG. If we don't act now and get some more MCG games other clubs will take them. St Kilda, Essendon and Carlton are already requesting more "home" MCG games. Why we are making finals is our best chance to argue the push.

We dropped the replacement games as there was no benefit to the home clubs for whom the games were replaced and they complained to the AFL, particularly those at Marvel.

Being a bigger ground the Hawks were able to negotiate a much better deal at the G for their replacement games and the AFL owed them selling off Waverley after getting them to move there.

The Pies also had a deal where their members had reserved seats at away games at the G which is now being re negotiated after complaints from Richmond, Hawthorn and Essendon

 

[Freshwater]

We need a Sicily and Newcombe type. We had Boyd, Morris, Picken. We have Libba but he is getting esoteric now with some of his onfield actions. I reckon Garcia and West were potentially, but for reasons beyond my understanding of football didn’t make the final team. I’d have them in for sure and reward those types of players.

 

[lachy]

We need a Sicily and Newcombe type. We had Boyd, Morris, Picken. We have Libba but he is getting esoteric now with some of his onfield actions. I reckon Garcia and West were potentially, but for reasons beyond my understanding of football didn’t make the final team. I’d have them in for sure and reward those types of players.

Could Freijah be the Newcombe type? Sanders as his body develops?

Buss be the Sicily type?

Us improving to be a top 4 side requires development of 6 to 8 of our players on the list with very few dropping off

 

[Sentinel]

No one is going to give us anything. We need to want to, plan and negotiate. Given there is agitation by a number of clubs to play more at the G maybe we can offer the AFL some solutions. The Saints have managed too

One thing is clear and for Dogwatch here is evidence the agreement with Ballarat is less than $500,000 per year not the million plus quoted in this or other threads arguing the benefits of the Ballarat Deal.

The kick backs were from the State Government including the development at the Whitten oval. These are all done now and in case people have not noticed our State is not flush with excess funds

We can plan and negotiate all we like but we're not going to get regular home games at the MCG whilst Carlton and Essendon, and even Collingwood, are playing home games at Marvel.

St Kilda have managed to negotiate a home game at the MCG the last 2 years (one of which was for a 150 year anniversary game, the other for their 'Spuds game'). They still have only 2 games at the MCG per year like we do (and I highly doubt they've made more money on those MCG home games than we do in Ballarat).

I'm not suggesting the Ballarat deal is perfect but as stated I think we're better off arguing for minimum 3+ games at the MCG (likely meaning an extra away game or two - including playing Collingwood's home game there against us rather than at Marvel), and at the same time holding onto Ballarat if we can for the financial aspect.

 

[lachy]

We can plan and negotiate all we like but we're not going to get regular home games at the MCG whilst Carlton and Essendon, and even Collingwood, are playing home games at Marvel.

St Kilda have managed to negotiate a home game at the MCG the last 2 years (one of which was for a 150 year anniversary game, the other for their 'Spuds game'). They still have only 2 games at the MCG per year like we do (and I highly doubt they've made more money on those MCG home games than we do in Ballarat).

I'm not suggesting the Ballarat deal is perfect but as stated I think we're better off arguing for minimum 3+ away games at the MCG (including playing Collingwood's home game there against us rather than at Marvel), and at the same time holding onto Ballarat if we can for the financial aspect.

We are never going to if we just give up.

It may be that we assist the AFL in playing all 11 home games at Marvel on the proviso our away games against any of the MCG tenants are at the MCG and get better terms on how much clear space we get at Marvel home games. (Ie for corporates, advertising and Merch etc) as well as reserved seating.

The financial aspect at Ballarat is no where near the benefit it was when we first agreed, nor when we resigned, and yes some of that information has been provided so I am not sure why so many of our supporters are still fixated on that. It is less than 2% of our revenue and the entire landscape has changed since covid and Essendons golden ticket lease being up.

 

[Prince Imperial]

One thing is clear and for Dogwatch here is evidence the agreement with Ballarat is less than $500,000 per year not the million plus quoted in this or other threads arguing the benefits of the Ballarat Deal.

The kick backs were from the State Government including the development at the Whitten oval. These are all done now and in case people have not noticed our State is not flush with excess funds

Visit Victoria are a premier partner of the club which includes ground signage at Mars Stadium. It is untrue to suggest that the state government has not been sponsoring the Ballarat matches and we have only been receiving monies from the council.

Despite the state's finances, the state government is committed to building two new stands seating 5000 patrons at Mars having previously spent significant amounts on the venue. They would look pretty stupid doing that and not securing AFL matches for the venue.

It's being left quite late but like trade week I strongly suspect a deal will be done with the two governments that will extend the arrangement.

 

[dogwatch]

...

One thing is clear and for Dogwatch here is evidence the agreement with Ballarat is less than $500,000 per year not the million plus quoted in this or other threads arguing the benefits of the Ballarat Deal.

The kick backs were from the State Government including the development at the Whitten oval. These are all done now and in case people have not noticed our State is not flush with excess funds

Well that's the least controversial one. I think we all accepted that it was about $1m a year so it's nice to have it confirmed. The crucial ones are the break even points for games at the MCG and Docklands. I'm not sure that info is even in the public domain but if it is, it'd be nice to know what they are.

Anyway, can we take all this back to the Ballarat thread where it belongs?

 

[lachy]

Well that's the least controversial one. I think we all accepted that it was about $1m a year so it's nice to have it confirmed. The crucial ones are the break even points for games at the MCG and Docklands. I'm not sure that info is even in the public domain but if it is, it'd be nice to know what they are.

Anyway, can we take all this back to the Ballarat thread where it belongs?

Its a great question dogwatch but it would never be in the public domain and would be different for every club via confidential agreements.

Issues negotiated for ground like the MCG and Marvel include advertising space, corporate space, reserved seating, seating areas for members and the general public, merchandise etc and each club has different deals. The MCG for example has the MCC, AFL Members area, direct sponsors and merchandisers already in place.

The reason why Docklands was so poor originally was the owners had one set of deals in place and the venue operators had another lot of deals in place leaving not much for clubs other than Essendon that negotiated a massive deal to move away from the MCG inclusive of merchandise at most events certainly not just Essendon home games.

It is why in the article I posted the other tenant clubs were millions of dollars better off when the AFL purchased the stadium, removing all agreements the owners had in place late 2016, and again in 2019 when the AFL took over operations of the ground.

Depending on the agreement of different clubs break even is now somewhere between 15,000 to 20,000 whereas at the MCG it is between 50,000 to 60,000

 

[lachy]

Visit Victoria are a premier partner of the club which includes ground signage at Mars Stadium. It is untrue to suggest that the state government has not been sponsoring the Ballarat matches and we have only been receiving monies from the council.

Despite the state's finances, the state government is committed to building two new stands seating 5000 patrons at Mars having previously spent significant amounts on the venue. They would look pretty stupid doing that and not securing AFL matches for the venue.

It's being left quite late but like trade week I strongly suspect a deal will be done with the two governments that will extend the arrangement.

Where have I said they State Government have not been supporting the Ballarat matches? I have multiple times noted they have been the main supporters of the games.

For political reasons yes they may look stupid for committing to build the new stands, but they also committed to the Commonwealth Games until the financial reality kicked in. Also, the local council is also not flush with funds with a fair amount of kick back. The reality is the financial benefits of playing there will be significantly lesser for the clubs going forward

 

[Unorth]

What I want, but know won’t happen: New ruck, new coach

What I want that probably won’t happen: experienced, regarded forward coach that isn’t a complete Nepo hire. A Pratt for our forwards

May happen: Active trade period to try and fix up a couple of glaring holes in an otherwise solid list

 

[Prince Imperial]

Where have I said they State Government have not been supporting the Ballarat matches? I have multiple times noted they have been the main supporters of the games.

For political reasons yes they may look stupid for committing to build the new stands, but they also committed to the Commonwealth Games until the financial reality kicked in. Also, the local council is also not flush with funds with a fair amount of kick back. The reality is the financial benefits of playing there will be significantly lesser for the clubs going forward

In response to a poster talking about the $1m+ benefit to the club you simply referred to the City of Ballarat component.

If we are low balled by both governments, we should be prepared to walk away. It will have to happen soon though as the club will be shortly selling memberships, corporate packages and the like for 2025.