Chris Judd...overrated and hyped once again

[Bollox]

Bear with me on a long voyage.
I noticed another lovestruck journo has just rated Juddy #2 ranked overall player in the competition. I'm still baffled how the bloke basis his 2007 and 2008 seasons can even be ranked top 5..let alone in the top 10. Certainly was a time he was deserving #1 at the weagles but arnt these supposed rankings meant to be kept up to date and based on fact not fiction ?..should they be based on performance rather than what must be some sort of vibe ? Even in his own role as a midfielder he's well behind others over the last 2 yrs.

I'm sure i'll get yelled at by the usual lovestruck crew and irrelevant club bias for even suggesting it ..but i'll challenge anyone to show me that over the last 2 yrs Chris Judd has been EVEN A TOP 3 MIDFIELDER...so how the hell can he even be close to a top 3 overall ranked player in the game ?

Come AA time last yr the bloke wasnt even a shoe in for a midfield slot..possible/likely but somehow he makes it ahead of others in the run on team and stunningly wins the CAPTAINCY of the AA team ...basis what ?..certainly cant be captaincy performance or results can it ?..vibe perhaps ?

Bear in mind the players (and most others) went with Tom Harley as the best captain for 2008 and he was available in the AA team...and his mob made the GF...and u can also see another candidate in the following comparison.

Midseason round 12.....End of season
Carlton 8th.................Saints 4th
Saints 10th................Carlton 11th

So whats important in a captain ?..how many eco-friendly dunny rolls visyboard packages up ?...or whether a captain helps drag his team into contention on the back of his own performances ?...shall we also dispense with Tom Harley simply coz he's got a vgood team around him ?

Now i'm no Arrocca type genius but i went to school and can count...but no matter how hard i try i cannot figure out what criteria they select the AA captaincy unless its purely on hype or vibe or christ knows what. Is it a gift or a reward for something i dont know about ?

Now bear with me on the epic post as we now have a look at his actual footy results over the last 2 yrs with a bias toward the most recent...if u get ranked about #2 i woulda thought your last season or two is all that matters becoz thats how we rank everyone right ?...otherwise a guy like Franklin wouldnt even make the top 10... Or should we gift high rankings to others as well despite being down on their own output over recent seasons.

Out of his 5 highest ranked games for the 08 season... 4 were against bottom placed teams...and the 5th came out after they werent even in contention for finals anymore. In other words he played his best footy against the bottom clubs most of the 08 season and hardly played any role whatsoever in the direction and destiny of an AFL season...normally such a high ranking u tend to see influential players...they're all around him in the top so called "rankings" if u care to look..guys that made a serious mark on season 08.

He won his BnF...but at a club that finished 11th Ok pay that but look at the competition in his own midfield..mainly kids just starting to hit their straps in a midfield that didnt exactly set the world on fire last yr...Nick Stevens really his only competition for mature body in an average afl midfield last yr.

The main Melbourne Footy paper didnt even rank him in the top 15 players based on his 08 performance..this comes after what can only be described as a pretty average 07 season with form and injury woes. But i'm supposed to think he's CURRENTLY the 2nd best player in the comp am i ?

Even in here with upteen thousands of opinions he gets ranked behind 12 other midfielders in the BigFooty medal for 2008. Even if you think its not a good indicator it at least shows an undeniable weight of opinion...so no matter how much you hate hearing this i aint exactly Robinson Crusoe on this.

Now lets have a look at a respected medal...the Brownlow. Generally acknowledged as a midfielders medal Judd came 14th in 2007 behind 12 other midfielders...and 10th in 2008 behind 7 other midfielders. So the umps didnt see this #2 ranked performace either. The players didnt see it...umps, journo's and even thousands of bigfooty posters didnt see it...and it was a better season than his 07 season...go figure...so where does a top 3 ranking come from let alone a top 10 ? Even by comparison to other mids the best he was thought of without bias was maybe about 6th best mid/rover from what i can find. So surely any sane person would ask how the hell he could even beat some of the more influential KPF's to a high ranking.

Lets try some stats to see if that helps. The stats say he gets a shitload of contested possessions around the clearances. Other top line mids get them too though. He gives off some good goal assists but then Adam McPhee was ranked ahead of him in 08 for this stat so i dunno how helpful that can be. Total disposals ranked about 23rd, Tackles about 40th (Bentick and Hadley laid more per game at the Blues alone)..so he hasnt been a machine there either, Inside 50's ranked about 30th (Murphy and Stevens pumped it in a LOT more at his club), 5th in clearances which is his absolute strength coming off a lesser 07 season.

He handballs more than he kicks in conjucntion with a lowly ranked inside 50 stat so its its fairly obvious he feels his job is winning the ball but giving it off fast to the ball users. His actual talent seems fairly narrow but he's extremely good at it. He's damn quick ..but once again others are just as quick and some quicker...not an endurance athlete either so dont expect him to pop up in a pocket in the last qtr after running his man around to win the game. Other players actually get criticised for having narrow skillsets and get ranked lower accordingly ..not Judd tho...he's ranked higher for having a more narrow set of skills. The bloke struggles to even mark the ball on his chest and cant contest for a mark over his head at all....so lets face it he's pretty limited in what he's good at compared to others...but what he does do he does damn well..thats clearance work. I know plenty of midfielders that can do the whole bloody lot..Bartel for instance...excellent clearance, excellent kick, terrific mark and even a terrific contested mark, pops up in a pocket to kick a goal, runs his man around...and the guy not only wins his own ball he'll take a risk and go forward himself without the carry of others. Brent Harvey's overall skillset the last 2 yrs makes Judd look average too..plenty of others if u care to look. But sure if the ball is around a contested bounce Judd will likely get a handpass away more than just about anyone.

Maybe he was threatening in front of goal to earn this illustrious ranking ?...nnnnnope...hell some mids kicked 2-3 times the number..even the other midfielders who get a LOT of contested ball similar to Judd had many more pings at the sticks for a result. Some are even able to double as small marking fwds or crumbers coz thats an added skillset they possess..not Juddy tho coz he simply doesnt have the skills to pull it off and we've seen him try so we know it.

What is it i'm missing here ?...why the hell do some people rank this guy anywhere near the top 3 ?..he hasnt even been a top 5 midfielder the last 2 yrs..simply a top 5 clearance player. So how on earth can he even come close to being an overall top 3 ranked player ? In terms of captaincy he was in contention midseason but under his watch his mob went backwards when it actually mattered...but he's gifted the AA captaincy ahead of others ?

Baffles me...so why do the better performed midfilders over the last 2 seasons suffer a lower ranking than Judd and therefore get less respect than they deserve ? Fact is ...they deserve a shitload more respect and certainly a shitload higher ranking. Is a ranking not current ?..is it based on some sort of vibe or past performnce ?

Over the last 2 seasons what has Judd actually achieved other than a pay increase ? No i'm not saying he's somehow an average player...just should be ranked more according to his actual performances and more realistic.

By the looks of it we havent come far from the day when he pinged a pass 2m over Lynch's head on the lead and the commentator said "Lynch ran under the pass". I dont rank blokes on the size of their pay packets.

Honestly...VERY LUCKY TO EVEN BE A TOP 10 RANKED PLAYER BASIS THE LAST 2 YRS.

 

[Hawkers Hero]

Has been the media's golden child for years and can't do any wrong in the eyes of commentators.

Makes me sick sometimes when they ignore clangers (or worse say "thats not 'Juddlike'") and then practically cream themselves when he gets the ball running behind a pack and kicks it to Fevola (who is arguable the best mark on a lead in the comp usually making the delivery look better).

Was a great player in 2003-2006 but nowhere near that now and not deserving of #2 in the list IMO

 

[deadfish]

Couldn't agree more. The most overated player for a long time. Fev should have won the b&f also. Should be nowhere near top 10.

 

[Neville Bartos]

I don't really take anything Sheehan has to write seriously anymore, because he seriously lacks impartiality which is fair enough as we need journalists who aren't robots, but there are so many idiots out there who take his opinions as gospel. I thought he was generous with his assessment of our players, but Franklin is a clear number 2. Anyone who isn't a blues supporter will tell you so, and he could possibly catch Ablett this year considering how young he is. Anyway, don't worry yourself with Sheehan. He's a fair w***er

 

[lethalselbow]

Bear with me on a long voyage....
...
Honestly...VERY LUCKY TO EVEN BE A TOP 10 RANKED PLAYER BASIS THE LAST 2 YRS.

Well put, Bollox. A long and worthy read.

Mike Sheahan, says his top 50 is a prediction list and takes into account pre-season form.

"Chris Judd once was the outstanding player in the game and might be again, while "Buddy" Franklin is the most exhilarating sight on a football field and, at 22, could be anything."

and

"I have placed Judd at No. 2 on the strength of his renewed fitness and flashes of his old brilliance in the pre-season. "

Sheesh... here's the rest of us regarding pre-season as a warm up.

I can understand why he did it. He's putting question marks on Buddy and saying he can't back up last seasons performance. Judd is looking good in the pre-season, so he ranks him up. Not where I'd rank them, but fair enough.

My beef with his top 50 would be Deledio at 41. If you're predicting things for the 2009 season, this guy should be way higher than this.

Only Sheahan's opinion. Be better if there was a group of 4-5 journalists making the list. Then we could really have a good debate.

 

[Bollox]

Mike Sheahan, says his top 50 is a prediction list and takes into account pre-season form.

"Chris Judd once was the outstanding player in the game and might be again, while "Buddy" Franklin is the most exhilarating sight on a football field and, at 22, could be anything."

and

"I have placed Judd at No. 2 on the strength of his renewed fitness and flashes of his old brilliance in the pre-season. "

Sheesh... here's the rest of us regarding pre-season as a warm up.

I can understand why he did it. He's putting question marks on Buddy and saying he can't back up last seasons performance. Judd is looking good in the pre-season, so he ranks him up. Not where I'd rank them, but fair enough.

In bold is the most ridiculous garbage ever written about Judd. In other words that twit isnt even interested in how good he was during the season...or what he did...he's simply saying he ranks the bloke #2 coz of flashes of fitness and form.

IF ONLY OTHERS WERE RANKED THIS WAY

Whilst i understand he's not the only lovestruck gumby that clearly cannot rank Judd on the same basis as others...surely he's got enough experience to know better.

He's actually said he rates others DOWN on the same basis he rates Judd UP.

Nothing more idiotic he could do than to stupidly ruin his own article based on nothing but having a mini-chubby over the bloke.

 

[La Vache]

Brent Harvey's overall skillset the last 2 yrs makes Judd look average too..
Honestly...VERY LUCKY TO EVEN BE A TOP 10 RANKED PLAYER BASIS THE LAST 2 YRS.

I have to say I think these two points are spot on.
Brent Harvey is a top 5 player in the AFL based on his performance in 2007, 2008 when he was probably the most damaging midfielder in the AFL alongside Ablett. Miles ahead of Judd's output.

There are at least ten players in the league who have performed better - Midfielders? Ablett and Bartel for Geelong and Corey has been better at the role Judd excels in. Harvey of course. Forwards? Pavlich, Riewoldt, Brown and Franklin. Scarlett and Cox. Luke Hodge. Matthew Richardson. That's 11 and 1 I thought of later and a strong case could be made for Adam Cooney and in my opinion Cameron Ling has been more influential in these two years.

Sheahan's list is a hypothetical opinion piece so that's fine but like Bollox says if you base any "best in AFL" list on the past two seasons then Judd is maybe barely top 15.

 

[The Zebra]

In bold is the most ridiculous garbage ever written about Judd. In other words that twit isnt even interested in how good he was during the season...or what he did...he's simply saying he ranks the bloke #2 coz of flashes of fitness and form.

...and the fact that before injury, Judd was widely being talked about as well on his way to becoming the greatest midfielder ever to play the game?

Your panties are in a knot over very little. There is nothing ridiculous about predicting Judd will re-establish himself as the best player in the league in 2009. If he was saying Judd has been the best over the last two years, maybe your hysterical thesis would be warranted, but from i can see, he is not saying that.

 

[LordLucifer]

Yeah, he's a very ordinary player and we should get rid of him asap.

Who gives a toss where he is ranked overall, it's where we rank him that is important.

And just for the measure, he's doing a sensational job at Carlton so I couldn't give a tinker's cuss how the rest of the footy world rank him.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Bollox - your points are all very fair. However, I think you'll have to get therapy to find a way to live with the Judd love-in.

Sheahan's list is always subjective rubbish, he makes the rules up for himself and varies them among players to get the list he wanted. And then everyone talks about it - again - so he's happy. Very happy. (As we write in the Herald Sun.) It's just not worth caring about.

The AA issue is seperate and much more relevant - that is supposed to be based on performance in the year (although we all know past performance means an awful lot, like the Oscars). Judd was so good at his best, you could expect him to be the Matthew Hayden of the AA team. He won't be out until he retires or plays such rubbish he just can't be picked. Both seem unlikely.

 

[Sharkey]

I would have Judd about 40 in the top 50 list of players these days.
He is nowhere near the player he was which is sad of course and looking at his physique it seems a lot bulkier, particularly around the rear so I can't really see him getting back that explosive pace off the mark that used to be his trademark.
Sheahan is a grade A tool for having him at 2 in his list.

 

[inyourcool]

Who cares about Sheahan's wankfest - i'm happy Judd's in my team...

 

[morgoth]

Its a subjective list, in reality the top 10 are probably all interchangable as they are all very good players. Views will be clouded by needs (eg Dogs would rate Franklin number one as they need a forward, Pies would rate Ablett or Judd as they need an elite mid).

Judd definately deserves to be top 10, gun mid and if he was injured most of last year he still did pretty well. Anyone who tries to say he is not top 10 is dreaming.

 

[damochandler]

i would have judd in the to 10 every day of the week. he deserves it and he has played well the last 2 years and even with a severe injury

 

[Bollox]

...and the fact that before injury, Judd was widely being talked about as well on his way to becoming the greatest midfielder ever to play the game?

Ok then...lets take your attitude that the last 2 yrs aren't the important part and so Brent Harvey must therefore be very much overrated right now. We better take out his last 2 seasons worth of performances and rank him down lots of notches for you.

Your panties are in a knot over very little. There is nothing ridiculous about predicting Judd will re-establish himself as the best player in the league in 2009. If he was saying Judd has been the best over the last two years, maybe your hysterical thesis would be warranted, but from i can see, he is not saying that.

For a start my panties arnt in a knot over anything..nor is there hysterics..this is simply about the gusset within my panties...it doesnt glisten over Chris Judd like it must do for some. Coz if any sort of common sense prevails then he should be nowhere near anyone's top 3 current rankings based on the last 2 seasons...which is what MATTERS if hype and faith isnt the determining factor.

I understand you're still hurting about overhyping Arrocca simply changing a bank account and u might want to grab a sneak opportunity to salvage a bit of pride by having a go...but dont make it obvious u havent even read what he's written.

here's what he wrote about Judd...

"I have placed Judd at No. 2 on the strength of his renewed fitness and flashes of his old brilliance in the pre-season.
He is a genius in traffic and has amazing acceleration and agility for a player of 189cm. He is taller than Carlton's three-time premiership centre half-forward of the early 1980s, Mark Maclure, and more than a little quicker.
Judd won the Blues best-and-fairest last year after playing the first half of the season half-fit.
He is a great player, but he doesn't kick with Ablett's precision, and he doesn't kick as many goals "

Unsure whether he is becoming senile or not but the McClure reference is obscure at best. What he's written is that he bases this #2 ranking on FLASHES OF BRILLIANCE IN THE PRESEASON AND RENEWED FITNESS....and he's so taken by Judd that its also based on his HEIGHT

Anyone else get ranked this way ? How about Richardson ?...better footballer than Judd last yr and also shown flashes of brilliance. Not just a better footballer than Judd last yr but even a better midfielder...a gun KPF..can ruck at a pinch..and a damn fine defender...can do anything in fact and do it BRILLIANTLY...and just quietly he's a LOT taller than Mark McClure and even Judd. The ONLY talent Judd has by comparison is a far better clearance player.

I've seen some flashes of brilliance from him too...also seen flashes from other good players too such as Bartel ..maybe he's too short to be ranked under the same criteria according to Sheahan ? He's an ex-brownlow medallist and premiership player too isnt he ?

 

[Blues_Man]

Sheehan is an idiot ...see i managed to encapsulate the OP's whole epic novel length thread in 4 words.

Having said that, it appears Swans supporters don't get to see many games up their way, i'm quite happy how Judd is travelling and could care less where Sheehan ranks him ...and i could care even less where a swan supporter ranks him or anyone else for that matter .

 

[QuietB]

I don't have a problem with where Sheehan has rated him - if you are smart enough to get all of these things in your contract (mandatory AA, favoured treatment for AA captain, Guaranteed club B&F, cannot be rated lower than 2 by anyone in the media and can only be rated 2 in exceptional circumstances - ie. you clearly haven't deserved it for at least 2 years, etc. etc.) then good luck to you.

As Carlton supporters have rightly pointed out, this will all be confirmed one way or the other in Judd's performances over this season, he clearly was not the 2nd best player last year and it is pure specultation that he will be the 2nd best player this year.

 

[The Zebra]

Ok then...lets take your attitude that the last 2 yrs aren't the important part and so Brent Harvey must therefore be very much overrated right now. We better take out his last 2 seasons worth of performances and rank him down lots of notches for you.




For a start my panties arnt in a knot over anything..nor is there hysterics..this is simply about the gusset within my panties...it doesnt glisten over Chris Judd like it must do for some. Coz if any sort of common sense prevails then he should be nowhere near anyone's top 3 current rankings based on the last 2 seasons...which is what MATTERS if hype and faith isnt the determining factor.

I understand you're still hurting about overhyping Arrocca simply changing a bank account and u might want to grab a sneak opportunity to salvage a bit of pride by having a go...but dont make it obvious u havent even read what he's written.

here's what he wrote about Judd...

"I have placed Judd at No. 2 on the strength of his renewed fitness and flashes of his old brilliance in the pre-season.
He is a genius in traffic and has amazing acceleration and agility for a player of 189cm. He is taller than Carlton's three-time premiership centre half-forward of the early 1980s, Mark Maclure, and more than a little quicker.
Judd won the Blues best-and-fairest last year after playing the first half of the season half-fit.
He is a great player, but he doesn't kick with Ablett's precision, and he doesn't kick as many goals "

Unsure whether he is becoming senile or not but the McClure reference is obscure at best. What he's written is that he bases this #2 ranking on FLASHES OF BRILLIANCE IN THE PRESEASON AND RENEWED FITNESS....and he's so taken by Judd that its also based on his HEIGHT

Anyone else get ranked this way ? How about Richardson ?...better footballer than Judd last yr and also shown flashes of brilliance. Not just a better footballer than Judd last yr but even a better midfielder...a gun KPF..can ruck at a pinch..and a damn fine defender...can do anything in fact and do it BRILLIANTLY...and just quietly he's a LOT taller than Mark McClure and even Judd. The ONLY talent Judd has by comparison is a far better clearance player.

I've seen some flashes of brilliance from him too...also seen flashes from other good players too such as Bartel ..maybe he's too short to be ranked under the same criteria according to Sheahan ? He's an ex-brownlow medallist and premiership player too isnt he ?

Sheahan does an end of season top 50 ranking. If he ranked Judd number two in that, then you have a point for your rant, because that is based on the performance of the previous year.

This is what he expects from 2009. Are you saying it is ridiculous to suggest that by the end of 2009 Judd could be widely ranked as the number 2 player in the league?

It is not like he is plucking someone out of nowhere. Judd at his best, is the best. And he is basing his prediction on the fact that he is apparently fit and has shown pre-season glimpses that suggest his fitness improvement is not just Carlton spin.

 

[blueblooded]

I'd have to say i'd agree with the OP on this one. I can't see how Mike could rate Judd above Buddy based on last years form, even Fev, Harvey or Simon Black. He had a decent year no doubt and the fact that he was at best 80% fit at his peak last season (that is 100% fact by the way) no doubt impacted his year need to be taken into account also. He couldn't hold his pace consistently last year, he did show some signs that it was still there but it did elude him at times, this was no doubt due to limited pre season and the injury.

He's had a good pre season from all reports, strengthened the trouble spots even furthered and injury permitting should be back to somewhere near his best this season.

Still no doubt in the top twenty players in the league based on last years form, but not in the top five.

 

[lethalselbow]

I would have Judd about 40 in the top 50 list of players these days.
He is nowhere near the player he was which is sad of course and looking at his physique it seems a lot bulkier, particularly around the rear so I can't really see him getting back that explosive pace off the mark that used to be his trademark.
Sheahan is a grade A tool for having him at 2 in his list.

40?! Now you're just being silly.

Judd is easily Top 10 material!

 

[1981]

He was no.1 in the AFL in 2008 for hard-ball gets, and was named All Australian Captain.

I guess the All Aust selectors got it wrong too, right?

Look, I suggest you go through the video tapes and watch carlton's games in 2008, you might notice how Judd is the more times than not the spark that gets the Blues across the line.

I'd also suggest that while Buddy is a freak and might one day be universally viewed as the greatest player ever, right now he has not performed on the biggest day, and maybe just maybe that was the reason Mike had Judd one spot ahead of him.

In terms of gls kicked in the H&A series, if you went by that then surely Fev would be at 4, just behind Buddy?

 

[-CG-]

He was no.1 in the AFL in 2008 for hard-ball gets, and was named All Australian Captain.

I guess the All Aust selectors got it wrong too, right?

Andrew McLeod probably wasn't even ranked in the top 50 when he was awarded AA Captain a few years back.

 

[BlueDW]

The Judd obsession continues! The only thing that is surprising is that Hodgepodge hasnt posted as yet, probably at school???

The OP is correct in that Judd on last years form isnt the 2nd best player in the comp, and wasnt rated by Sheehan that way. Sheehans article this morning is speculating what will happen this year.

FWIW, I reckon that Buddy is the best player in the comp, but it is pure speculation as to who will be come round 22.

Just a few thoughts re your post Bollox, to say that Judd isnt a fantastic leader is a naive, and biased thing to say. To say that he isnt an endurance athlete is just plain stupid!

Go Blues!

 

[V_Townsend]

Sheahan does an end of season top 50 ranking. If he ranked Judd number two in that, then you have a point for your rant, because that is based on the performance of the previous year.

This is what he expects from 2009. Are you saying it is ridiculous to suggest that by the end of 2009 Judd could be widely ranked as the number 2 player in the league?

It is not like he is plucking someone out of nowhere. Judd at his best, is the best. And he is basing his prediction on the fact that he is apparently fit and has shown pre-season glimpses that suggest his fitness improvement is not just Carlton spin.

Spot on

 

[BlueDW]

These types of threads just amaze me. If you look through the list, there are about 20 players that could be argued shouldnt be in there, Thomas ahead of Murphy as an example. I reckon even Pies fans would raise an eyebrow at that one!

But no, C Judd is listed at a number that some fans dont think he deserves, and the world is coming too an end!

One persons opinion mate, which incidentally opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one!

BTW, in previous years brett kirk has been listed quite high in these types of polls. Now without looking at evidence to back me up, I would suggest that his stats dont rate in the upper echelon of the AFL, but noone would argue the difference Kirk makes to his team. But hey, dont let common sense get in the way of a good yarn!

Go Blues!